<p>Concerning football, it might not be the best thing even if it gets them a scholarship eventually. Did anyone see the special on ESPN about the Purdue study showing their football players lost a significant amount of cognitive ability because of the hits? It’s pretty scary stuff.</p>
<p>
Not if your IQ is low. About as many people score 300 or less as as score 730+ on the three sections, according to [SAT</a> Percentile Ranks](<a href=“http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf]SAT”>http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/SAT-Percentile_Ranks_2011.pdf). Members of the 730+ club are much more likely to post on CC than members of 300- club, so it is easy to get the relative size of the two groups wrong.</p>
<p>Where do these tutors come from, and do they have any background in working with learning disabilities? I know people who spent thousands of dollars, and put their kid through hours of tutoring with a famous company, and the kid made only minimal progress because the tutors did not have the skills needed to work with that kid. Once the kid had received a competent evaluation through the public schools and his weak areas were identified, he got much more effective help for free from the school district.</p>
<p>I apologize that I have not read the 5 pages of posts, so I may be repeating what others have said. </p>
<p>What is wrong with becoming a plumber, electrician, carpenter, construction worker, or personal trainer? These contruction-type workers make a lot of money, even more if they are in a union. They are usually in good spirits, getting exercise. Some plumbers make more money than some physicians. And many personal trainers that I meet are happy with their lives. They must get endorphins from working out so much. When I was in high school, it was anticipated that a certain percentage of the class would go to college and a certain percentage would go to vocational or trade school. Schools these days try to push 100% to college and it is misguided and unrealistic. Your career goals and your brother’s career goals do not need to be similar in any way. </p>
<p>Additionally, try to convince your brother to get a psychoeducational evaluation. Public schools are required to offer it for free. Or you can get a private evaluation, but they cost $700-$4000. In the psychoeducational evaluation, they determine where he might have some learning or processing problems and ways to address these issues. If he has any processing problems, it would be good to learn skills to cope with these problems.</p>
<p>Wow, OP, you need to get your life (if you have one) before you worry about your brother’s…</p>
<p>"imo, military is the best option. it might even “shape him up”. "</p>
<p>Sounds like someone who never served in the military.</p>
<p>I’m going to echo what earlier posters have said, that the military should not be your catch all option for a kid who has slipped though the cracks instead of taking the time to get a proper diagnosis. Lets just let the military deal with him! That attitude can be harmful to the young man and the people he’s serving with. Depending on the actual diagnosis (and we’re all guessing here with little information) he could end up with a dishonorable discharge which will follow him forever and hinder his employment opportunities. It doesn’t mean that the military will never be an option, but I urge the OP not to push this option instead if finding a proper diagnosis first. </p>
<p>Based in the tutoring received I’m guessing there is a budget for outside testing with a private neuropsychologist and a complete physical. I can not stress the importance of this enough. They will be working for your family, not the school system (which is probably budget strapped). They will pinpoint specific learning disabilities, etc. The OP is very, very quick to dismiss things beyond ADHD or LDs and that is short sighted. A neuropsychologist with proper testing will make the diagnosis and help explain the parts of the brain effected and why it’s happening. It’s the most concrete, tangible, explanation you’ll ever get from any other diagnostician and I believe will be very helpful is getting the OPs parents onboard to acceptance.</p>
<p>I understand people who think that ‘this ship has sailed’ because he’s so late in school. I disagree. We are students of one form or another throughout our lives and understanding the way our brain works, our strengths and difficulties can be very empowering to someone who doesn’t learn well in a traditional setting. It will guide himin the future how he approach learning new things with less frustrations, where without the information he may never even try at all, thinking its just too hard and not worth his effort. This could hold him back all his life from any number of things in any profession. If nothing else he deserves to know, and have the acceptance of their family, that they are wired differently not simply lazy.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. The military uses a standardized test, the ASVAB, as part of its hiring process. Someone with a 900 SAT score will probably not do well on the ASVAB.</p>
<p>[ASVAB:</a> The AFQT Score](<a href=“http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/afqtscore.htm]ASVAB:”>http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/afqtscore.htm)
In fact, the AFQT score is derived from only four of the nine ASVAB subtests: Paragraph Comprehension (PC), Word Knowledge (WK), Mathematics Knowlege (MK), and Arithmetic Reasoning (AR).
