<p>A friend of mine sent me a link to this, and I thought it was an intriguing question.</p>
<p>Jeff Opdyke of the WSJ asks the question,"You pay tuition. So do you pick the school?"</p>
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And that raises a question parents and their kids regularly confront: When Mom and Dad are footing the bill, what say do they have in where their kids go to college? Do they have final say? Or is it their role simply to provide counseling, but, in the end, still open their wallets no matter what?
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<p>Mr. Opdyke even consulted his own dad on the matter:
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Given that my dad lived through this with me, I sought his thoughts on what role parents should have. His comments: "Look, you don't have to go to Harvard to be somebody. But it does come down to the fact that this is the parent's money you're spending. You just want to cringe when your child wants to study some useless program at some throwaway school."
<p>If parents pay for their older kid's clothes or meal at a restuarant, do they get to choose which shirt or which entree? In most cases, they don't decide, but they do have some input. My mom wouldn't pay for jeans for me that she thought were extremely overpriced and not worth the money (unless I contributed the difference) or a shirt that she really hated or thought was very inappropriate, but she wouldn't refuse to buy me a piece of clothing just because she would have picked out something different. Sometimes my mom will advise me not to order a certain food at a restaurant that's very unhealthy or she'll ask me not to order a side or a dessert somewhere expensive, but she doesn't choose whether I get chicken or pasta. Parents should advise their older children and when necessary set limits due to cost or some other important factor, but I think parents taking the decision 100% upon themselves is inappropriate, even if they have the power to do so.</p>
<p>corranged, I like your comparison! For us, the first consideration is what we can afford, and within that limitation our kids are free to choose. Thankfully, none of our children are, or have been, interested in "some useless program at some throwaway school." Then again, I can't think of many programs or schools I'd describe in those terms.</p>
<p>I know a woman who pretty much directed her daughter's college search, deciding how far from home she could live (within 6 hours by car), what kind of social environment the school could provide (no party schools), and how prestigious the institution would be (top 50 school only). Her daughter seems happy enough at a Seven Sisters college, but I wouldn't want to have that kind of relationship with my kids.</p>
<p>If I actually feared they'd end up in a useless program at a throwaway school, I'd probably feel differently.</p>
<p>Actually, sorry to be contrary, but I think that the analogy is flawed. While parents don't get to pick the shirt or the entree, they certainly do get to pick the store and the restaurant. They decide whether you can buy the shirt at Ambercrombie or Kohls, or whether you go to the 4-star restaurant or Friendly's. And even once within the approved venue, parents get to choose whether you can buy a pair of pants in addition to the shirt, or whether you can order an appetizer and a dessert.</p>
<p>In the case of college, I think parents have a say in where their money is spent. There are schools at the same price point that are very different. There are some that I would happily pay for and some that I think are a total waste of money for my child because they wouldn't challenge her or the job placement is no good or whatever. However, once she has a range of schools that we've agreed on (including such things as necessary aid for expensive schools), the ultimate choice is up to her. Right now, I'm happy with every school she applied to, so she has her full range of choices once the decisions come in. But that's a conversation we had up front, before the apps even went in. And yes, I told her that I wouldn't pay for some schools.</p>
<p>Yes, nice analogy Corranged.
My S had his own criteria for school, most importantly being in or within close access to an urban area, with good internship/study abroad possibilities for his major. I wanted a school that was affordable or where he would qualify for substantial merit aid. I would be happy to have him attend any of the schools he was accepted at, and so would he.</p>
<p>I, too, thought your comparison was great, corranged. We did offer suggestions, much as we would at a restaurant. 'I've heard the salmon (music department) here is excellent.' Or 'That place gets crowded after eight (It snows there for 6 months.)'</p>
<p>We did put some caveats on our financial support for our kids. The school had to be an actual accredited college/university. Our students had to have, at minimum, a 4 year degree as a goal. They had to assume some financial burden-Stafford loans, unsubsidized-but we paid all accruing interest till post-graduation employment. And failure to complete meant they had to return our investment thus far. (I'm sure we would have had a different approach if our children required different academic goals and we had different finances.)</p>
<p>I'm with corranged too. My husband and I COULD pick the restaurant, and when our son was a baby, we did. Since he's been old enough to give input, we've taken his input. As far as a college goes, it's his choice (though I certainly have my opinions, he's applied to all places that are excellent choices--he couldn't lose with any of them). Of course, parents need to set any financial limits.</p>
<p>Being actually Old as well as in Jersey, I know far more families where the parents picked every piece of clothing, every restaurant, the child's college AND college major.
The biggest problem with parents making decisions without input (and input is just that - not whining, demanding, tantrums, entitlement) is those kids hit college without any training in decision making, planning etc and have little faith in their own opinions. They're easier to take advantage of or bully.
They may go hog-wild acting out since they've never been without external controls on all behaviors.
