Chance Daughter c/o 2023: STEM plus dance

Chance Me / Match Me!
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I have been reading a lot of threads and looking at Naviance at my daughter’s school, and would like to know what this community thinks of her chances at top schools. Thank you in advance.

Demographics
US citizen , NC residency
Private K-12, (competitive: 1/3 seniors matriculate at Top25 schools, mean SAT 1400, 93%passrate on all APs, average student takes 3-4APs)

White female, no hooks

Intended Major(s)
Math or Chemistry, maybe Chemical or Mechanical Engineering

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores
4.0 UW
no weighted gpa but 9th &10th received 3As and 11A+s, took all honors available, and has completed these AP courses so far:
AP stat(5), APphysics(5), APChem(5), APCalcAB(5).

11th and planned 12th courses include APEnglishLanguage, APLiterature, APFrench, APHysicsC, APCalculusBC, APComputerScience, Multivariable Calc, Linear Algebra, APGov, APUSH.

  • Class Rank: school does not rank but based on Naviance it has to be close to the top, as her current GPA seems rare on scatterplots

  • ACT/SAT Scores:
    1570 one sitting(770R,800M)
    35 one sitting(36/35/35/35)

Awards
Top Student in Math and Science, 10th grade(only student to receive the award);

Individual Community service award (NC region)from national nonprofit fundraising activity

Gold award pending

NMSF in NC is very likely based on 10th gr PSAT scores

Extracurriculars

10th: Led a team to raise significant $ for a national nonprofit that funds cancer research, team won the region/state of NC (top team out of 17 teams in the region); has continued to work with the nonprofit and currently serves on the student board and as a mentor to the new group of student fundraisers/teamleaders.

Classically trained in Ballet since age 6: currently highest student level in a professional company school, dances about 20 hrs a week and has been selected through auditions to perform with the professional ballet company in student roles; selected for student performance group every year eligible(since 6th grade); has also been selected by the company to tour in another area of the state with the professional company.

Girl Scout Gold Award in progress

French club leadership

Science club leadership hopefully next year

Quiz Bowl team

Summers: Summer Intensives in Ballet at her own school as well as auditioned and selected for two highly ranked company summer programs;

Summer python programming course; summer and school-year programming projects with Stanford and MIT graduate students

Mentored Science research project about to start, hopefully will be an ongoing project through next year; other opportunities including exploring engineering research opportunites are in process.

Before Covid, performed in two different local musical theater productions (auditioned); unable to do school-year musicals due to ballet commitment every day after school for 3-4 hrs.

Orchestra: Violin; selected for Regional orchestra

Essays/LORs/Other

current junior–not done yet. Based on teacher comments in 9th and 10th, is well regarded as one of the top students

No budget: no cost constraints/full pay

Schools
She has safety schools within the State of NC system.

Please chance for reaches: Has visited all but one, all have options for continuing some level of ballet either at the school or in the city/close by, which is currently an important factor.

Harvard
Columbia
MIT
Yale
Princeton
WashU
Vanderbilt
UVA
Wake
UChicago

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Duke and Stanford also have student ballet companies. Will your daughter be submitting an arts supplement?

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My daughter had similar academics and scores, was also a strong violinist and loved the performing arts.

If you are considering Columbia University, here is an added option, covering both dance (https://dance.barnard.edu/) and stem (STEM | Barnard College).

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My daughter was also a STEM ballerina. Neither Wake or UChicago have ABET accredited mechanical or chemical engineering, so if that’s a true interest, she needs to carefully consider which schools will offer it. She certainly has the stats, and while I understand she has safeties, you might consider adding a few matches to her reachy list less unless she’s extremely excited about her safeties.

Specifically for ballet and continuing to perform on pointe - if that’s her desire - she should look hard at opportunities at MIT, Yale, UVA and Vanderbilt and consider adding Duke, Johns Hopkins and University of Southern California. The opportunities for ballet specifically are very different at schools, so if that’s something she wants to continue, the search is a bit tougher.

For matches she might consider University of Richmond (although they also don’t have engineering) and Case Western. And for safeties University of South Carolina’s ballet was much stronger than North Carolina’s publics in my daughter’s opinion.

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Agree that’s a key question. Is dance just the EC that gets her into a top school or something she wants to be part of her college experience and/or life thereafter? My D18 had similar stats (4.0/35/8 5s in APs) and decided quite late on she wanted to apply for a ballet BFA and then do a double major. That meant a very different set of schools, many of which were safeties academically but reaches for the audition based ballet programs. On the other hand she got some great merit offers, including an OOS tuition waiver at UT Austin, Regents scholarships at a couple of UCs, and a full ride (that she took) at another public flagship. But at many schools (like JHU) it’s very tough to double major in 4 years.

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You’re asking for chances. I don’t see anyone writing back on that.

