<p>I'm a newly admitted student, and this post also happens to be my first.</p>
<p>Peculiarly, I never knew of the existence of another undergrad school GS, before applying. Equally surprising is that they have 2000 students in GS. That's alot. I've done some reading, but I'm still left with some curiosities because the opinions are so mixed. Many argue that there are, in fact, very few distinctions with the College (same classes, same faculty, same degree, and many traditional students due to List College and Science Po), and others like to make critical jokes.</p>
<p>Now, this question is directed at my fellow CC students and SEAS students:</p>
<p>What is your perception and view of GS and its students? What is your overall opinion of them?</p>
<p>Do you look down on them? Do you respect then less? Or do you see them as your equals? </p>
<p>Generally, are they up to par with the other undergrads, or will they be the ones holding the class back? </p>
<p>To be honest, I've noticed that Columbia is less integrated as a whole compared to some other Ivies due to its many divisions within the school. It's relationship with Barnard definitely doesn't help either. My interviewer mentioned this as well.</p>
<p>The average GS graduating GPA and average CC graduating GPA are both 3.3x (can’t remember the last digit). In general, the three classes GS and CC students don’t take together are University Writing, Literature Humanities, and Contemporary Civ. In these three cases, it is mutually beneficial to both groups of students to have separate class sections from each other. I recommend that you ask your professors and they will elaborate on their own experiences of having separate CC and GS classes for those 3 courses.</p>
<p>I’ve recently learned of a number of Harvard-Columbia cross-admits for the class of 2015 that chose Columbia, among many other reasons, because it would provide them with a more diverse and atypical college experience in comparison to their other options. Barnard, GS, military veterans and the roaming and mixing of post-docs/graduate/business/journalism/art/law school students contribute to that aspect. When all of your peers have a more generally similar background, as would be the case with a more consolidated Ivy, it really limits the diversity of your experiences.</p>
<p>From what I have seen, CC and SEAS students are a lot more “hands-off” when it comes to in-class discussion for seminar courses. In general, less willing to contribute or participate in dialogue of lecture topics. At times that can be a benefit when your professor is really just looking to read out his/her lecture plan and call it a day (we all have those days when we would agree with that route). Usually it seems to be more the case though that the professors want to referee so that they can focus the class on chosen topics and then let the students throw all their opinions out and form a discussion of sorts.</p>
<p>As for “holding the class back”, you’ll find that if anything, the students in their mid-twenties to early-thirties tend to ruin the curves for their peers by studying too hard and too long.</p>
<p>Just another thought. Now and again you might end up in a class with a GS student who is in his/her 40s or 50s. Occasionally he/she might ask irrelevant questions that, if answered, would drag the class into unproductive discussion territory. Just remember that when this happens, EVERYONE is annoyed (and not just you CC/SEAS students).</p>
<p>Columbia Core classes are open to CC/SEAS only. GS students are not allowed. </p>
<p>Columbia College degree is awarded by Columbia College
Columbia GS degree is awarded by GS (not by Columbia College)
GS degree is different from CC degree.</p>
<p>The only three CC-only sections of classes are Lit Hum, Contemp Civ, and University Writing. Those three courses have separate GS sections. All other courses are fully integrated classes with the same professors, same curves, same TA’s, etc. It’s true about the degrees looking different. CC degree is in latin while SEAS and GS degrees are in english. Also, the original post in the thread is asking about personal accounts, so I’m pretty suspicious about the possibility that pumagirl is just looking to rock the boat. If she was a student here, she would be smart enough to realize that building up bad blood like that between different members of the student body does nothing good for the university.</p>
<p>This is not even worth refuting. Read ComaPrison’s post.</p>
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<p>No, they are both awarded by the same entity, The Trustees of Columbia University. Individual colleges do not and cannot award degrees.</p>
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<p>From Columbia University’s School of General Studies:</p>
<p>“GS students take the same courses with the same faculty, are held to the same high standards, and earn the same degree as all other Columbia undergraduates.”</p>
<p>Learn the difference between a diploma and a degree. CC has a Latin diploma. SEAS and GS have English diplomas. Does that degrade the value a GS or SEAS degree? Absolutely not. HOWEVER, they are all awarded the SAME degree.</p>
<p>I strongly urge all of you to COMPLETELY ignore all of pumagirl’s,collegeboy49’s,YELLOWHAIR’s posts.</p>
<p>It is listed as 2000 because GS also includes the GS pre-med post-bacc program (a non-degree program) as well as part-time students (less than 12 credits a semester). I believe 900 might be the # for full-time students? Someone double check.</p>
<p>Hmm… I don’t understand. Why shouldn’t part-time students be counted in the undergraduate headcount? They are still “GS students”.</p>
<p>For the Postbacc students, I understand to a certain extent. But, they are still technically, GS students taking undergrad courses, no? They are GS students as well.</p>
<p>Therefore the statement, “There are 2000 students in GS” is ultimately correct, in my opinion. On the other hand, the statement “there are 2000 studying for a degree in GS” would be a different story.</p>
<p>Not that it is important though. I personally welcome GS students and am excited by the diversity they will provide. The more the better.</p>
<p>ComaPrison, my understanding is that GS students take UWriting (if they haven’t taken an equivalent class at another school), but take it with other GS students, not CC freshpeople. Is that correct?</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with part time students and post-bacc students being included in the total student count. That is how it should be. The only implication of what I said and meant is that the 2000 students don’t represent the equivalent of ~1/3 (CC+SEAS =~6000) of the CC+SEAS student body’s worth of campus participation, resource/financial aid usage, and credit counts. Overall, the merit-based financial aid we receive only constitutes ~23% of our total tuition as an entire student body, versus need-based financial aid covering ~46% for CC and SEAS. So in terms of our foot print on the university’s resources, we are probably more like 1/12th of CC+SEAS. </p>
<p>The GS administration is attempting to improve the financial aid situation by courting more donors and floating the possibility of having the school renamed in honor of a large enough of a donor (according to a group lunch conversation I had with Dean Awn). That would certainly be good news, as everyone hates the name (as well as the potential ambiguity or questions the name elicits) and cries about the woefully inadequate student financial aid. The flip side of this is that once the financial aid gets improved to CC/SEAS levels (an explicit goal of the GS administration), the number of applicants will probably jump by at least an additional 10-20% a year above the current rates of increase. I predict that the result would be a tanking of the admission rate down from the current 23% (33% is a commonly cited figure but that only accounts for the transfer applicants) to something more like ~10%. As is commonly heard on the forums, the biggest deterrent for many highly qualified applicants is the inadequate financial aid.</p>
<p>Edit: I like to rant about our financial aid situation if you haven’t noticed yet.</p>
<p>GS graduation requirement is different from Columbia College graduation requirement.
