<p>How did you know your child had "it"? When and what gave your child the confidence needed to go to pursue a career in music? Do you compare your child to other children? Does your child just have a certain swagger that just can't be missed? Is it the contest wins? Or ?</p>
<p>I guess I want to know how in this time of angst (audition season) how do you give your child the confidence to compete. And when do you gently suggest a new field of study? Sometimes there’s passion but no talent. Is passion enough?</p>
<p>Passion alone won’t do it, but neither will talent alone. You have to have both. But the talent may be an underlying talent that hasn’t been developed - listen to the professionals you child works with, they will be a better judge of the underlying talent. Sometime the talent might not shine through as obviously because of the opportunities that are available</p>
<p>Our kiddo did competitive music camps, local competitions, the local youth orchestra, but what helped us to make a decision was scheduling lessons with every big name individual who came through our town starting in tenth grade. At every lesson, our child was encouraged to ask them point blank “Do you suggest that I continue to pursue a career in music?” If those people had said no, then he would not be pursuing the current path. Also, we literally have to ask our child to stop practicing. Getting him to practice hasn’t been an issue since perhaps third grade.</p>
<p>I don’t like to compare too much. My daughter plays a few instruments but she’s going with voice as her primary instrument. I think she has a lovely voice, and she has a tremendous amount of potential, but she certainly doesn’t sound as refined and trained as some other students we know in her age bracket. I think that’s okay. She just started voice lessons and her teacher was extremely enthusiastic about her, and he wanted her to be his student as much as she wanted him to be her teacher. </p>
<p>If your child is passionate about, they should be putting in the work that will increase their ability. Talent means nothing if it isn’t developed.</p>
<p>In our case, we literally had no idea. There were no competitions in his instrument and, while he seemed to be pretty great locally, how would he compare on the national stage? On the advice of the folks here, he did a summer audition-in camp, where he was placed in the highest-level group. We also asked his local teachers/band leaders and asked them to be honest: can he compete? And they told us he could make a living on his instrument. That gave us the confidence to let him apply and audition in the first place. I can’t tell you how much the people on this forum helped us!</p>
<p>A question that seems easy on the surface, full of all kinds of nuances and just plain guesses…</p>
<p>I agree totally that to make it in music, you need both talent and passion, and also a thick skin. It can be a brutal business, and passion also means believing in themselves, and it can be hard. You are a talented instrumentalist, and suddenly you see videos of these kids your age or younger, who are playing XYZ concerto or whatever, and it is like holy crap. You have been the star of your school music program, done all state, then you go to a high level music camp or get into a pre college program, and start seeing how good some kids are. You have been studying with a local music teacher, who has been telling you how good you are, and then you move to a teacher who is reputed to be really good, and you realize that the prior teacher at best was limited. With music, the old saw that no matter how good you are, there is always someone better, is really, really true, and I think it is not a bad idea that while trying to boost a kids confidence, it also is important that they understand that, that the world may be very different than X state All State or Y youth orchestra, etc.</p>
<p>Okay in less rambling fashion, here are my thoughts:</p>
<p>1)If you think your kid is really good, but you are kind of a big fish in a small sea kind of place, I highly encourage trying to find out what is out there. Find teachers with reputations and ask them to do an evaluation on the kid’s strengths, weaknesses, etc, having that feedback is so critical, because among other things, a local teacher may be a great teacher, but not know what is out there in the ‘wider’ world. </p>
<p>2)Use what resources you have to get the kid exposed to music in their field. This can mean local orchestras or whatever, it can mean programs like all state, and it also can be, finances permitting, summer programs that attract high level students. There the kid will prob see where they fall in the mix, and will start seeing if they measure up. It isn’t perfect, because they could get discouraged when they see the kid who has won competitions and such, or seems so good…key there, is to tell the kid rather than get despondent about the better kids, use that to challenge yourself. My S faced that with the pre college prep program he was in, saw some unreal kids on his instrument, but he also saw he wasn’t the worst, and in some ways he had attributes many of the ‘top’ kids didn’t have. </p>
<p>3)If you can, find ways to have the kid meet working musicians. Being in the NYC area and with the programs he was in, plus his teacher, he was exposed to the reality, what it means to make it. If you can’t meet musicians, use the net and research what they are saying, in some ways it may be more valuable than what teachers say, teachers can have a focus on the almost unattainable, whereas working musicians tend to focus on the possible.</p>
<p>4)In terms of nervousness with auditions and such, I think the biggest help there will be if the student has had the chance to meet with some of the teachers at the school before doing auditions (not always possible). This happens with sample lessons, or master classes, or from summer programs, and it is valuable. If they are encouraging, it says something, one thing I have learned is they tend not to beat around the bush, and it can be valuable. </p>
