You have questions...I may have answers

Parents Forum
1

<p>I stumbled across this site while searching for information about graduate school admissions. Perusing the various fora has left me marveling at the sheer quantity of information while also chuckling at the level of gravity that the college admissions process seems to beget. However, I have noticed a relative lack of information regarding college life, particularly post-freshman year. Given the tortuous journey that I have taken through college, I feel that I have a better grasp of the realities of college life than most and am willing to offer my perspective for anyone who is interested.</p>

<p>In order to establish my credentials, for lack of a better word, here's the "2 Minute Drill" version of my college experience:</p>

<p>I received a full academic scholarship to a top-10 university. After various ups and (mostly) downs, including a withdrawal in the middle of a semester and a brief stint at a community college, I left this school and walked away from said scholarship. As you can imagine, my parents were absolutely delighted by this turn of events.</p>

<p>I proceeded to spend the next half year or so wandering the earth like Kung Fu, crashing on friends' couches at universities across the nation, experiencing life at a variety of schools.</p>

<p>After a brief foray into the job market, I enrolled at another community college on a lark, and applied as a transfer student to a university that is top 50 academically and probably top 5 for partying. Fortunately, they decided to roll the dice with me.</p>

<p>I am now on the verge of graduating summa cum laude with a degree in mathematics. If my research advisor is to be believed, I will be attending a top flight PhD program in the fall. (He swears that I will be accepted at all of the schools to which I applied, despite my "curious" academic history. I am pessimistic by nature, but his enthusiasm seems to be cause for cautious optimism.)</p>

<p>As an additional wrinkle, I have battled a disability throughout my journey. My refusal to acknowledge that I had an issue was certainly a contributing factor to my initial struggles. Although I still refuse to accept any accommodations, I have learned to compensate for and cope with my disability.</p>

<p>In any case, I have truly seen the best and worst that the college experience can offer. After attending 4 schools in 5 years, and enjoying extended visits at a number of others, from Ivies to State U's, my knowledge of college life in a variety of environments is fairly robust.</p>

<p>So, now that we have established that brevity is not one of my strengths, feel free to fire away with any questions that you might have for someone who has taken an absurd journey through the halls of higher education.</p>

2

<p>Wow...what a story. I don't think I've ever read a similar post on CC. So maybe I'll be the first to bite?</p>

<p>You seem to have experienced a wide variety of different colleges and environments through your unique perspective (the scholarship to the top school, staying with various friends, community college, then graduating summa cum laude from a state school, I'm going to guess).</p>

<p>If this isn't too broad or difficult a question to answer, what have you drawn from life at all these different schools; that is, is college really what WE MAKE of it? Are top schools really that different from good state schools, and how does one manage to stay focused and not slip between the cracks?</p>

<p>What do you think caused the transition that put you on the right track - was it finding what you truly loved to do/learn about? Or was it a change in study habits, environment, etc.?</p>

<p>Any random epiphanies or insights that you could offer to seniors going through the college admissions process, or juniors and sophomores doing their college searches?</p>

<p>I think your wisdom might wind up being incredibly valuable to the CC community.</p>

3

<p>Merit money for transfer students: myth or reality?</p>

4

<p>owlice: Unfortunately, I can't really answer your question. My current school was the only one to which I applied, so I never really explored the transfer process. All I can say is, neither I nor any of the other transfer students I know received any merit based money. However, take that piece of information with a massive grain of salt. Things could be quite different at other universities.</p>

<p>itsasmallworld: As you said, your questions are rather broad, but I will do my best to address all of your queries. Knowing myself as I do, my response will probably be prodigious in its length, so you might want to grab a drink before you dive in.</p>

<p>Top schools are different from good state schools, but not radically so. The academic skills of the average student at a top 10 school are demonstrably superior to the skills of an average student at a good state school. No surprise there. However, I have found that the most talented students at a state school are just as gifted as the top 5% at the Ivies.</p>

<p>With regards to quality of teaching, there is no difference between a state school and a top 10 private university. None. Zero. Zilch. This shouldn't be a revelation to anyone since top universities are concerned with research, not teaching, but it bears mentioning. In fact, the quality of instruction at a good community college can be just as good as at a major university. There are a number of truly excellent educators who are at 2 year colleges because they either lack the research chops or because they would rather focus on teaching.</p>

<p>Fun fact: state schools seem to do a better job preparing you for upper division courses than do some top universities. State schools tend to have onerous, inflexible prerequisites for upper div courses. Some (not all) top schools seem to have the following attitude: "Hey, you made it in here, you're smart, if you want to take this course, go for it!"</p>

<p>For example, even though I had never had a formal introduction to mathematical proof, I somehow ended up in Real Analysis as a sophomore at Top 10 U. Needless to say, that did not end well. I have heard similar stories from other students at certain top schools. Beware the perils of assumed knowledge.</p>

<p>As for not slipping through the cracks academically, ask for help when you need it. If you don't understand something, figure it out ASAP. Don't just assume that you'll be able to piece things together when you study for the midterm or the final.</p>