GS students get Bachelor of Arts (BA) or Bachelor of Science (BS) degree.
Columbia College do not offer Bachelor of Science nor Bachelor of Arts degree program, but offers Baccalavrei in Artibvs (Latin) degree program only and it is different from BA/BS.
Someone is lying again.</p>
<p>Harvard College degrees and Harvard Extension School degrees are both awarded by the same entity as well, the presidents and fellows of Harvard College.</p>
If I’m reading it right, that class is LitHum. One of the exceptions pointed out in this very thread. Try clicking on another course in Humanities, or another subject.</p>
<p>It’s also been established that GS and SEAS award english language diplomas, while CC awards Latin. Perhaps you need a refresher on your latin? BA = BA.</p>
<p>Read ComaPrison’s post once again. He’s already mentioned that the section, not the CLASS is different for Lit Hum here and elsewhere plenty of times. Do you even know what that class is?</p>
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<p>That applies to both SEAS and GS. We still receive the same degrees.</p>
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<p>Oh really? According to the Columbia College ITSELF, it awards the Bachelor of Art’s DEGREE. It only says ‘Baccalavrei in Artibvs’ on the DIPLOMA because it is translated to Latin, not because the degree is any different. They are both BA’s. A SEAS diploma is in English too, but it is not looked down upon.</p>
<p>AGAIN, learn the difference between a DEGREE and DIPLOMA. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Two degrees may be equal but have different diplomas, but I’m not going to carry my diploma everywhere, so it’s okay.</p>
<p>In this link, a staff profile/education is provided. (Note that some say Columbia College and some say Columbia University but they always have BA instead of AB on them.)</p>
<p>Here is another huge problem with your argument if you are correct (although you are not): SEAS awards the Bachelor of Sciences. So does GS. Therefore you are essentially arguing that GS=SEAS, but GS=/=CC because one is in Latin and one is not. We can also deduce that you are saying CC is somehow superior to SEAS (and GS because their diplomas and degrees are “supposedly” in English). I completely disagree with that. Yes, the CC and SEAS and (GS) diplomas are different but the degrees themselves are equally impressive.</p>
<p>Again, from GS(can you actually read it this time???):</p>
<p>“GS students take the SAME COURSES with the SAME FACULTY, are held to the same high standards, and earn the SAME DEGREE as all other Columbia undergraduates.”</p>
<p>Columbia College AND Columbia’s School of General Studies both state they offer the same degree. Who are YOU to say that THEY THEMSELVES are lying to us? </p>
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<p>Yes, I know but that wasn’t the point. Harvard College students receive the Bachelor of Arts degree, while extension students receive the Bachelor of Liberal Arts. They are DIFFERENT DEGREES. They also receive DIFFERENT DIPLOMAS.</p>
<p>I said this many times already but here we go again. There are three courses that have separate GS and CC/SEAS sections. University Writing, Lit Hum (Eurpn Lit-Philos Masterpiecs I and II), and Contemp Civ (Contemp Western Civilization I and II).</p>
<p>EURPN LIT-PHILOS MASTERPIECS I and II have separate GS sections from the CC/SEAS sections (Lit Hum):</p>
<p>Instructors for both sections of the class are drawn from the same pool. My University Writing instructor had taught both GS and CC/SEAS sections. My literature instructor has also taught CC/SEAS sections of Lit Hum.</p>
<p>In all other departments that I have seen, “C” sections of classes are open to all of Columbia College, Engineering and Applied Science, General Studies, School of Continuing Education, and Barnard.</p>
<p>The former two of which I have completed and the latter of which I will be attending in the fall. You would know some of this already if you were an actual student here pumagirl.</p>
<p>Accroding to ths web site. Columbia College graduates get AB and GS graduates get BA and they are two different digrees. Remember that the graduation requirements of GS is different from those of Columbia College. For example, Core Curriculum is not required for GS graduates. Think about it. How can they be the same degree when graduation reuqirments different ?</p>