Your Kid's Experience of TA's

<p>I have always loved LAC's, partly because of the personal attention students receive. I also had real concerns about the use of TA's at larger schools. However, now that I have a kid in a school which uses teaching assistants, (and have a daughter who IS a TA) I find that my attitute has broadened! My son's favorite teacher this term is a TA in Italian. The most personal attention he has gotten at his school has been from this TA!</p>

<p>Have any of your kids had noteworthy positive or negative reactions to their TA experiences?</p>

<p>"The most personal attention he has gotten at his school has been from this TA!"</p>

<p>??? (was that meant as a backhanded compliment?)</p>

<p>My school only uses TAs for science labs. For bio, we had a small lab group of 16 and my TA was great...we got good personal attention and he generally knew what he was doing. The supervising professor would come in about once a lab just to make sure everything was ok.</p>

<p>My chem TA, on the other hand, wasn't so great. The lab was bigger, too, about 25 kids. I didn't talk to him too much, because he was very difficult to understand, and he didn't really offer too much to help us. Fortunately, the supervising professor did the pre-lab lecture and was almost always in our lab and willing to help.</p>

<p>My S has a TA in every single one of his classes which range in size from 11 to 29. He likes them all. I think all of them are foreign, though from different countries and with different accents, but he has not complained about their English diction. His profs are very accessible and friendly, but the TAs are closer in age--which seems to matter for 17-year olds.</p>

<p>"The most personal attention he has gotten at his school has been from this TA!"</p>

<p>I think that at larger universities the only personal attention that students get during theire freshman year comes from the TAs. (The only exception being freshmen seminars offered at some schools that are caped at 16 students). </p>

<p>Some TAs are excellent, but many are not.</p>

<p>I just happened to be discussing this with my S today. He attends CAL, and he has had a good experience with GSIs (thats what they call them - guess it stands for Graduate Student Instructor) and this format for education. He too finds that the professors are accessible.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My S has a TA in every single one of his classes which range in size from 11 to 29. He likes them all. I think all of them are foreign, though from different countries and with different accents, but he has not complained about their English diction. His profs are very accessible and friendly, but the TAs are closer in age--which seems to matter for 17-year olds.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It seems to me that marite's son has the best of both worlds. All his classes are small enough for the professor to get to know the students, but there is also an additional person the students can go to for help and to get a different perspective on the material.</p>

<p>In addition, some places offer undergraduates the opportunity to work as teaching assistants or course assistants, which can be a valuable learning experience for the student involved. There's nothing like trying to explain something to another student for deepening your own understanding of a subject.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Some TAs are excellent, but many are not.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The same could be said of professors! Some are excellent, but many are not. </p>

<p>If a student is fortunate to have small classes as well as TAs, like marite's son, then he has more chances of encountering at least some excellent instructors.</p>

<p>And I recall at least one notorious incident in which the professor assigned to teach a course was doing such a poor job that the students marched en masse to the dean's office to request that the head teaching fellow replace him as the lecturer in the course. (After some investigation, the university did indeed have the head teaching fellow replace the professor for at least a month as the lecturer for the course, and the students were apparently delighted.)</p>

<p>Hi Mini,</p>

<p>"??? (was that meant as a backhanded compliment?)"</p>

<p>:) Not really! He has made contacts with all of his profs and likes them a lot. I think Marite's point is right on for S; his TA is closer in age, less intimidating, perhaps. I imagine that might not be true of all TAs.</p>

<p>But what you wrote is that he had gotten the most personal attention from his TA.</p>

<p>I'm a strong believer in mentoring. There is a reason why journeymen were never allowed to have apprentices, or why Oxford men without 5 years of experience after graduation (required for an MA) are not allowed to "dispute". The reason is that in the period of "earning your stripes", you might make a very good friend, but not one to be emulated. It's not a matter of "liking" or not "liking". Mentorship is reserved for individuals who have already arrived, so they can share the journey with those starting out.</p>