The AFQT score is the most important ASVAB score, because it determines whether you can join the military service of your choice.</p>
<p>Concordance tables for ASVAB-SAT are here: <a href=“http://www.redfield.k12.sd.us/high_school/scholarships/ASVAB%20to%20ACT%20score%20conversion.pdf[/url]”>http://www.redfield.k12.sd.us/high_school/scholarships/ASVAB%20to%20ACT%20score%20conversion.pdf</a></p>
<p>Assuming a 600 combined CR + Math, that comes out to an AFQT score of 21-30, or Category IVA, which is “you might get in with a waiver, but otherwise not” range.</p>
<p>I’ve been back at school these past few days, but I told my dad that my brother probably isn’t fit for college because of a learning disability, and he pretty much told me “Everyone is different. Not everyone is smart. But he needs to at least get a bachelor’s degree (as if this can be attained that easily) unless he wants to work minimum wage his entire life and go no where.” I just find it funny how casually he said that my brother needed to at least get a 4-year degree… </p>
<p>My brother also thinks that he doesn’t need any extra help and tutoring. I asked why he was complaining about getting tutored and told him he needed all the help he could get and he said he could manage without it.</p>
<p>Also, like someone brought up about the quality of these tutors and if they were even qualified to teach someone with apparent learning disabilities, and the answer is no. He goes to this “test prep” center that specializes in preparing for the SAT’s, reading, writing, and other standardized exams like the ACT and a couple of AP exams and general homework help. Most of the tutors there are recent college graduates (usually from a highly respected college). From what I noticed, it’s mostly kids who are already smart as hell (with overbearing parents) who go there… kids who have a 2100+ SAT, who want a 2300+ (I’m not kidding). In other words, it’s for smart kids to get even smarter. I noticed this a long time ago and told my parents and they said “this is better than nothing”. </p>
<p>This is so overwhelming and seems like a lost cause (this year at least). No one is listening and everyone has their own agenda. The plan is for my younger brother to graduate high school and enroll in community college for a few years. My brother absolutely refuses to “stay home”. He’s alright with going to community college, but he doesn’t want to stay home. He told my parents he would go to a community college 2-3 hours away (in a college town of a bigger college)… I don’t know where he got this idea or who has been talking to… </p>
<p>I don’t know right now if it’s just a bluff or whatever, but I don’t know how in anyway he would go to a community college that far away. He doesn’t work and has no money. He doesn’t have a car. How is he going to pay for rent? Or food? Why would he go to ANOTHER COMMUNITY COLLEGE 2-3 hrs away and pay all of that extra money when there’s a community literally 1 block away (that is one of the top community college programs in the nation, I might add)? </p>
<p>I tried to talk to him over break and every time, I brought up the idea of him staying in our home town and maybe going to community college for a few years. He’s gets all obnoxious and rude, saying he doesn’t want to “stay with these bit/ches” (referring to my mom and dad) and he wants to move out – and this is all fine and dandy, but he literally has no means of even doing this… pretty sure it’s MTV and them glorifying the partying lifestyle (Jersey Shore… to name one).</p>
<p>Mental illness (along with learning disabilities) is a very touchy subject. To the people that thought I was “trolling” that my brother scored in the 900s on the SAT’s or to the guy that said he didn’t think this was possible (unless he deliberately tried to score that low), that is exactly what I’m talking about. I mean, how can you score that low? How is that possible? You and I could probably score higher than that if we were only given 5 sections to do and left the other 5 sections blank… I’m starting to now realize that (someone earlier said this) people with learning disabilities struggle to do things that you and I find very, very easy. It’s quite frustrating sometimes at how slow people with learning disabilities can be (just DO IT… it’s right in front of your face and the instructions are RIGHT THERE… you just want to jump out of your seat and scream because of how easy the task/problem is… you guys won’t ever understand unless you’ve been in my shoes).</p>
<p>Time is the only thing that is going to answer most of these questions. I can’t do it anymore… my brother failing out of college is probably the only way, my parents are going to be convinced that he has learning disabilities and won’t ever succeed in college. </p>
<p>By the way, I wrote this in the OP, but no one really touched it… What do you guys make of my brother refusing to help out around the house? Not calling companies whenever my dad needs something or has a general question? What about not setting up the printer? What about going 1-2 months without internet because my brother wouldn’t re-configurate the modem? What about not being able to use the garage for 1-2 months because he wouldn’t fix the re-configuration the garage to open/close it? How is he going to be able to going into trade, if he can’t even do these things?</p>
<p>He wants to do all of these adult things, but he’s highly immature. He has no sense of responsibility or accountability. My mother shouldn’t be hounding him if he’s done his homework everyday. There comes a point where if a kid simply doesn’t care and won’t help himself, there’s nothing you could really do. You either care or you don’t… and as a SENIOR, you expect him to have all of this figured out by now. He has slept walked through high school (seemingly) doing the bare minimum to pass his classes.</p>
<p>Not sure who is more unrealistic- your brother or your parents.</p>
<p>As for resetting /reprogramming the modem or garage door opener- has anyone taught him how to do this or is he expected to know how or figure it out on his own? And if he has been shown, can he remember it? These are skills he may not have.</p>
