<p>WUSL markets itself to students all during the year, many of whom apply and are most likely deferred or waitlisted. WUSL however has another group of students that they court the most. These are the students who might not have expressed a lot of interest in applying other than putting a regular decision application in. These are the applicants with unbelievably high SAT scores which WUSL so much wants to keep selectivity high. (Their marketing ensures a high number of applicants applying as well). What WUSL does is they invite in the spring these extremelly high SAT scorers out for a free weekend shortly before all admissions decisions are sent out. Many of these applicants are offered merit money - some even full scholarshps to come, and many are told they will receive the merit money while they are there that weekend. While WUSL hopes to attract those who would typically go to a top ivy league school. That is not exactly what transpires. From cc post boards one can look at the statistics of high SAT scorers that post. What one sees is that almost all of their extra curricular lists are the same. These extraordinarly intelligent applicants appear ordinary in that they have similar accomplishments and interests. The majority of these high SAT scorers who decide to go to WUSL are those who applied to HYP ect, but were not accepted because although they had high grades and scores, they did not stand out from the other applicants.
The risk that WUSL takes in accepting these extremely high SAT scorers to increase selectivity is that they might ultimately find that their student body is very homogeneous and devoid of student and passions that make up most college campuses. WUSL would be better off to accept compeitive but lower SAT scorers whom they court all year. Many of these applicants have interests, passions and talents to bring to the school comunity which could enhance it.</p>
<p>collegebound05, with all due respect, I can't help but to think your post is full of false assumptions:</p>
<ol>
<li>This "free weekend" you're talking about is finalist weekend. This is a weekend in march when student who APPLY for merit scholarships at WUSTL, and make it to the finals are invited to come for interviews. None of the students are promised merit money during this weekend, only an interview. Once they interview, then a committe chooses the finalists. You make it seem as tho people are just randomly invited for finalist weekend and money is thrown out to the first couple of bidders no. Students have to apply for merit scholarships in order to be considered for them(the only exceptions are the Danforth Scholarship which you have to be nominated for but once you are you are notified and must be interviewed if you become a finalist...there are also merit/need-based scholarships that are given to a student based on need, but the scholarship in particular is based on merit attributes, with that being said, the amount of money given is based on need).</li>
</ol>
<p>1.5 WUSTL hosts a number of "free weekends" during the year which are designed to give interested students, and students that WUSTL courts a look at the school (i.e. Discovery Weekend, Bus Tour, etc). At none of these weekends are students promised merit money. They are only encouraged to apply for scholarships.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The admissions office does not give out merit scholarships (such as Ervin, Rodriguez, Danforth, etc). These are seperate programs within themselves and they have their own selection committes. Believe it or not, the process isn't as contrived and rigged as you'd like to think it is. </p></li>
<li><p>You imply that WUSTL has admissions practices that could make the student body "very homogeneous" but that is not true at all. WUSTL has over 300 student groups. One of the selling points of the school is the diversity in the student body. Everyone is not the same! Part of WUSTL's admissions philosophy is to admit students who can add different aspects to the community, not ones who all like the same thing.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>WUSTL's marketing department is on hyperdrive...no doubt about it!! My oldest S received something from them every week or even more ofter. He thought - oh boy they want me because it included letters addressed to him (not just fancy brochures). So he applied and was waitlisted because they had "a record number of applicants" that year (2001). He was perfectly qualified but I truly believe that WUSTL wants to lower their admission rate by trying to get everyone and their sister applying. My two S's who were very well qualified received more literature from them than definitely any other school. That's O.K. my oldest S went to a better school anyway - UChicago. Just from this experience, I have soured on WUSTL and tell others to watch out for the fancy mailings and don't get your hopes up. Is your marketing Dept. Mgr. taking speed?</p>
<p>I am glad you clarified my post. This is the impression that many have. Obviously if there is a thread here called regarding how can WUSL improve - someone believes that there needs to be some changes. You seem to know a great deal about their practices. I was under the impression that many students had not applied for those scholarships before they attended because that is what I heard. If however you do go under the cc thread for Wash U for last spring and read the stats of those who are planning to attend, many seem similar in terms of their extra curricular activities. I do believe that WUSL tries to attract extremely high SAT scorers and waits to hear if tney are attending before they accept other applicants. Mayber I am wrong. This is just my impression. Please accept my apologizes if I provided false information.</p>
<p>Jeffwun, I have to agree with everything you said. My S received tons of WUSTL mail, and he also received tons of Caltech (still have those 3D glasses), Brown, Princeton, Rose Hulman, Olin (nice brochures) and many other colleges. Since his freshman year at high school, ¾ of the entire mail was college brochures.