<p>My S got upset during his audition cycle with his results at one school, and he dismissed a sample lesson he had with a really well known teacher, who was really positive when we mentioned that, said “oh, he was just being nice”…we told him this is a guy who kids are dying to study with, why would he say stuff like that if he didn’t have to? Later on, my S learned a couple of people he knew did sample lessons with the guy, and all he said was “thanks for seeing me”…it dawned on him that with these kind of teachers, they don’t need to beat around the bush nor will they, they tend to be very honest. (In my S’s case, ended up in the guy’s studio,…).</p>
<p>5)When looking at other kids who are better, be careful, because musicianship means a lot of things. It is one thing to be realistic, but looking at the kid who has won competitions, etc and saying “I am doomed” is shortsighted, because admissions depending on the teacher is not just about technical capability, which a lot of competitions stress IME (at least in my S’s area). Admissions panels also look for musicality, musical expression, there are a load of kids auditioning in the strings world, or example, who have incredible technical skills but play like they are doing playback from a CD, no interpretation, little musical feel or expression, etc…so despairing because X just won Z competition means little quite honestly, unless you are auditioning in some program where X is auditioning and they have 1 slot, it is likely he represents an outlier (assuming Z competition even means anything; my S lost to a kid in the national finals of a competition a couple of years ago, said kid is going to the same program my S is in, and they are in very different studios, the other kid is in one of the less strong studios…so you never know:). </p>
<p>In the end, I agree with others in that the key is benchmarking yourself realistically and that requires realistic assessments, which is why sample lessons, master classes, summer programs and so forth can be so valuable, because you find that out in the real world. A lot of kids are told by other people “Oh, you have such a great voice, you should be a singer” or “Oh, you are so great on the violin, you are going to be great”, and to be honest, most of that is sincerely given, but has little meaning, because the people don’t know. Getting into music programs, getting in with teachers, and then making it in music isn’t American Idol, it is a process with a lot of gatekeepers, a lot of hard work, and many ways to fail, so seeing the reality means trying to see what is out there.</p>
<p>Put it this way, my S is in a studio with some incredibly talented kids, I mean they have won top level international competitions, some have artists rep already, yet they doubt themselves, so that goes with the territory; My S is nowhere near that, yet he is going ahead because he has had enough exposure to the real world to know their path is not his, and having talked to and been around musicians ‘making it’, he understands those kids and his path are different, and that is the big key, looking at what is out there and seeing if there is a path that fits who the student is. If you kid is a soprano who desires to sing at the Met, sees that as her path, the decision will be quite different if she has her heart set on doing other kinds of singing. If someone sees themselves as a working violinist, willing to patch together gig work, sub work, regional orchestra work, teaching, rather than someone seeing themselves as the next great soloist, there are different expectations of whether “I can make it”, so having a vision of what you wish to do is as important as seeing as good you are, because the two have to mesh.</p>
<p>Put it this way, a lot of the hotshot kids, who think they are the cats meow, who get in with the top teachers at the top schools, fail miserably, because their expectations were high and when it floundered, they found out what they had was ill suited to making it ‘other ways’, attitude wise and also preparation. </p>
<p>In the end, it is always a leap off the deep end in doing music in one sense, and it is the same for everyone, so if the kid has persevered through, been exposed to the reality of what people are like, has gotten assessed by those in the know and get encouragement, and they still want to do it, go for it…and if it doesn’t work out, there will have a lot of unique skills few outside music have IMO.</p>
<p>We also had no idea, because our son was interested in composition. What made the difference was going to a good summer program, where he learned a lot and found that he was competitive with the other students there.</p>
<p>ditto what musicprnt said. right on the mark!!! Excellent!!!</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses. I am so happy to have found this site. I was really walking around with little knowledge about schools. We met a famous opera singer at the Met last year and she said we need to follow the teacher but what teacher!? lol She made me feel like my daughter’s teacher was a nobody because she didn’t know her. lol She did give us a great backstage tour of the Met though. I think my daughter’s voice is beautiful. She always gets great praise but when I listen to other kids her age who have reps they don’t sound so great. But they win the contest anyway. Thanks all.</p>
<p>On the nose musicprnt. I, however, would have ended your post with, “Here endeth the lesson.” It was worthy of it.</p>
<p>You don’t know, because it’s not your job to! You’ll always hear on CC to get evaluations from other professionals in the field, and that’s great advice because another pair of ears is valuable, but remember that that person has just a few minutes in which to form that opinion so it’s just that, an opinion and not the gospel.