<p>onhcetum, Did you talk to the school/ your parents/ your brother about getting a psychoeducational evaluation? I didn’t address some of your questions because they’re really not your business nor is there much you can do about it. It’s not your business how your parents pay for him to attend community college. It’s not your business if he doesn’t help around the house. Those are things for your parents to deal with and perhaps you will deal with them with your children someday but you don’t have the power in this situation. I am not saying he shouldn’t help around the house. Frankly, it is very difficult to judge his limitations, your parents’ parenting or the validity of what you say. I don’t know if he knows how to reconfigure the modem or the garage door opener; I also don’t know why your parents can’t do it. I know what I’m saying doesn’t seem fair-- but I have seen non-disabled siblings get angry over the resources spent on their disabled siblings and the truth is that parenting is full of tough choices. To many of us parents, we try to be ‘fair’ by offering our children, to the best of our ability, a plan to prepare for life. That may require a lot more resources for one kid than it does for another and the non-disabled kid may feel like the disabled kid isn’t doing as much as he/she can. (And sometimes the disabled kid <em>isn’t</em> doing as much as he/she can but parents don’t realize that and let the disabled kid skate but, once the disabled kid is your brother’s age, that is pretty ingrained in him and I doubt a good speech will get him to work differently or harder-- even assuming teachers have taught him problem solving skills.) </p>
<p>Anyway, our community college has remedial courses. He would have to take the Compass exam and I suspect he won’t place into a full load of credit-bearing classes. If he attends cc, the remedial courses will serve him well no matter what his course of action because it may improve his basic skills. Of course, it adds time to any possible degree or program and he won’t progress into credit-bearing courses until he passes the remedial classes. As you know, the bare minimum in college is much more than the bare minimum in high school and, if he doesn’t step up his performance, he may not be at cc for very long. Your father may not know that because he doesn’t have a clear understanding that getting a U.S. high school diploma does not mean you are prepared for the challenges of colleges. I suspect in many countries it does. It doesn’t here and it sounds like he will soon find that out when your brother takes the placement exams at the community college.</p>
<p>No, he hasn’t been taught this, but there’s a booklet and basic follow the instructions. He just absolutely refused to do it. He never bothered to try. He simply said he wasn’t doing it.</p>
<p>Oh, one more thing: please look into your state vocational rehabilitation department. Since your brother received special ed services, someone in the school system has testing on him and your parents may have a diagnosis, even if it’s old. He may need new testing to access services but this department may have some ideas.</p>
<p>I guess military should be the best option for your brother and it will discipline him as well as improve his attitude.</p>
<p>Sincere question-- can your brother read? Perhaps the excuses are covering up a fundamental impairment.</p>
<p>You already have written that reading is difficult for him. Why do you think that he can successfully read an instruction manual? Many fully literate adults struggle with those instruction manuals.</p>
<p>Think back carefully over the times he has “refused” or “forgotten” or “neglected” to do things. What skills are required to handle those things? If they are reading or require recall of a specific sequence of steps, or would be performed in a high pressure situation (like translating), then his behavior is probably because he knows that this is beyond his abilities at present.</p>
<p>Drop an email to his guidance counselor. Ask if there is any step you can take to help your brother. Maybe you can.</p>
<p>Talk with your parents about the bad fit at that tutoring center. See if they can find a more effective way to spend their money. It is unlikely that anyone there will be honest with them about how useless the services are because the company exists to make a profit, and the tutors are probably being told to just do what they because the client is paying. Believe me, the tutors are probably as fed up with working with him as he is with going there. Unfortunately, as long as your parents will pay, they won’t do the right thing which is tell him to get different kinds of help.</p>
<p>It can be very frustrating for siblings of kids who have learning disabilities (my suspicion here). What sounds like judgment is probably frustration and a lack of knowledge and understanding about what’s wrong with his brother. Especially since OPs brother was never diagnosed, it seems.</p>
<p>I’d have a heart to heart with him and talk to him about getting some testing to try to pinpoint where his difficulties might be. He doesn’t sound stupid to me. He sounds frustrated too. He sounds like he MIGHT be afraid he’ll fail, so he’s just willing to go ahead and “party and have fun” and be a failure. Easier to prove everyone right. </p>
<p>If that’s the case, that’s very sad, because EVERYONE has a potential. I think vocational school/certification is JUST the ticket. And OP, you could help him by showing him what some of those vocations earn and by coaching him that if he shows up to work with alcohol or drugs in his system, he’ll LOSE that job he worked so hard to get.</p>
<p>But even vocational school can be a challenge to someone with an undiagnosed, untreated learning disability. LIFE can be a challenge for someone like that. Talk to your parents and to him about getting him diagnosed to give him a fighting chance.</p>
<p>And I agree with other posters - NO MILITARY! Not fair to him or those around him to put him in.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This sounds like his reading skills aren’t up to the task – probably because a learning problem interfered with him learning to read in elementary school.</p>
<p>What teenager would go without the Internet for a month or more if he had a choice? </p>
<p>A person who can’t read well enough to follow the instructions in a booklet doesn’t have a choice.</p>
<p>Consider the possibility that your brother has poor reading skills but can compensate for that in some settings. If his tutors aren’t alert to this possibility, I think they could miss it completely. When they work with him, they probably talk and listen – things he may be able to do well. And they may focus on the subject matter of the course – like science or history – rather than on skills. But then when he has to work on his own with a textbook, he may not be able to keep up because of reading difficulties.</p>
<p>LOL marian- see post # 76. Great minds…</p>