He participated in the Discovery Weekend, and then he decided he absolutely loved the school from “no way to go there” went to be his first choice. He doesn’t have the high SAT scores that CCers seem to have, but he got a half tuition merit scholarship (the one he applied to). He also applied to Ivies, Carnegie Mellon and the MIT, and he got accepted, but he enrolled at WUSTL.
Some people believe that because they receive mail from this or that school, they are qualified to get there, and that is not correct, it’s the same way my kids received tons of credit cards solicitations when they weren’t even in high school. Never think that someone is overqualified to get into the top 25 schools, you would be surprised if you see the stats of all those schools. Having a high SAT doesn’t mean you are fitted for the school, and that, admission officers know very well. If you like the school and you think you have chances to be accepted, send your application, but have in mind that nothing is for sure until you have the acceptance letter.</p>
<p>Peacemaker - hi - I just wrote back to you on another thread. I didn't realize there that you had already been through this... and I so agree with you about Wash U's admitting policy.</p>
<p>Jeffwun, I have loved WUSTL from the first day my son and I visited - and he was only 1 and 1/2 years old. I love Wash U and I love St. Louis. We were visiting family in Clayton, but I thought to myself, we'll be back here - I really liked it that much and recognized the virtues of that school.</p>
<p>Fast forward 16 years and lo and behold, my son turned out to be a very good match for this school I loved so much - and he liked it just as much. I was very disappointed with his wait list letter and then I learned just how many people have consistently gotten wait listed from there. And how few of those ever turn into acceptances.</p>
<p>So back to your original question - what can they do?</p>
<p>1) The wait list thing - you say that is a misconception? I believe all falsehoods start with a grain of truth and the grain here is that an abnormally large number of qualified applicants are wait listed and almost none of those ever turn into acceptances. So do something to change that misconception. My original understanding of a wait list is that it is a cushion to make sure that enough acceptances become admittances. But apparently the admissions department does such a good job at issuing acceptances that there is never a need to go to the wait list. If that is true, then stop putting so many qualified candidates on the wait list. Believe in yourself. Applicants ARE saying YES so you don't need to be in the business of issuing false hope. As devastating as a rejection is, at least the student can move on and not sit around and beg for a spot where he wasn't wanted anyway. </p>
<p>2) Improve the interview process. We went for one of those weekends you mentioned and were assured that you only conduct peer interviews. My son was interviewed by a very young underclassman (could she have been a sophomore?) who knew little about school admissions and seemed more interested in her hair than my son. (Actually I wondered how she got accepted to the school.) We did not leave with a strong feeling that any of my son's attributes and qualities would be passed on to any decisionmaker. If that "interview" is just a chance for the applicant to talk to a student one on one, then call it that. But I think not, because as my husband and I were waiting in the waiting room, we saw an adult admissions counselor come and meet with a boy and his mom for an interview. I'm not sure why he got the special treatment but I wish I didn't have to witness that. Made me feel even worse about my son being interviewed by the blonde cheerleader.</p>
<p>3) I know this may sound bizarre, and maybe is something only from a mom, but expand your application. Although time-crunched students may appreciate the brevity, your application is ridiculously short and "shallow". How can you possibly learn about your applicants with the application you require? Your Part I is really just a contact card. Part II is the common app. Demand that people take more time and tell you more about themselves. Look beyond the scores and grades and probe the person. Ask questions that force your applicants to think. See if they can write! Maybe then you can judge the cream from the crop. Is this again a case of not respecting yourself enough? Respect yourself enough to think that people will think it's worth it to apply to your school. If it's really true as you say in your wait list letter that you have a record-breaking number of applicants (we got that letter in 2006) then don't be afraid to alter that statement to "a number of record-breaking qualified applicants."</p>
<p>And P.S. maybe then you can attract people who can correctly use the word "its" instead of "it's" and who know how to spell "separate" and "receive" and "definitely" ... sorry, don't even get me started on my biggest pet peeve... college students at top schools who can't spell...</p>
<p>lovemykids, I’m sorry that you are very disappointed; we, the moms, suffer more this application process than our children. It seems that WUSTL was your dream school more than your son dream school, and maybe the school wasn’t a fit for him. Sometimes we don’t see the things that the admissions officers see. If your son was at the 2005 Discovery Weekend, he should interview with an admission officer like my son did, he just called the school before the trip and they gave him different choices to fit his schedule. All the kids we know did the same, some were accepted later, some not, and even a few didn’t apply at all because of the cost. My D went in April; she was interviewed at admissions, and later, she ask for another interview since she wasn’t sure she wanted to apply there the first time, and the same admissions officer interviewed her five months after that and surprisingly he remembered her. Only graduates, alumni and parents besides the facultative and admissions officers give the interviews, and they are very polite and usually if they like the kid, they follow him/her until they get the application turned in. I think we were lucky with interviews at all the schools, even when only at WUSTL and Carnegie Mellon my children had interviews with admission officers, the rest where old alumni and graduate students.
