Duke vs Georgia Tech vs Michigan vs Brown (CS / ECE)

College Search & Selection
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It’s getting down to the wire and my son is leaning towards Duke for CS / Electrical Engineering. With his permission, I am posting here in case there’s something we missed. We have visited all four campuses.

A bit about him: He lives and breathes engineering, computer science, math, and his FIRST robotics team. He is the consummate tinkerer…always choosing to build and create rather than watch TV, be lazy, etc. He prefers cool weather over hot. He also appreciates sports, fantasy football, etc. He’s very easy going, enjoys small groups of close friends, and is not a partier.

Cost: We are full pay and OOS for GT and Michigan. We did get some aid from Duke and Brown. Of the four schools, GT is the cheapest option.

Duke ($8,000 more per year than GT):
Pros:

  • He loves their CS / ECE double major option, as well as their robotics certificate and machine learning concentration. Overall, the program seems flexible with the ability to pursue multiple areas of interest.
  • A “smallish” private with great advising, smaller class sizes, and the ability to form personal relationships with peers and professors.
  • The closed campus appeals to him
  • Good sports teams
  • Guaranteed housing for at least 3 years
  • Diverse student body (not just STEM kids)
  • Brand new engineering building, right in the center of campus

Cons:

  • CS and engineering programs are not as robust or as highly ranked as GT and Michigan
  • Durham is pretty warm and that’s not his preference (though it’s quite shady on campus!)
  • Far from home (about 10 hours)

Georgia Tech (full pay, but cheapest of the four):
Pros:

  • highest ranked CS and ECE programs of the four
  • Robust program with lots of amazing courses to select from
  • Nice closed campus with access to opportunity in Atlanta
  • Lots of kids like him, lots of STEM clubs.

Cons:

  • Stress Culture
  • Lots of kids like him - not as much diversity of “interest”
  • Atlanta is even hotter than Durham
  • Even further from home (15 hours)
  • Bigger state school, harder to stand out, get into classes, form relationships with professors
  • Need to select a major right away and can’t double major in CS and ECE. No exploratory first year engineering class.
  • CS is in the computing school and ECE is in engineering. Need to figure out his path quickly.
  • We hear the dorms and food aren’t great

Michigan (the most expensive of the four, $18,000 more per year than GT):
Pros:

  • Awesome engineering and CS programs, just about on par with GT
  • Amazing number of facilities - engineering has it’s own campus
  • Football. The Big House is calling to him :slight_smile:
  • A first year exploratory engineering class helps kids hone in on their interests
  • CS is right in the engineering program, so very easy to select ECE or CS
  • Yes, he actually prefers Michigan weather over North Carolina weather!

Cons:

  • HUGE, easy to get lost in the crowd
  • The social scene was not really his thing. The campus is truly integrated with the city of Ann Arbor. Too busy and chaotic for him
  • Housing only guaranteed for one year; headache of having to find a place to rent every year
  • He preferred the quieter, more serene vibe of the engineering campus…but did not like that it’s a 15 minute bus ride away from the main campus.
  • Far from home (10 hours)

Brown ($11,000 more per year than GT)
Pros:

  • Open, flexible curriculum, hardly any gen eds, ability to design a program tailored to his various and personal interests
  • Grade inflation, seems very chill
  • Close to home (2 hours)

Cons:

  • CS and Engineering lowest ranked of the four
  • Doesn’t seem as “fun”
  • No good sports teams

As I said above, he is really leaning towards Duke. His only hesitation is that he is giving up two very highly ranked and robust engineering / CS programs. We know that with engineering, the caliber of the major is more important than the overall caliber and prestige of the school. (It’s also hard to say no to an ivy that’s pretty much right in your own backyard!)

He feels that Duke will give him the best combination of “really good program” and "personal fit ".

We’d love to hear your thoughts!

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(assuming 8k * 4 wont break the bank)

Can’t make a mistake with Duke …

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Correct, we are fine paying the extra money for Duke.