Wow your daughter is beyond impressive. She can get in anywhere. Doesn’t mean she will but she can. Congrats to her.

Wake and UVA, even OOS are near definite and VANDY, WUSTL, and maybe Chicago are likely. The others 10-20% chance. There’s just too many equally as great.

Best of luck to her.

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Your daughter has the basic building blocks of getting admitted to a top college. Her GPA and scores are top notch. However the combination of STEM + ballet is quite unusual. What does she want to get out of college? Good STEM education? Or to become a professional ballerina? These are somewhat mutually exclusive of each other as I don’t see many colleges that do both of these well.

Columbia makes sense but realize that attending SEAS along with the Core will make things difficult – especially for something like ballet that requires a lot of practice. You also listed Harvard at the top of the list. Their engineering programs are somewhat new.

Since you are full pay, work with her to find a clear first choice – and apply EA/ED. Have a good plan in place for ED2, and then RD. Second thing I would recommend is to get a good college counselor and pay for advice on how to organize the EC list. Right now the ECs are all over the place and don’t convey a clear theme. Packaging expertise (esp on the Common App) will really help. Your daughters grades are excellent and are the star attraction. Keep in mind that the Adcom readers will spend less than 2 mins reading her application. So the less extraneous stuff, the greater they walk away with a clear picture of your daughter and how she fits into the future class.

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Your daughter sounds like a wonderful student with a very strong, and interesting, resume. That being said, it is a little early to chance as it is only the beginning of junior year. If she finishes this year as strongly as she did her freshman/sophomore years, she’ll be a strong candidate for any school. How important is the dance component? Is it just a very important EC or does she want to pursue it seriously in college? That will guide your eventual choices. An engineering program will be very demanding and may be tough to complete while dancing 20 hours a week so she’ll need to keep that in mind. All the schools you have listed are high reaches for all kids although I think she has a good chance at UChicago, WashU, Vandy and Wake. I’d add UVA but you are out of state which makes it tough. Good luck.

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Yes, she will submit an arts supplement with classical variation solo(s) and modern depending on the school

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Thank you for the chances–yes, ideally I am looking for chances at these reach schools!

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It’s a crap shoot. They have 5-10% admit rates for a reason !!

If NMF you may add USC. $$ for NMF.

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I know some really outstanding kids similar to your daughter who were rejected at all of their reach schools.

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@Twoin18 @Darcy123 @sgopal2
Ballet is primarily an EC: a very intensive one not leaving a lot of time for other things. It is what she loves, and hopefully AOs will see that dedication and passion. She is a great writer so I am sure she can convey it. Her main other interest/ focus is science and math(I neglected to include the math ECs), plus the multiple-year commitment to and impact on the national non-profit.
She has gone back and forth, but the current plan is not to pursue a professional ballerina career. Her company school does have success at placing students in Butler or Indiana (the main ones the ballet school recommends), but they also have had kids go to Harvard, Princeton and dance in school companies and/or pursue nearby training. Those schools seem to have plenty of similar intense-ballet kids who are in their “companies”.
Currently, she would rather be in an intellectual-fit college in case she gets injured or changes her mind and isn’t as interested in ballet.

I’ll have her look into JHU, Duke, Stanford.

The GC at her school helps with packaging and chancing as well, but that happens later in junior year. She knows her already and has gotten some preliminary feedback on how her record so far stacks up.
Based on Naviance, it does seem Wake is an easier admit from her school–I am glad to hear others on here agree it is not really a reach. Her HS does have unhooked kids in the top group get into ivy-like schools fairly regularly, but it is still hard to know what her particular chances are.

Thanks!

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Yes I’d agree with Butler and Indiana for classical ballet. Oklahoma and Utah usually come next. USC (SoCal) is very strong but not as classical. Not sure about double majoring, but I think USC is feasible, Utah and Oklahoma are definitely fine, but Indiana isn’t. Not sure about Butler.

Of the three above, I don’t know Duke, but JHU is inconveniently organized as Peabody is a separate site and may restrict participation in performances to their own BFAs. As far as Stanford goes. @SCMHAALUM ’s S went there in 2018, but last I heard (pre-Covid) the standard on campus wasn’t really up to his previous experience and it’s too far to go to SF for outside training. Not sure if they were able to solve that.

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In addition to her video, a well constructed résumé of her dance and violin performances with variations/pieces studied could underscore her mastery and dedication. Perhaps address how the pursuit of the two art forms enhanced both. My daughter did the same.

If your daughter has any interest in choreography and can create something before applying next year, she should consider adding that to her arts supplement. These organizations need leaders and those who can create original content for performances.

Columbia, for example, has a number of ballet organizations on campus. Some do rep and classical variations while another produces new choreography. Many of their students study challenging degrees as do those at Harvard, Princeton, etc. One doesn’t need to dance 20 hours at college to do ballet either. Yale’s ballet club is newer, but the school values the arts highly and I believe is trying to make progress in ballet.

