Yikes... Tough call...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Dartmouth College
21

<p>the wealth thing:</p>

<p>First of all, more than 50% of Dartmouth receives financial aid. That means that more than half of the student body is not wealthy enough to afford a private education without assistance - if you are upper-middle-class, you are wealthier than the median. I doubt the income distribution of most top-tier private schools are substantially different. </p>

<p>Second, wealth virtually never comes up here. It's not like in big-city schools, where you may not be able to afford the same kind of shopping, restaurants, big-ticket entertainment (like expensive concerts or shows), as your classmates or peers. I've heard more times than I can count "I don't even carry money around anymore." In hanover, there are not opportunities to show big income gaps. Also... expensive fashion barely matters when everyone walks around with a big down coat, the same fleece, or windbreaker half the year anyway.</p>

<p>Third, just because someone is rich, does not mean they are conservative or snobby or elitist. There are many students from private schools here, but there are also international students, people from rural public schools, people from city schools, etc. Everyone gets along fine. There is really very little class consciousness.</p>

<p>The race thing:</p>

<p>This is kind of silly. Statistics and percentages about skin color and race are NOT a good measure of diversity. Oh no, Pomono is 40% minority whereas Dartmouth is 50% minority! That means that Dartmouth is way more racist and filled with white supremacists! Come on. If you want to see a good measure of diversity, look at cultural opportunities and campus tolerance. Pomona and Dartmouth are both very tolerant campuses. Dartmouth also boasts a very strong affinity housing program, where people who are interested in, say, Native American or Asian culture can elect to live in special-interest housing. Our on-campus cultural groups, such as Milan, the South Asian interest group, or NAD's, Native Americans at Dartmouth, are also strong.</p>

<p>I don't know much about Pomona, but I'm sure they are also very diverse and tolerant. I don't think you should base your college decision on "wealth/class" or "percentages of diversity" differences between Dartmouth and Pomona because they're not a problem at either school. Other criterion, such as setting, academic focus, or campus vibe should be much more important.</p>

22

<p>Don't waste your time....the kid is a complete waste of space. At least get your facts straight. Boston is only a ~1:30 drive...its 3 hours by a bus that take a circuitous route. How can it be said that "overall [you] are pretty much right" when all you have done is spout unsubstantiated gibberish about the supposed extreme wealth of the student body relative to Pomona's. I would be willing to bet that Pomona has a similar class profile to Dartmouth in almost every respect, including socioeconomically. Also, Pomona is just as expensive as Dartmouth is...and they give out financial aid to a comparable percentage of students...roughly 50%, meaning that the same percentage of students at Pomona are able to afford 44k a year as at Dartmouth. That would certainly seem to debunk your rather dubious claims as to the relative wealth of the two respective student bodies. Even if Dartmouth students come from wealthier families, which I a. don't believe to be true and b. you have not proven to be true, that really has no substantive effect on daily life on campus. I am going to try and stop myself from responding to you, because frankly, its like talking to an annoying child.</p>

23

<p>Look fools, i never said that Dartmouth is full of rich capitalist. All i said, was compared to Pomona, "a lot of the people at Dartmouth are wealthy/upper/middle class; and at pomona, there are way more minorities and people from the lower-income communities". So i dont know why all of you fools are taking the FACTS personally.</p>

<p>If you want statistics again, according to collegeboard.com roughly (estimated) 60% of pomona college's enrolled freshmans are receiving aid, thats about a 10% difference higher than Dartmouth.</p>

<p>I dont know what the big fuss is about. I just wanted to help the poster out, and all i get is haters on here coming out and attacking the post. ** GET OVER IT, PEOPLE WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION!
**

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Boston is only a ~1:30 drive...its 3 hours by a bus that take a circuitous route.

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<p>lol, was that necessary? will that help you prove that dartmouth is closer to a big city? LOL!! i was only going by what the video said.</p>

<p>
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Don't waste your time....the kid is a complete waste of space

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<p>If i am such a waste of space, why do you keep coming back? You obviously like me ;)</p>

<p>
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an annoying child.