<p>Sadly, it doesn't happen all the time in the best of circumstances. </p>

<p>The thing was, when I was a TA, I could have been a really excellent lecturer. Better than many of the professors. Better even than some of the famous ones (the head of my department was a Nobel Prize winner) The reason I could be a better lecturer is because I was often more up-to-date, was still wrestling with meanings and implications, was less comfortable with "accepted truths" - in short, because (besides being reasonably smart) I was younger. But as a mentor, I would have been terrible, and was. (The students liked me a lot, and gave me several "best teacher" awards. But it doesn't change the truth.)</p>

<p>Small departments are good! (That has nothing to do with the size of the university.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
But as a mentor, I would have been terrible, and was.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just because you might have been a terrible mentor, mini, doesn't mean that other young scholars are necessarily terrible mentors.</p>

<p>I know a student who took classes from terrific professors at a very fine small liberal arts college, but it's clear to me that a brilliant and inspiring undergraduate TA is by far the most influential and helpful mentor she has had. </p>

<p>(One important consideration for her--in her particular field at this small school, the professors were all male. And the field is heavily dominated by males in general. Her undergraduate TA was female. It is pretty close to certain in my mind that she would not have chosen to major in the field she did had it not been for the advice, support, and encouragment of this particular TA.)</p>

<p>The professors were terrific and inspiring lecturers, but the TA was the person she felt most comfortable talking to about the subject. Her professors were accessible and she did talk to them, but she found them intimidating. Her TA was far more accessible--she lived in the same dorm, ate meals at the same dining hall, and was just very easy to approach and discuss things with. Her former TA has continued to stay in touch with her and open doors for her even now that she's moved on to grad school. (And her former TA looks like she's headed for a distinguished career that may outshine those excellent LAC professors.) </p>

<p>The mentorship may well be a vital long-term relationship for both women. But according to mini's logic, the young woman should not have had the opportunity to have this slightly older young woman as a TA or as a mentor because she didn't yet have "5 years of experience after graduation."</p>

<p>I think it's silly to say that one can't be a good mentor until five years after grad school. I know some terrific high school students who are amazing mentors to middle school students. And I know some middle school students who are awesome mentors for slightly younger students.</p>

<p>I think the bigger the pool of potential mentors available to a student the better. Perhaps some students are indeed best served by being mentored by distinguished senior professors. </p>

<p>But it's silly to say that senior professors are always the best mentors for EVERYONE, on the strength of the fact that you consider yourself to have been a terrible mentor when you were in grad school, mini.</p>

<p>I can't answer this question. D hasn't had any classes with TA's. However, she's gotten to know all of her profs well, most extremely well.</p>

<p>This must be TheDad's day for being more obnoxious than usual.</p>

<p>I also have a D who will begin TA'ing next fall.At her U,1st year grad students don't TA unless they are in English.Then the process is gradual,you aren't fully in charge of a class for quite a number of years.
She attended a large public U for undergrad and had a mixture of TA"s (in her major,and in sciences and languages)
She also had excellent professors,good professors and some really poor ones.
Some TA's were excellent,some left alot to be desired.One particularly good one got her through a difficult upper level class with extra help and mentoring.One language TA (upper level german) was such a poor classroom teacher the 2 classes he taught went to the dept head and demanded more oversight for him,which was done.
Don't forget all those exalted full professors you are all lusting after to be in charge of your childrens classrooms had to start somewhere!!</p>

<p>Another observation, this one through DD, the TA. </p>

<p>She is in a doctoral program having first attended a small LAC, which she wouldn't trade for anything. She has found that nearly all the profs at the graduate school level are difficult to approach. Seems most are far too into their own research to be interested in mentoring. One main exception is the teacher who does her TA observations; she has been quite helpful and affirming. </p>

<p>When S was trying to decide whether to go to D's alma mater or to his chosen research institution, she commented, "Why would you trade great professors for the chance to take a class from someone like ME??"</p>

<p>To each his own.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Don't forget all those exalted full professors you are all lusting after to be in charge of your childrens classrooms had to start somewhere!!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good point. </p>

<p>Going to a school where you can get the benefit of access to professors and TA's supervised by professors is in some ways analogous to going to a teaching hospital, where you are cared for by residents and medical students supervised (generally loosely) by leading specialists.</p>