Finally, I think creativity is an important asset for STEM, as it is for almost any field or life in general. Address that directly…they are not mutually exclusive.

Your daughter has great academic rigor, which she has succeeded in while accomplishing many challenging ECs. Admissions for the top schools has become exceedingly difficult, but essays and supplements that thoughtfully reveal her development, intellectual connections, and growth should make her memorable. The rest of her application is solid. Good luck!

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50 to 75% of the applicants are on par with your daughter at many of the highly selective reaches. They are reaches for everyone when only 4 to 5% are getting in.

It is impossible to really know the chances until after the fact. You can read through strands with equally talented and driven students who did not get into any of their high reaches. You will see things that make no sense mathematically on paper - denied at Vanderbilt and Dartmouth, but accepted by Princeton. Denied out of state at UNC and UVA, but accepted at MIT. Help her find colleges where she can thrive (it is ok if that is not a T20 college) and her essays will make more sense.

Please do not let her burn out this year. Junior year matters, but she has to survive it. Those 10 APs over these two years is too much for anyone never mind the grueling ballet schedule and her other activities. Colleges do not expect that. They are looking for students to have a healthy balance, too.

Tour colleges with her and have her make a list of things that matter. Those things may evolve over the next 18 months. That is natural.

Do not feel the pressure to have her ED somewhere just because others are doing it at school. Unless she really ends up with a top choice next September/October. She will have great choices and will want to compare how she can structure her schedule. Your in state safeties are fabulous and she will be offered significant merit at other state flagships.

Remind her to enjoy high school.

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This is true. My daughters hs valedictorian had a 4.0 with 4.5 or 4.6 wtd…likely 10-12 AP. Applied to 16 of top 20!! Rejected all In at NYU full pay and attends UTK with big merit.
But her ECs were not as strong. To me ballet is unique and schools want unique. She is clearly committed as she’s studied since she was 6. And she has other strong attributes.

But it is a lottery. You are absolutely correct having a few matches and safety or two is a smart strategy even for the kid who ultimately ends up at Harvard.

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It is not a lottery! OP- Your kid is an extremely competitive candidate. Her stats and accomplishments will likely get her through to second and third rounds of consideration at several of these schools.

Ultimately her LOR and essays will become deciding factors along with the specific needs of the schools. She can enhance her chances by customizing her application to show an understanding of what the various schools uniquely offers and how it will allow your daughter to excel and contribute to the schools community.

For those that say it is a lottery I would highlight the numerous unhooked students who gained multiple acceptances at elite schools. Their experience suggests acceptance isn’t random or luck but driven by both their core achievements (OP has these) and their attention to detail on completing the “soft” aspects of the application.

OP good luck and no I can’t handicap likelihood of acceptance but I can assure you that the quality of the application matters so take comfort knowing your daughter can influence (not dictate) outcomes.

When you indiscriminately apply to elite schools for prestige with no sense of purpose it isn’t a lottery it is a fool’s errand. Thankfully OP’s list seems well considered and consistent.

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It’s a lottery in the sense and someone else mentioned that you have people in at Princeton but not at a lesser school like WUSTL. I know someone on merit scholarship at Vandy but rejected at Tulane. There are cases of people in at MIT but rejected at top publics.

You are correct In that yea, you need to have the best portfolio and present it right. You need to show just not how you fit but how you will add value.

But the assumption is each kid is doing that. Hence it is a lottery.

Don’t forget schools are trying to achieve a balanced class. Two equal students - one from Wyoming May snag a spot over one from NY. A person who speaks Farsi as a second language may win over one who speaks Chinese. Someone who plays oboe might get in over a Clarinet.

The assumption that one is putting their best food forward doesn’t not make it a lottery. It is positioning yourself in the best possible light. But your odds in this case are still limited. That’s all I’m saying.

There are no guarantees.

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Lotteries don’t allow the participant to influence the outcome nor have the winners of a lottery preformed at a level to distinguish themselves relative to others.

Suggesting it’s a lottery diminishes those that gain acceptances and suggests that something in their application of performance didn’t distinguish them but instead luck prevailed. Candidates that don’t get accepted are no less worthy but the results aren’t totally random like a lottery and the analogy suggests a degree of passivity in outcome that is not supported by experience or fact.

Knowing a person here or there that might suggest a narrative is anecdotal at best. The reality is that the top tier of RD students typically have several schools to choose from suggesting results that support a meritocracy of sorts while some randomness clearly exists.

Communicating to the OP that it is a lottery insults all of the daughters achievements to date and falsely implies that she lacks the ability to further impact her chances.
OP encourage your kid, she is a great candidate. There are clearly no guarantees and she should find some safe schools with good fit but keep up the excellent work!!