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<p>yeah yeah, suck it up wuss</p>

<p>
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Pomona and Dartmouth are both very tolerant campuses.

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<p>did i say they were intolerant?

[quote]
Dartmouth also boasts a very strong affinity housing program, where people who are interested in, say, Native American or Asian culture can elect to live in special-interest housing.

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</p>

<p>did the poster ever ask about what type of housing options are available at dartmouth? lol, those can be found at any other campus.</p>

24

<p>mojo:</p>

<p>Pomona reports on their website that 53% of students receive need-based aid.....</p>

25

<p>whatever, i said i estimated, and its still higher than Dartmouth, which in fact is 48%, not 50%.</p>

26

<p>I dont know why you keep coming back to try to make me feel like what im saying is wrong. I * did * state that i estimated, meaning i did not use a calculator. </p>

<p>Also, i * ** did * ** state that Dartmouth does have "middle class" individuals, which would infer that Dartmouth students may need aid. I also said that compared to Pomona, Dartmouth has a wealthier student population, which is ** obviously true ** by about 5%</p>

27

<p>cablegate -if some of the points mojo makes seem like big concerns to you, suggest you look at the profiles of the most recent classes on the respective websites and also the common data sets of each. It becomse quickly apparent that, based on the student -body profiles, both with respect to academic ability and socio-economic background, you are making a choice between two very similar schools in two dissimilar geographic settings. Hope you have some gut feeling about the two to help you choose. As some have pointed out, once you get to Dartmouth, you realize the "conservative" label unwarranted - far from it. There is probably a difference between laid-back California, hip... and laid-back New England crunchy - but both schools pull students from all over the country and the world (again, check out those profiles) so you will spending your next four years at either place in a setting that is probably more diverse that either of the towns in which they are located - plenty of cross-coast students and everything in between at both D and P. This all does not help your choice of course - but it seems as if you have two very attractive choices. I have to say my child was really concerned D would prove too conservative - that proved to be so very NOT true. And the students are primarily supportive, not competitive against each other and extremely friendly. There is a huge sense of community you rightly observed and I As you stated, a really tough choice - so hopefully there is something that tugs you one way or the other, but you can't go wrong either way.</p>

28

<p>to dispell some of the misinformation...</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think its obvious, and everyone knows that a large portion of Dartmouth's student body is wealthy, that can be generalized about any Ivy. Why? Because its true. Pomona is also given the California "Cal grant" which gives low income applicants money to afford tuition from expensive schools. Dartmouth is private, so obviously, it will be costly for anyone with a low income to attend the school.

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</p>

<p>If some one is low income to the point that they are pell grant reciepients, it is very likely that they will graduate from Dartmouth with little or no debt (for families with incomes under $30,000 there are no loans in the financial aid package).</p>

<p>pomona own website states that there is a loan component (seems to be regardless of income)</p>

<p>In 2006-2007 the standard loan expectation for a first year is $2,600; for sophomores $3,000; for juniors and seniors $4,000. Packaged loans will total approximately $13,600 for four years of study.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pomona.edu/financialaid/prospectives/packagingandawards.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pomona.edu/financialaid/prospectives/packagingandawards.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>A low income student at Dartmouth will not nearly have this amount of debt upon graduation.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I do want to do more than just drink (not trying to promote a stereotype)

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<p>Like ursdad, my D is a junior (and also a greek :eek) and is not part of the drinking culture and has many friends who are non-drinkers. There is plenty to do that does not involve drinking and they have had some amazing opportunites at Dartmouth.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think that going to Dartmouth would be too drastic for someone coming from LA, because the location is so different.

