<p>What are some of the expanded privileges Mids are granted once they become 3/C 's ? Is the 30-mile rule still enforced for all Town Liberties ?</p>
<p>In my day, Youngesters were only Plebes with permanent carry-on priviledges.</p>
<p>Moving up a few years from 69 (yet still way before today), we got three "weekends" per semester, starting at Saturday noon or last military obligation and ending Sunday at 1800. We could walk on the curved walkways on our way to class. Didn't have "lights out" in the evening. Could use the wardroom on WEs to watch TV, etc. Saw a bit more of our money each month. Got first dibs on signing up for CMOD watches, meaning fewer weekends or other undesirable slots. </p>
<p>I'm sure there were a few other things that I no longer remember but, other than the 3 weekends, 69's take on it was generally true in the 1980s as well.</p>
<p>Still, NOT having to do a lot of things (chow calls, sheet posters, company area bulletin boards, chopping, learning rates, etc.) was and probably still is a huge deal. Not what you get as much as what you get released from. :)</p>
<p>One weekend only, same time frame, no wardroom (probably a company thing), got the curved walkways (don't laugh, "in our day" they were important), no "lights out", and only Plebes stood CMOD, so not a big deal.</p>
<p>While the remark was slightly tongue-in-cheek, the attitude was actually that if one acted like a Plebe with carry-on, they would not be perceived as 'ratey', and life would be better.</p>
<p>3C get a few Sunday town liberties and can take naps durring the day, if they have time, but the biggest thing is they are not plebes. My 3C describes life as "almost normal" media is allowed and it's OK to have friends as upper class and hang out with them on liberty. </p>
<p>Overall the old statement there are three phases to life at the Academy remains very true; Plebe Summer, Plebe Year, and the Other Three years.</p>
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<p>This is a new 'old' statement and it bothers me a lot. Actually, this perception is the sole reason I made my initial comment.</p>
<p>Maybe it depends on what company as a friend from the Class of 79 used that saying when talking to my Mid after Plebe year. Even the listserv site - approved by the Foundation - uses this saying:
[quote]
Plebe</a> Summer </p>
<p>It has been said that an education at the Academy can be divided into three equal parts. The first third of your USNA experience is the six weeks of Plebe Summer. The second third is your Plebe Year, and the remaining third is the rest of your stay at the Naval Academy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Has liberty changed again for Youngsters? Last year they got 2 weekends per semester, Saturday until 0100 and Sunday liberty until 1600. Not just a few Sunday's... Mine would usually go to his sponsors on Sunday to do laundry.</p>
<p>my youngster reports this year having 2 weekends each semester which begin at 1200 on Saturday and end at 1800 Sunday.
regular weekend town liberty includes Sunday until 1800. i don't know what time Sunday town liberty starts.</p>
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</p>
<p>Well, that has to make it official. A statement by a parent on a listserv.</p>
<p>Over the last several months, several upperclassmen and graduates have addressed the gravity of this situation.</p>
<p>Maybe you should stick with care packages.</p>
<p>I feel very fortunate (and lucky) that I was able to graduate and have a great career without listserv. I just wonder what great heights I could have achieved if I had been exposed to the wisdom and guidance that is provided by the listserv.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is a new 'old' statement and it bothers me a lot
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Please explain</p>
<p>As to comments about listserv, granted I have limited familiarity with the site, but from at least a superficial observation it appears like one of many communication vehicles in which people can post and share information, not unlike many forums available to individuals. Without commenting on the quality or accuracy of the information contained within I don't understand the apparent contempt that is on display. Perhaps it's an inside joke among alum that the rest of us cannot appreciate? </p>
<p>There are obviously many sources of information available to us. Some allow the so called uniformed to participate regardless of the quality or accuracy of their information. Many of those sources are not limited to Internet forums; print and other media for example. While opinions may vary depending on the forum I think it would be somewhat naive to suggest you can generalize about which are more or less reliable in terms of their “truthful or accurate portrayal” of reality or which provides the most accurate information. It’s not hard to see that even the “news” is frequently reported as a matter of opinion, more so today as we are in the throws of a presidential election. </p>
<p>In the end there is no reliable filter beyond individual common sense and curiosity about the truth. There is no doubt much of what is floating around and being represented accurate is not even close. If that is the case and people object, what is the alternative being proposed? Who’s truth do we get to read?</p>
<p>Maybe you need to re read the post - it is not something posted on the listserv. It is on the site that sponsors the listserve - the site is approved by the USNA Foundation and the site runs the listserv for the Foundation. On this site is information for parents and prospective parents. The quote Native Texan gave is from the Survival Guide, top of the Plebe Summer section. It is not some random posting from a parent.</p>
<p>As for the "qualifications" of those running the site:
The Administrator and Moderator is a BGO in Virginia, has two USNA grads, a third is 2/C and one still at home. Husband is a USNA76 grad, Rear Admiral and he did have a tour as a Company Officer</p>
<p>Moderators - One is a Captain - MD at Bethesda, mother of an 05 Grad, the other is a BGO in Ohio, mother of 05, 07 Grads and current 09 Mid.</p>
<p>Now maybe this does not "replace" actually having been there but when the Foundation supports this site and this team, it does lend some credibility in their information.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are now over 80 Clubs, some of which are joint service academy clubs, across the continental United States, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico. At the request of the Superintendent of the Naval Academy, the Naval Academy Alumni Association & Foundation provides services to Parents’ Clubs. * from the Alumni and Foundation Website*