In my old'jersey world I know a number of women whose parents picked both the college and the major - self semi-included. It has lifetime issues for many women, and we're probably here on CC fretting.
let the kids pick a restaurant...they all want spices, two want raw fish and also quality fresh foods, one likes TGIF type food. when my son works late they deliver food to the office. I asked just last night what he ordered -sushi and falafels! (local Israeli owned kosher place, with something for everyone)</p>
<p>We set the parameters for the decision, but the final choice is up to the kids. We knew we wouldn't qualify for need-based aid, but we still had financial limitations defined -- if out of state and private, then must include merit aid. We weren't paying tuition + room and board in addition to travel.</p>
<p>When it came time for the final choice for S1, we offered a strong recommendation for what seemed to be the best choice. (It actually isn't the highest ranked school, but we liked it the best.) If he'd really lobbied for one of the other choices, we'd have gone with his decision. We'd already agreed to pay for an education, but we didn't specify how he'd get it.</p>
<p>We would never dictate what major or career plans they should have. Frankly, I don't want to hear them whine for the next 40 years about how they really wanted to do X, but we made them do Y. I've always liked the notion of natural consequences, and this seems like a good time to continue in the vein.</p>
<p>I'm with Chedva on this. I would hardly compare picking out of a menu or buying jeans with a college selection. The only input I have as far as clothing is concerned, is that they should not be revealing. (well, boxers may be revealed!!) Food....bah....deal with what you picked. </p>
<p>Fortunately we have not had any issues with where our kids have applied, and are really happy with the fact that both have initiated discussions with us regarding the choice of schools/majors. They seem to be making wise and thoughtful decisions, and we are happy to provide guidance. There were some conversations that we also had upfront before the application process was begun. And yes, there are places that we would not agree to let them go.</p>
<p>Obviously this is not going to be an issue with most CC parents, because of who our students are in the first place.</p>
<p>It is perfectly okay IMHO for parents to tell their children the amount they are willing or able to afford on their college education. In our case it was $19,000 plus room and board. After that it was up to our son to decide where to attend and what to study. The important thing for any parent to do however, is to communicate any constraint early on, preferrably prior to senior year.</p>
<p>The financial parameters we set encouraged him to do hours of "research" finding colleges which offered the degree program he was intending to pursue at the time(compsci). He cast a wide net from our in state flagship university to a tiny LAC in the hinterlands of Pennsylvania. He carefully read every piece of college mail that consumed our mail box-from the likes Saint Scholastica in Minn(?) to Kzoo, Grinnell, Oberlin on the one hand to CalTech, Penn and Columbia on the other.</p>
<p>In the end he applied to the state flagship U and several mid-level LAC's as financial safeties as well as his top choices Oberlin, Case and Rensselaer.</p>
<p>I think the decision to not just open up the wallet to him was a wise one for OUR family. It gave him incentive to deeply explore and consider what he deemed to be important factors in the college he would be attending for 4 years of his young life. It demonstrated to him that important decisions usually do involve constraints which necessitate compromise. And the best lesson he learned was that we considered him an equal partner in making his college choice work and that we had confidence he would succeed.</p>
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While parents don't get to pick the shirt or the entree, they certainly do get to pick the store and the restaurant. They decide whether you can buy the shirt at Ambercrombie or Kohls, or whether you go to the 4-star restaurant or Friendly's.
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These are both monetary concerns, which should of course be taken into account by the whole family. My siblings and I have just as much say in choosing where to eat as my parents, but we also only suggest places in an appropriate price range for our family. That's something with which older children should be familiar and should factor into their decisions. My parents were generously open to pay full price at any of the colleges I got into; however, I ended up getting a merit scholarship at one of my top two schools, so when considering my options I made sure to factor that into my decision. Seventeen year olds should be aware of their family's financial situation, and at this point in their lives, they should be able to take that into account in all of their decisions that spend their parents' money.</p>
<p>Very interesting article. Thanks for posting, and it's very topical with decision time looming. I'm sure there will be at least a few students posting messages asking for help in persuading their parents to accept and fund their choice of college.</p>
<p>When our sons were young, we thought we made a practical decision in that we would pay the cost of an instate public education, allow them school choice, and they were to pick up any costs above our instate bill (we are very lucky to live in VA, so we knew they had plenty of spectacular options). </p>
<p>However, when it was time for son #1 to decide on a school, we did change our minds, a little. We didn't want to narrow his search with the restraints that seemed so practical years ago, so we did encourage him to consider several schools, including out of state privates. The one caveat was that there had to be a compelling reason to chose a costlier school, and depending on the total bill, son might have to take on some student loans. Not huge loans, but enough that if he chose a school three times the cost of our instate univ, he would also have a larger commitment to the total cost of that choice. </p>
<p>Over the years, my husband has changed from being cheap, to thrifty, to practical. (:)) It was hard to imagine that we'd willingly pay more than the cost of a school the caliber of UVA, but when it came down to it, we felt our son had a terrific head on his shoulders, and we didn't want to stand in the way of his academic dreams (as long as they were practical ;)). We didn't limit his choices, but I also don't believe we would have funded a higher priced school without a compelling reason to do so.</p>
<p>Lucky for us, his heart was at UVA in a big time way, so we really never had to cross that bridge. Love living in VA!</p>
<p>The restaurant analogy is also apropos in that before you get to the restaurant with an 18-year old kid, you will probably already have discussed food. You will have told them about the benefits of olive oil over lard, the benefits of salmon over short ribs, the benefits of brown rice over white. You will already have realized that no matter how many times you tell them fruit is good for them it just doesn't work for that kid's body chemistry. Maybe the kid eats kale and brussel sprouts instead:).</p>
<p>So over the years, with any luck your kid internalizes some of your values, you both come to terms with the places where you agree or disagree on nutritional priorities, and you've learned as a parent to steer them clear of Alfredo sauces if they are lactose intolerant....and maybe that it's OK if they eat dessert because all their other choices are pretty healthy.</p>
<p>Jumping off a building would be a student personally taking on huge debt. Other than financial risk, I don't really see a kid picking one school over another as dangerous.</p>