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<p>Considering that the largest group of students are from NY (with the largest group of these students coming from NYC), Ma and california, many have made the conscious effort to step out and try something different.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Anyways, why do you think they did this? Because they want more minorities in the campus. And why do they want more minorities/low income applicants? Because they didnt have that many before!!! DUH!! (logical common sense, i guess some people dont have it)

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</p>

<p>Another gross generalization that most minority students are low income. I happen to personally know a good deal of minority parents at Dartmouth who are doctors lawyers, investment bankers, professors, etc (whose kids also happen to be legacies).</p>

<p>It is one thing to talk percentages but they are relative to the actual raw #s.</p>

<p>From Pomona's common data set:</p>

<p>Nonresident aliens 9 freshmen 40 total
Black, non-Hispanic 36 freshmen 117 total
American Indian or Alaska Native 3 freshmen 7 total
Asian or Pacific Islander 54 freshmen 221 total
Hispanic 39 freshmen 168 total
White, non-Hispanic 185 freshmen 774 total
Race/ethnicity unknown 53 freshmen 218 total</p>

<p>TOTAL 379 freshmen 1566 total</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pomona.edu/institutionalresearch/collegedata/docs/ComDateSet.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pomona.edu/institutionalresearch/collegedata/docs/ComDateSet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>According to Dartmouth's common data for the same period of time:</p>

<p>Nonresident aliens 62 freshmen 228 total
Black, non-Hispanic 80 freshmen 292 total
American Indian or Alaska Native 41 freshmen 153 total
Asian or Pacific Islander 155 freshmen 544 total
Hispanic 58 freshmen 240 total
White, non-Hispanic 639 freshmen 2,348 freshmen
Race/ethnicity unknown 51 freshmen 280 total</p>

<p>1086 freshmen, 4085 total</p>

<p>With the exception of blacks, Dartmouth has more students of color in its freshman class than pomona has in its entire school (and pomona has more people in its school than dartmouth has in its freshman class.</p>

<p>Dartmouth freshmen class
Nonresident aliens 62 freshmen
Black, non-Hispanic 80 freshmen
American Indian or Alaska Native 41 freshmen
Asian or Pacific Islander 155 freshmen<br>
White, non-Hispanic 639 freshmen
Race/ethnicity unknown 51</p>

<p>We could sit here all day splitting hairs but the best thing for the OP to do is to visit to see where he could see himself spending the next 4 years. With the exception of weather both schools probably have much more in common than they have differences. That being said, if you know that you will be coming back to California to live after school, it may be a great thing to spend 4 years being someplace totally different (I know for my kid, she did not want entire educational experience to take place on the island of manhattan, so a much as she would have found her niche at columbia, there was no way she wanted to entertain the thought of attending as she wanted her 4 years to be different).</p>

<p>There are going to be students from various income brackets, While I cannot speak about Pomona, the one thing about Dartmouth students (IMHO) is that they are a pretty self selected group. They are amongst some of the most down to earth people you will every meet, as tilly stated no one talks about their wealth and it is definitely not flaunted and like Tilly, she also one of those people who does not walk around with cash (one of D's friends and sorority sisters comes from a family that has vast wealth; family names on the building at Dartmouth kind of money and you would not be able to pick her out in a crowd no matter how hard you tried because she is one of the most unassuming people you will ever meet).</p>

<p>I agree with Ohmadre that no matter where you ultimately decide to attend, you will get a great education and it will be the best place for you.</p>

29

<p>You could sit here and post information about how many students each school has, but obviously, considering the school's size (pomona is 1/4 of Dartmouth's), Pomona has a larger percentage, not larger numbers, and thats what i was saying initially.</p>

<p>I dont know why you guys are arguing about minorities....i started saying that pomona has more minorities because of the location, you guys cant compare the minority population in LA vs NH. I wasnt even talking about the school you guys need to read carefully before talkin smack, then that foo started attacking me about how dartmouth has a ton of minorities... yeah, um ok.. :rolleyes::</p>

<p>
[quote]
and at pomona, there are way more minorities and people from the lower-income communities, making the campus more open to different cultures and stuff (no, im not saying Dartmouth isnt open, but i am saying** that due to the location, pomona is more diverse than dartmouth is.**)

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</p>

<p>and to what ohmadre said:
[quote]
two very similar schools in two dissimilar geographic settings

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<p>Very similar would be the last word i would use, perhaps you meant slightly or relatively, because they are not VERY similar.</p>