Don’t compare young voices against each other, please. They mature at different rates and different fachs will be ready sooner than others; i.e. a light lyric soprano is usually ready to go quite a bit earlier than a mezzo or Puccini soprano just because of the weight of the voice. It was foolish of anyone to make you feel as if your D’s voice teacher was a “nobody”- there are many teachers out there that can be great for a young singer and it’s impossible for one person to know all of them. Also, programs that might have been great when that person was in school might have changed radically and faculty can and does move around.
A word of caution about comparing your D with others at competitions and criticizing those who win; keep it to yourself. We all know that there are a lot of factors that can influence a win (and some of them don’t involve talent), but that’s going to be the case all the way through life if your D pursues a career in music. And since that world is very small you’ll be running into the same people everywhere you go-and you never know who they might be connected to or when you might need a favor. Smile, be polite- you don’t have to be friends with everyone- but wait until you’re in the car to discuss what you think. It’s fine to “set up camp” and read in a corner away from others on audition day, but my D ended up being good friends with some of the kids who approached her on those days. They showed up at the same school and some in the same studio, and I sat through 4 years of performances with the parents I met during audition season.
If this is the path that your D wants to take, these next months ware going to be full of travel, fun, nerves and tension, but you can make some wonderful memories on the trips to the various schools. Her teacher will prepare her and you are there to make sure that she gets rest and stays healthy and as calm as possible and be a general sherpa porter for coats, boots, music, snacks and water bottles!
As for the “talent vs passion”, you’ve gotten great answers here. Obviously, a desire is not enough on it’s own- this is a performance career, after all. But a kid with a great voice who doesn’t “want” it won’t make it either. Look on any stage: some people just draw your eye where others may have great voices but are about as exciting to watch as a bale of hay. It’s an entire “package” and is always a work in progress! Sometimes, a program just doesn’t need any more of a certain voice type, or might be looking for a specific type to double cast with another. If they have 16 " -ina and -etta" sopranos, taking on more wouldn’t be to their advantage, but they might really need pants role mezzos or lyric tenors because they’ll be graduating a bunch. To put it succinctly, it can be a crap shoot! There is one well known conservatory who has their operas planned out years in advance, so they admit with an eye to students who fit into their master plan- not to say that they wouldn’t take someone who is outside of those parameters, so all a kid can do is apply to places they like and do their very best during the 15 minutes they have in that audition room.</p>
<p>OP - I was right where you are a few years ago. I started this thread and got some really excellent advice: </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1112903-how-do-you-know-if-your-kid-has-talent.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1112903-how-do-you-know-if-your-kid-has-talent.html</a></p>
<p>We followed a lot of it & basically just tried to give D lots of opportunities to explore her options. I’m happy to say that right now, as a HS senior, she is having very good experiences at her college auditions & sample lessons & her confidence is growing that she has made the right decision to follow music, though her path changed from musical theater to classical voice. It felt like a bit of a gamble at the time to put so much time & money into it, but oh so worth it to see how she’s grown & progressed and now is having success in a difficult arena. So exciting (=stressful!) and wonderful.</p>
<p>What a great question!!! . . . and what great answers. I have asked this myself many times and am still pondering but have some insight. Of course there is raw talent, also passion. I think back at my kid and it has always seemed that he was born to do this. Still it takes an entrepreneurial spirit, a thick skin, a real sense of self-efficacy, a certain drive and belief . . . My kid is one who somehow seems to land jam side up and make things happen. I told his teacher this summer that I had NO IDEA how good he is or how good he needs to be. I had my mom instinct of how good he is but not really stacked up against “competition”. It is so much harder for a parent than when you have test scores and GPA and known activities to list. How do you quantify art and creative spirit? At some point I think it is a leap of faith. I am trying to have it be an educated leap of faith but it is still a leap I think.</p>
<p>I love the responses. I posed this question more as a philosophical query than a belief I actually have. I think my daughter was meant to sing. And although she doesn’t win every contest she’s always right up there. She’s learning and growing. And yes this is a leap of faith. I don’t know how many times I have wanted to ask, “Don’t you want to be a doctor instead?” lol But I know she would not be able to breathe if she could not sing. So here we are hoping that others see and hear what I see and hear and give her admission to their friggin schools already!! And the stress!</p>
<p>DD is a freshman music major in vocal performance. She is extremely intelligent & she originally chose another major with music as her minor. At her audition they begged her to major in music. After much consideration she is majoring in music & she says every day that she loves it. She takes 18 hours a semester & it is tough but it is her calling.</p>