<p>There are pros and cons, and the best choice can be different for different cases.</p>

<p>If you have garden-variety, uninteresting appendicitis, you may be better off in your local suburban non-teaching hospital.</p>

<p>If you have something really exotic, unusual, and potentially interesting/challenging for a teaching hospital to diagnose and treat, you may be better off in the teaching hospital. And of course, you (or your family member who is advocating for you if you can't do so for yourself) needs to be vigilant in making sure that the residents assigned to your case know what they are doing, stay in touch with your attending physician if you have questions, cultivate a good relationship with your nurses so you'll know the best way to get access to more senior docs when you need them, etc.</p>

<p>Similarly, some students may be best off in colleges where all teaching is done by full-time faculty with degrees.</p>

<p>Others may be better off in schools where they have access to professors AND teaching assistants, like marite's son. (In any event, since marite's son was doing graduate level math classes even before entering college, all the schools that offer suitable classes for him are schools that would have TAs assisting the professors. He is sort of analogous to the patient with an exotic illness whose best choice is to be treated by specialists at a teaching hospital.)</p>

<p>Wisteria, I find your analogy (and other comments) interesting and helpful. Thanks!</p>

<p>I just want to modify Wisteria's comments about my S's classes. One of them is actually an 11-person freshman seminar which has a TA. The TA has been enormously helpful in gathering reading materials for S's final project (as he has for every other student). The prof took them all bowling last Sunday.
My S is by no means a 17-year old graduate student!</p>

<p>As someone who was a TA at a large school and is now is a prof, all I can say is this: TAs can be great. They can also be awful. The same goes for professors. By and large, however, professors at LACs will be better mentors and teachers than TAs at large schools. That's simply b/c professors at LACs <em>choose</em> to teach at a small school, and they usually do it b/c they enjoy teaching. They also have a lot more experience. TAs, on the other hand, are more of a gamble--a few are great (and will go on to become profs at LACs), but many others are teaching only b/c they need to pay their grad school tuition bills. Bottom line: On average I would expect profs at LACs to be better mentors/teachers than TAs at large schools; TAs at large schools, in turn, may be better mentors than profs at large schools, but that's not as obvious (again, some of these TAs never have and never will have much interest in teaching; the same goes for profs who choose research-oriented schools).</p>

<p>How much picking and choosing are want-to-be profs making? Isn't is hard to get a job so if a LAC job comes up, a prospective prof may take it even though he would rather work at a research institution? And vice versa?</p>

<p>I was going to make similar comments to Dstark's. There are indeed very few profs who can pick and choose where they will be teaching. The market is a buyer's market. And nowadays, research universities are emphasizing teaching more than they used to. An applicant who has some experience of teaching will be hired over one who does not.
As for mentoring, it depends to a certain extent on what stage a prof is in his or her career. Let's face it, how much more experience has a starting prof over an advanced graduate student?
Finally, LACs also want evidence of research. I know a prof who was denied tenure at a top LAC despite earning raves from students because the prof had not produced the requisite monograph. The LAC replaced this prof with a newly minted Ph.D.</p>

<p>My 3 Ds have all had experience with TAs but it seems that theirs has been a bit of a different situation than would appear to what is being discussed here. The TAs have only been involved in recitations/tutorials, never teaching a full class of students. So the students are with the professors for two or three lectures per week and with the TA for a smaller tutorial and discussion group. None of my Ds has had any problem being in close contact with a professor, if it's necessary. My D3 who is a freshman at a large university with 50,000 students knows all of her professors. All provided email and home phone numbers at the beginning of the semester and all classes have what the kids call e-blackboard which include class notes, syllabus, important dates, forums for discussion and questions, etc.. All have open office hours on almost a daily basis and encourage students to drop in. All of her profs except one know students' names. Two of her profs attended a play she was in this fall. In one of her classes this semester, her prof WAS her TA for the tutorial section, which she found quite interesting. </p>

<p>They've found the vast majority of their TAs engaging, interesting, and good teachers. Same with their profs. Maybe they've been very lucky.</p>