<p>On a related note, once you're in smaller classes, go to office hours. I've seen this mentioned on CC, but it's worth saying again. Even if you understand everything that's going on in the course, if it's a field that you're genuinely interested in, find a reason to get to know the professor. You never know who you might impress and what sort of dividends it might pay down the road.</p>

<p>As for what caused my turnaround, being a bit older had a lot to do with it. I wasn't ready for college at 17, 18, 19, or even 20. Now, at the ripe old age of 22, I finally feel comfortable functioning on my own and taking responsibility for my own actions. During my late teens, my height, intelligence, and quiet demeanor were often mistaken for maturity, when the truth is that I was in no way ready to be on my own.</p>

<p>Another factor that contributed to my academic resurrection was my harrowing flirtation with the job market. Despite a variety of talents and skills, I couldn't even secure an entry level position at a respectable company due to my lack of a degree.</p>

<p>Also, I have received some practical advice and counseling about how to cope with my disability that has been extremely valuable. Now, I can function to the point that no one would ever know that there's anything unusual about me, quite the contrast to my situation 12-18 months ago. This has had a profound impact on my happiness, which in turn has positively affected my academic work.</p>

<p>Switching gears, the social side of the college experience is quite important as well. If you find yourself initially floundering in this area, don't withdraw into a shell as I did. Join a club. Find an activity. Hell, even consider joining the greek system, depending on your school. At my current institution, the greek system is a disaster. Its members fit just about every stereotype you've ever heard about frat boys and sorority girls. However, at many universities, this is not the case. If you find yourself at such a place, you would do well to explore all of the options available to you.</p>

<p>In general, try to have a good time. Don't feel bad about going to a party and having some beers on a Friday night. As long as you don't have anything important going on the next day, don't feel bad about going to a party and having some beers on a Wednesday night. Yes, you're in college to study, but it should also be the best time of your life. Never forget that.</p>

<p>For those going through the college search process, listen to your gut. If you have done your research on a school, visited the campus, and don't like the feel of the place, cross it off your list. Parents, listen to your kids on this point. Irrespective of my other issues, I never should have gone to top 10 U. I had reservations at the time, but allowed myself to be pressured by the parental unit. I am a laid back, take life as it comes sort of person. That school was absolutely the wrong place for me. High schoolers you can back up your decision with a logical, reasoned argument, go where YOU want to go.</p>

<p>That said, if your reason for attending an inferior school is, "my girl/boyfriend is going there and he/she is the love of my life," think again. During all of my travels, I have come across 2 high school couples that even made it into the 3rd year of college together. Let me repeat, 2. The bf/gf line of reasoning is more common than you might think among high school students; don't let it happen to you.</p>

<p>To conclude, college is absolutely what you make it. Find the best school for you, work hard, play hard. I used to be the most negative, depressed person on the planet, but now I have found happiness and success. If I can find the right fit, it can happen for anyone.</p>

5

<p>I almost forgot. The following tip is extremely important. Don't play World of Warcraft or another time consuming MMO while in college. I say this as a former player, so this message is not out of some misinformed or irrational hatred for these games. Even if playing one of these games doesn't cause your academic performance to suffer, it will negatively impact your social life.</p>

<p>I know more people who have had their college careers derailed by WoW than by drugs and alcohol combined. Considering the number of students I know who have hard drug habits and the amount of drinking that goes on at many schools, particularly my current institution, please do not take this statement lightly.</p>

<p>Parents, I'd be more concerned if my son or daughter started playing WoW than if he/she admitted to binge drinking or smoking weed. I know that that sounds ridiculous and that some might vehemently dispute my position on this issue. All I can say is that this sentiment stems from personal experience at a variety of universities. As always, your mileage may vary.</p>

6

<p>Okay let me ask you this, how do you plan to EXPLAIN why you switched so many schools for your PhD programs? They'd really like someone who can actually stick around... I hope your advisor had a plan.</p>

7

<p>Interesting question. One thing that is working in my favor is that I am not going for a PhD in math. The discipline that I am going to pursue in graduate school requires strong quantitative skills, but rarely gets applicants with the sort of mathematical background that I have.</p>

<p>Although my academic record over the past 15 months is superb, the fact that I have been at my current school for a relatively brief period of time is a bit concerning. However, my advisor, who is well known in the field to which I am applying, wrote in his letter of recommendation that my previous record should be disregarded, that my recent work is indicative of my ability, and that I am one of the two or three most talented students that he has had in 30+ years. Regarding my top choice, he said (I'm paraphrasing), "I sent a student there around 10 years ago and she set the world on fire. You have at least as much promise as she did. When I say as much in my letter, that should be more than enough for the admissions committee." He says that his word should go a long way. I sincerely hope he is correct.</p>

<p>Other things in my favor are a GRE score just shy of perfection, research experience that will almost certainly lead to a publishable paper, and an excellent statement of purpose. I did address my past briefly in my SOP, but only to state that I have entirely overcome my past issues, as evidenced by my recent performance.</p>

<p>To be truthful, rejections would not surprise me. However, I am guardedly optimistic that one of my top 2 choices will roll the dice. In any case, I am almost certain to be accepted to the program at my home institution, which is not a bad backup. I wouldn't be too disappointed if I spent 5-6 more years here.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
it should also be the best time of your life