[/quote]
Apparently the Alumni Association and Foundation does place some value in keeping Parents informed.</p>
<p>Now what parents actually post to the listserv that is another story - each of us makes our own judgment there as we do here too.</p>
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</p>
<p>I am dealing strictly with second-hand information and the upper class mids and recent grads seem busy now. We could really use their perspective. I am commenting basically due to the gists of several recent posters that there is a breakdown in military demeanor, for lack of a better work, among the three upper classes. And I am too lazy to go back and find them and put each poster on the spot. If we recognize the system as plebes and everyone else, we acknowledge a 'two class' system. The Academy should be a 'four class' system. This is evident in the area of privileges since they increase each year. I also feel that responsibility also is commensurate with each class rank. Where the breakdown seems to occur is in accountability. There doesn't appear to be the zeal of the upper class to mature the upper classmen junior to them so much as working solely with the plebes. Admiral Fowler obviously recognized this by placing the first class in khakis. It breaks them out as different. We already know that the plebes are broken out on the bottom. With the firsties broken out on top, the idea is for them, as a unit, to enforce the accountability of the other two upper classes. Also, perhaps the brief discussion of deemphasizing some of the rites of passage for the survival of plebe year was intended to lessen the significance of this 'two class' perception.</p>
<p>Mom3Mid, Native Texan; listserv is probably a great tool for keeping parents informed and helping them survive the 'rigors' of Plebe Year. However, it is not a source for the understanding of the nuances of military leadership. However, using it as such does provide my humor for the day.</p>
<p>well things are not as broken as they may seem-
seems the alpha last nite came down harder on the 2C's for any room beneath them that failed.
and the emphasis is still very much on training the 2C's to take over, and the 3C's to watch the plebes. The Brigade marches on.</p>
<p>Will share a funny story, however-
harks back to the "three phases" of USNA- plebe summer, plebe year, and everything else.!</p>
<p>So son calls.
S-"We had a brief today on class rings."
M-"wow- already?"
S-"yeah- we order them in a few weeks."
M-"wow!"
S-"can't believe this is almost over."
M-"don't you have 2 more years to finish?"
S-"yeah, but the end is in sight."
M-"well make sure you don't lose sight of it then!"
S-"mom........................."
:eek:</p>
<p>so my take on this is that there is probably some truth to the "plebe summer, plebe year and everything else"..... guess all a matter of perspective! ;)</p>
<p>USNA69 Thank you for the explanation. I did not understand why a seemingly innocent statement provoked such a vocal response. After reading your last post it now makes sense.</p>
<p>As a former graduate and officer you have a very different perspective than I as a parent of a current mid. As a parent the only viewpoint I have is what is the here and now. I do not know what life was like 3 years ago or 30 years ago and how it contrasts to what is going on today. My mid and I rarely discuss events inside her company other than in generic terms. My role is mainly to be there to listen when the calls come with good days and bad days. The bad days get better because our mid uses us to vent on events and issues where it would not be acceptable to do so to anyone on the yard. </p>
<p>I completely agree with you, that I will never understand the nuances of military leadership. However, like the civilian world the final judgment of the success of the program is what is the quality of the final product as it leaves the building. In our case what is the perception of USNA graduates as they enter the Fleet? Is it better or worse than 5 years ago, 30 years ago?</p>
<p>IMO the whole phrase does have merit. Once I completed Plebe year I did breath a bit easier as I now knew that I had the tools to suceed. Certainly never looked at it as if I was now one of the "big boys" Trust me we know our place as youngsters and now as second class. I had made it through probably the toughest parts of life on the yard and had confidence in going forward. That confidence is certainly helping, as the saying that 2/c year is the hardest academically, is holding true for me.</p>
<p>The four class system is well and alive at the Academy. The idea that the Academy is broken into three phases does not in any way mean there is only a two class system here. What gives the impression that the accountability of the 3/c, 2/c and 1/c's seems to be broken? What observations is this based on? </p>
<p>As for the lessening of the rites of passage for plebes designed to counter this two class perception - I do not know whose perception it is supposed to lessen - the parents or Alumni because there certainly is not that perception on the yard.</p>
<p>You are correct. It is a comment which does indeed have merit. As a coping mechanism, I would both expect it and find it appropriate from a Youngster. But not from a First Class (unless he was doing a presentation to a bunch of potential candidates).</p>
<p>Like I said, my comments are based on 2nd hand information and a half dozen or so comments from this forum which I am not going to go back and research. However, I feel that if this were not an issue, the Firsties would not be in khakis. navy2010's room inspection comment is probably proof that it is working as is your comments, CurrentMid, that you don't know what it is about.</p>
<p>MIDNDAD, I firmly believe that each class gets better, more prepared to meet the fleet. Tweaking things is not a simple matter. Everything goes in cycles. Also, addressing one issue might cause another. Fixing a problem extremely well will eventually deemphasize focus on it and cause it to eventually raise it's ugly head again.</p>
<p>that three phase comment has merit. at CGA its the same deal, 3/c are really just glorified 4/c. since the academies run pretty much the same way i'm going to assume that it applies to all of them. </p>
<p>BTW USNA69, through my occasional browsing of this site i dont think i've ever seen a you make a respectful post, lighten up a bit.</p>
<p>And your post is respectful? Apparently the CGA needs to work a little more on their four class sysem. Such arrogance with so little to back it up.</p>
<p>down boys!</p>