ZPG. Food Crisis. Discussion please.

College Confidential Community
21

<p>@alicewang</p>

<ol>
<li><p>And why do they get to not be subject to the same drugs? Would they not be hypocrites by imposing their values on others without following them themselves?</p></li>
<li><p>And "theoretically" you can make unicorns out of horses.</p></li>
<li><p>See 2. Curbing is not the same as curing.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, living a life of a robot with no desires is better than not living at all. Note: this was sarcasm.</p></li>
<li><p>But the fact remains that humans are instinctually greedy. It doesn't matter what environment they grow up in.</p></li>
</ol>

22

<ol>
<li><p>Yes, hypocrisy is bad as it corrupts the truth. Depending on scientific studies done, I'm inclined to be on the 22 year old side but not be using a double standard. Cursing or deploring something as a PREFERENCE is much different from acting in contradiction to an ORDER imposed upon others. Alcohol affects young people differently when used in large amounts.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, and those exact things which you alter are what make you enjoy life. You live the life of the robot; I won't.</p></li>
<li><p>People will desire to curb their greed? That is the most contradictory statement I have ever heard. It's like saying I am killing to be non-violent.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, suffering is better than living the life of a robot and you'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who differs. You alter somebody's nervous system to not know what happiness is and all they are doing are mundane tasks. I'm willing to bet more people would commit suicide than those who would die in a starving "greedy" world.</p></li>
<li><p>And by that point, you will be mindless.</p></li>
</ol>

23

<p>OP you're smart. I'll have 0 kids to compensate for andrea's excessive breeding. ;)</p>

24

<ol>
<li>Hypocrisy is everywhere, and the truth is fictional [or opinion]. [I'm giggling as I type].</li>
</ol>

<p>4=5. If people give it a try, they just might not mind. To pick a close example, the American colonies did not support life built on prosperity. Everyday life was about survival. It was the introduced idea of "living the dream" quite a long while after that caught up as something radical and (to many people) untried. And not everyone is such a hedonist as to try to gobble up what they can't get. Again, the doctrine of selfishness includes pragmatic compromise, law and discreet betrayal.</p>

<p>3 Solutions only need to go a certain distance to accomplish. We can raise a farm of humans to experiment on. After all, as you're stripping people of rights, I'm free to treat my property (+zygotes) as I please. They're not "entitled" to the work of others... like food and hard-fought liberties.</p>

<p>5 Prove it. I suppose people kill themselves when they can't get what they want, regardless of whether they know about it.</p>

25

<p>Depends on the abilities of the population. A population of 9 billion with the average IQ of 93 is probably gonna be a pretty horrid place. A population of 9 billion with an average IQ of 130 would be pretty sweet. Probably as close as a Utopia as you could have.</p>

26

<p>^^ Agree</p>

<p>Before anyone [I've got someone in mind] tells Mr Payne that IQ is set so that average is about 100, I'll note he probably means "relative to our own current statistics."</p>

<hr>

<p>Now that I'm thinking about it, Mr. Payne, you just critically modified the tide of this conversation. Education and media have a very big effect, but what do you think of eugeny (it's come up several times)?</p>

27

<p>I believe that a Gattaca type situation will occur in the next 50-100 years (assuming the human race still exists).</p>

28

<p>I agree with the OP!
But I could care less!
I'm just a mere mortal!
The world won't end in my lifetime!
I like exclamation marks!</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
OP you're smart. I'll have 0 kids to compensate for andrea's excessive breeding.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>thanks. now i'll have eight kids, since you gave me your two.</p>

30

<p>@GeekNerd

[quote]
1. Hypocrisy is everywhere, and the truth is fictional [or opinion]. [I'm giggling as I type].

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Do you think before you type? If the truth is fictional (a logical contradiction), then I a lack of food will not lead to starving since the truth about eating is after all "fictional".</p>

<p>
[quote]
If people give it a try, they just might not mind.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So you get permission from them AFTER the fact? That is called fraud. It's like I hypnotize you to do my bidding and ask you if you like to be hypnotized while you are under hypnosis.</p>

<p>
[quote]
To pick a close example, the American colonies did not support life built on prosperity. Everyday life was about survival. It was the introduced idea of "living the dream" quite a long while after that caught up as something radical and (to many people) untried.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You really have your history mixed up. Hedonism and greed goes as far back as cavemen. It's really obvious when you look at emperors. Even American colonialism was "hedonism" as it involved killing and slaughter for property.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And not everyone is such a hedonist as to try to gobble up what they can't get. Again, the doctrine of selfishness includes pragmatic compromise, law and discreet betrayal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but are you just trying to sound smart or something? Why can't you make a point without resorting to extraneous vocabulary?</p>

<p>Once again, everybody is a hedonist depending on how you define it. Even altruism is a form of hedonism in some cases since you gain happiness from it. Every act a person performs is selfish, including charity and whatnot. Sacrificed yourself for your family to live? That just means you place their survival as the epitome of your happiness.</p>

<p>To deny that humans are not hedonists is to deny human nature (e.g. not nurture).</p>

<p>
[quote]
3 Solutions only need to go a certain distance to accomplish. We can raise a farm of humans to experiment on. After all, as you're stripping people of rights, I'm free to treat my property (+zygotes) as I please. They're not "entitled" to the work of others... like food and hard-fought liberties.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A thinking human being is not a zygote. Furthermore, even zygotes are human. Killing a zygote is merely asserting domain over your OWN body by refusing to provide shelter for another being. Messing up minds of little kids is outright neglect as children are self-owners. When you bring a child into this world, you are essentially yelling "I will HELP you". If you have the means provide for this person you implicitly agreed to help and you do not do so, you are violating that babies' rights.</p>

<p>Also, what rights am I stripping people of? You're the one suggesting drugging the population without consent or doing infanticide.</p>

<p>
[quote]
5 Prove it. I suppose people kill themselves when they can't get what they want, regardless of whether they know about it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Even people in the most miserable of conditions still have the capacity to feel happiness. It is all that drives people and keeps them sane. Without a capacity to feel happiness, there is no point to anything someone does. This is pretty obvious stuff.</p>

31

<p>Tersely, apart from math/phil and conditional statements, there IS NO specific TRUTH about objects. There are just tatutologies, philosophy and math. That is what I'm trying to say by "fiction". Now excuse me - I'll be back, but that last post of yours assumes morals and law and some hippy "universal truth" control something. They're all only worth what we make them, and most people hardly care about any one person's moral code and "truth." So yes, I think before I type. There is little truth to speak of, and all of any person's specific object-defined truth is in fiction</p>

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<p>still giggling</p>

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<p>ZPG, or NZP (near zero population growth) is a viable option for a privileged population, e.g. the U.S. Perhaps people should look beyond their own desires and really examine their motives before having children. My choice was no children and I find many people highly suspicious of that choice. The usual response is pity, because their first impression is that I am unable to have children. When they find out that it was by choice (and birth control) their next response is believing that I don't like children. I like children. I just didn't/don't have the desire to replicate myself.
In conclusion, would anyone like to sign up to pose as my adult child when I am committed to a nursing home?</p>

34

<p>I think population growth is more of a military problem than a humanitarian problem. I know this statement is highly controversial statement but just think about it for a second.</p>

35

<p>@GeekNerd</p>

<p>The fact that you are debating with me requires you to hold truth to be preferable. So you accept the premise that truth exists independent of the debaters when you debate. If there is no truth value to anything outside of math/logic, then I suppose something like "murdering people" carries the same weight as "helping people".</p>