If your son likes WUSTL very much and he has the stats and fits there, he always could apply for a transfer, I know a few kids that did and they are very happy (one already graduated).
About applications, GPA and recommendations letters weight more than a nice SAT score, and the essay should reflect how the kid is. When you send your common application, you could send also more material that it is important to distinguish your son from the rest, and they look at it very carefully, colleges are markets, you have to put in them the best product available.</p>
<p>So far for me, the academic quality here has been superb. My professors are all very knowledgeable and have produced great research in their fields. If you know what professors to take classes with, the faculty should be first-rate.</p>
<p>My complaint is about the perceived quality of life here. I came here because Princeton Review said it had some of the happiest students in the nation, and mostly everyone that I talked to that came here said that they loved it. But, for me and a lot of people I know, it really has not been that much fun. I don't know any ways the school can improve this (free Upasses and the alcohol policy are things that I haven't heard of at many other schools) and maybe this will change by the end of the year, but that's been the problem for me, and not the education.</p>
<p>Thanks Cressmom for those words. It often is way harder for the moms. Regarding presenting him in the best light, yes, we did do all those things - actually brought a package with us at the interview which apparently never made it to the admin committee (that was the little bimbo interview.) I can't remember what the day was called - it was in July and for Arts & Sci applicants - I think it was called Liberal Arts Day or something like that.</p>
<p>Then when he mailed the app he re-sent the same folder of extra material as well as a CD recording (he is a musician as well.) The package got lost at Wash U - which I only learned about after repeated phoning about why the internet checking site wasn't showing the Part II app received. He called and was told to hang in there - the office was swamped and probably it just didn't get recorded. Finally I called and got a person who was very nice about it but suggested that he resend the whole thing - I think by then it was late January and past the deadline. She promised it wouldn't matter.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong - I still think it's a phenomenal school. And actually my son did like it very much. And he was a very good fit for a school with strong pre-med, growing music program, committed volunteer spirit ...a place that is less jock oriented and more scholar oriented and values well rounded creative thinkers ... all of which describes my son. Though his stats were amazing his GPA probably wasn't as high as they like (3.5) and I'm sure that is what hurt him. But we were hoping that they would see past that to the other fine qualities that defined his potential.</p>
<p>I guess they just didn't see it that way. But lots of other schools did - one in particular as selective as WUSTL - and he is very happy now so he would never dream of transferring. But I must comment that it's funny what rejections and wait lists do to students... most of the ones I know lost a lot of their attraction to the schools that "didn't want" them - even if they loved the college when they applied. There's a lot of pride involved. And that is really my point about these wait lists. ALL of the kids who apply to a school like Wash U are the best and the brightest - they are our future - not just academically smart, but hard workers, high achievers, talented, well-rounded people. I object not to Wash U being selective - I object more to them "hedging their bets" and putting so many of these candidates on the wait list. Put only as many as history tells you that you need. Reject the rest, and allow them to move on and find a place that really wants them.</p>
<p>great comments everyone, keep them coming</p>
<p>lovemykids, your comments were very helpful and I will speak with the admissions office about them</p>