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Rather sad if it is, actually; there is much to look forward to after college, and I hope that, as good as past days are, everyone has their best days in front of them, always.</p>

9

<p>Good point owlice, I should have phrased that differently. I meant to convey that it should be the best time of your life to that point. One always hopes that the best is yet to come.</p>

<p>That said, there are aspects of the college experience that can't really be duplicated later in life. For example, living with one other guy and eight hedonistic girls is going to be tough to top.</p>

10

<p>You sound much like my son and I have real grounded fears that he will bomb out his first year, no matter where he ends up. He is also a total math guy, the most brilliant math student his small high school has seen, but unfortunately does not express himself as well as you do (of course you have 5 years on him and I have always felt things will be better for him when he has matured) </p>

<p>I am secretely hoping he does not get into any of his top choice schools (top Tech schools), but if he does, I have been wondering if it would be a good move for him to defer entering and have a year to grow up mentally and emotionally, as well as to learn to stand on his own. </p>

<p>He has been accepted to 5 schools thus far, decent state Universities, and a couple of small colleges. While these may be "easier" than his top choices, I don't necessarily see that as an advantage. I think if/when he is ready to be who he can be, then it will make no difference where he goes to school. But judging from the way he handles his high school courses (other than the ones he likes - math, physics and music - and those require no work from him, they come so easy) I see that he does not yet understand a work ethic. </p>

<p>Sure it is very possible he would learn it in college, I know I did, and so did my husband who ended up with a PhD from Yale, but I worry deeply about my son, once he is on his own at school. He is just the sort to hide in WoW. Gaming is his escape, even here, when things, like school, get tough, and he ain't seen nothing yet! </p>

<p>I would love to find a school for him where he could just study math and science, but I have not found one. I feel like the other requirements all these schools are bound to have with regard to the social sciences and humanities will kill him. He can't write. He is a deep thinker, but can't get the words out. It is very frustrating, to him and to us, and it is misunderstood by his teachers. They do try to cut him some slack, but they think he is just lazy. However, the act of putting words to paper for him is truly agonizing. I can't believe that this will be met with much "understanding" at the college level, although I have come to believe it is a form of disability (but I have never indicated this to him) </p>

<p>I would be interested in your advice to my son (given you only "know him" from my brief description) Should he go ahead and try a year? (and should we make it clear that this plan is OK?) or should we strongly advise a gap year and deferred enrollment? </p>

<p>thanks for posting</p>

11

<p>WindingRoad, Greatly appreciate you taking the time to post your ups and downs and the post about falling prey to on-line computer game addiction.</p>

<p>It's incredibly helpful for kids on CC to hear about the Do's and Don'ts from peers like you rather than parents. Kids can always brush away parent's advice with the excuse of a "generational gap" but coming from a peer, they are bound to pay more attention.</p>

12

<p>"For example, living with one other guy and eight hedonistic girls is going to be tough to top."</p>

<p>Even when I was in college, I wouldn't have found the above to be an exhilarating experience.</p>

13

<p>after considering my post above, I feel I may have allowed myself to overanalyze. When I think about it, my kid is very outgoing. He rises to difficult challenges all the time, he performs in front of thousands of people and has since he was quite young. His gaming is used as an escape from boredom, if he has something better to do, he does it. I of course worry he would use it to procrastinate and get hooked in. But I am a parent and HAVE to worry, often for no good reason.
So I guess my questions to you should have been, do you see anything that either you or your parents could have/should have done differently to lead you into a better first year (or so) away from home? Or was this part of your "growing up" inevitable? Did you get help for your disability? Or is it something you have grown up enough to accomodate?</p>

<p>And I agree with Northstarmom, LOL, we all have differen ideas of what constitutes an exhilarating experience. But I am glad you found your niche and it makes you feel happy and complete. That is what we all, as parents, hope for.</p>

14

<p>Wisdom = lack of common sense + higher level courses. I hope you are all happy with the generation that will soon assume the position. If you are not afraid..... be afraid, be very afraid. " I am now in control. I have assumed the desired age of control, have experienced Ivy league schools, therefore, the fullness of life, and am willing and able to offer advice to the masses, that can follow me over the cliff called Lemming. Please follow, because... I am wise... Oh, and if I forgot to tell you, I am wise. Please follow me over this cliff. Then you may ask questions, as in, why am I spending time talking about my intelligence and bad experiences because of the screwed up system that does not recognize my lack of common sense and maturity? After all, am I just a test score? I hope not! And if I am, I hope my test score shines in the darkest night forever, so I can be ..... a light? Onward and upward, into the night!</p>

15

<h1>theorymom- A good state U's honors program can be wonderful for a gifted younger student. They have remedial programs for writing skills and plenty of the upper level/grad classes to challenge a student. My son spent his senior fall of HS gaming and running (CC) more than doing some homework he could have done to get top grades, he is good at all academics. Now he's doing well with senior standing in his third year at our flagship U. That top tech school may be the place for grad school for him- we'll see which programs suit his math interests. Your son may have the perfectionist's problem with writing- I hate to write for that reason. PM me if you want more from me.</h1>