30

<p>How exactly are you even qualified to render a response to this thread? You do not, nor have you ever, attended either of the schools in question. You are just a sophomore at a California community college. Why you thought you needed to weigh in on this subject is beyond me. At most, you know as much about Pomona as I do. I have numerous friends there...and it is possible that it is the same for you. Other than that you have no substantive qualifications whatsoever. As I stated, I am also a native Californian and have a brother who goes to UCLA, so I know quite a bit about LA, California universities, California community colleges, etc. However, I wouldn't have contributed to this thread if I had absolutely no personal knowledge about the matter at hand or any stake in the discussion. You have contributed absolutely nothing of substance to the thread, other than incoherent ramblings and nonsensical, erroneous points, which, every so often, you endearingly punctuate with "foo."</p>

31

<p>damn, you're a big-time stalker. I hope New Hampshire has laws against that...</p>

<p>someone should tell dartmouth about this; this is pretty scary.</p>

<p>This is another reason why the original poster should NOT go to dartmouth...stalkers!</p>

32

<p>mojo:</p>

<p>reading your posts reminds me of the old saying: better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (in this case keyboard) and remove all doubt. :D</p>

33

<p>oh my god, what have i started?</p>

34

<p>Cablegate: Comfort yourself with the reality that there is no bad choice here.</p>

<p>If you wanna stay in Cali and have warm weather, go to Pomona. If you wanna go to a different part of the country and experience some beautiful winters, go to Dartmouth.</p>

<p>My neice in law went to Pomona and loved it. My husband went to Dartmouth and loved it.</p>

<p>Everything else is just babble.</p>

35

<p>Cablegate, while mojo pointed out that in LA it is easy to drive anywhere, I want to add that in Hanover, there is no reason to. The town has everything you need for day-to-day life (two bookstores, a CVS, a hardware store, a library, a post-office, a grocery store, etc.), and Dartmouth social life is pretty much entirely on campus.</p>

<p>Have you visited? I considered one of the Claremont schools but decided Dartmouth was a better fit for me. Then again, I do live in the Northeast. But do take a look before you commit to a decision. Dartmouth is amazing, and students there really love it.</p>

36

<p>thank you all very much for your input. Your advice will hopefully make this decision an easy one. As of now, I am planning on matriculating to Dartmouth because of all the good things I have heard and my urge to be very very far away from Los Angeles and all of its drama. Thanks again to those who have helped me and I hope to see you next year!</p>

37

<p>cablegate:</p>

<p>Congrats on joining the 11's!</p>

38

<p>Yea!! Another one for Dartmouth Class of '11!! There are FOUR from my son's high school!! (including my son.) You won't regret it!!</p>

39

<p>I am an '11 from San Francisco. Like the OP, I was concerned about the drastic transition from a big city to a small town AND from California weather to the harsh winters of New England. I went to Dimensions weeked at Dartmouth last week and LOVED it. I literally fell in love with the campus, Hanover and the people. I am black and found there to be a healthy amount of diversity on campus and I noticed that around town, there were many multi-ethnic friend groups hanging out together. </p>

<p>I don't know anything about Pomona College, but I can tell you that there are a LOT of incoming freshmen from California this year, especially SoCal. I'm sure Pomona is a great school, but I suggest going to Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Also, you don't need to stay in Hanover through the winters! Dartmouth has a program called the D Plan. Classes are offered year around in four quarters. You can take one of those quarters off and find an internship, job, etc. (in a warmer climate.) The main advantage of this is the lack of competition when finding these internships. Most other college students compete for summer internships (at Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs for example.) I met numerous upperclassmen who secured these internships with relative ease in the Autumn, Winter and Spring. This gave them a huge advantage over the Wharton students who practically kill eachother for those same positions.</p>

<p>Also, Dartmouth has an amazing study abroad program. If you don't feel like leaving the country, you can take courses at other top colleges across the US that can be easily transferred and they'll show up on your Dartmouth transcript.</p>

40

<p>Dartmouth is a little more conservative in the context of an extremely liberal institution. My D is conservative and basically doesn't discuss her views because everyone else is so liberal.</p>