We’d also be OK with paying for Michigan if that was 100% the best school for him.

Of course, it’s always nicer to pay less :slight_smile:

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Seems Duke has a perfect combination of quality, flexibility, size, fun factor and prestige.

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Does he have any idea what he likes to do after college? Does he want to go to graduate school?

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While “on-campus” housing isn’t guaranteed after freshman year at Michigan, there’s plenty of availability, if you want to live on campus. Michigan just can’t guarantee it. Most kids prefer to live “off-campus.” In the past few years, there’s been several new apartment buildings built, so it’s honestly just picking based on location and budget, no other difficulties than that.

My D is staying in her same building for junior and senior years. Pretty simple and we got a discount for the renewal.

They’re all great choices. Best of luck.

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That is a great question! I think he’d love to work with robotics in some capacity. I don’t see him as a head-down-all-day programmer. He actually LOVES to talk to non-STEM people about STEM, if that makes any sense. He is very personable and is an articulate communicator so I can definitely see him leading some some type of team one day.

I am definitely not a STEM person myself so I’m not sure how good of a description that was! Overall, he is a kid whose interests within engineering have evolved over the years…from mechanical, to electrical, and now programming. He is a curious learner who dives into anything that interests him.

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Thank you for the reassurance on the Michigan housing situation!

We just got back from our very first visit to Ann Arbor and I think we all felt a little overwhelmed at how busy it is. Lovely, exciting…and busy! (And, seriously, that law quad may be the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen)

Anyway, as we drove around we saw all the houses and apartment buildings and wondered how we’d ever make sense of it all. I’m glad to know it’s not as confusing as it seems at first blush.

How would you say the social atmosphere is? The huge fraternity and sorority houses, along with all the restaurants, and “stuff” to do, led us to believe it’s a very social place. I’m sure that’s a huge bonus for most kids, but my son is more on the quiet side socially. Being a non-partier, would he feel out of place within the larger community?

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I come from a place of bias but I would heartily endorse Georgia Tech. The CS and engineering curricula are among the very, very best in the US. Some disciplines, such as industrial engineering and cyberspace (and several others) are ranked #1 in the US. Students are very passionate about what they do and the networking/employment prospects can’t be beat. The facilities are truly outstanding. Although it’s obviously a STeM-focused school, there are plenty of business majors floating around, as well as students enrolled in other non-STEM majors. The academic rigor is not to be taken lightly, but students work and study together and truly support each other. Internships and coops are extremely popular. Also telling is the fact that so many kids opt to return to campus over the summer; they’re involved in many things and they enjoy being there.

As for non-academic pursuits, there is a club for everything, as well as a frat for every type of personality, should that be of interest. Sports are popular, and the campus went nuts when the basketball team won the ACC and got into March Madness this year. The football team has a new coach, just going into his third year, and they are slowly building up and improving. There are several D-1 sports at GT.

Many campus traditions can be found, if you’re into that sort of thing (we are) — everything from good-natured pranks to hokey contests and races that have been going on for decades. The school has two awesome fight songs and of course, the Budweiser Song (personal favorite) — played not only at sporting events but at midnight during finals. Bobbing required.

Atlanta is a great backdrop, and students frequently venture to Piedmont Park, Ponce Market, Buckhead and other places. The campus, however, is a space unto itself, and quite nice. It’s actually a nationally registered arboretum, as it hosts so many species of trees. The airport is very easily accessible; one can jump in a 20-minute Uber/Lyft, or take Marta (takes about a half hour). I do both. Depends on how heavy my bags are. Flights to major US destinations run all day long.

All in all, it’s a great place. Congrats on all your choices. You obviously have a very accomplished son.

I wish I could help you with the weather but I concede that point. Atlanta is hot. It does start to cool down around October, though. This past winter had quite a few really cold days, come to think of it, even with a little snow.

Freshman housing is ok, nothing to write home about. Students can stay on campus after the first year. Many upperclassmen opt for on-campus apartments, while quite a few others choose to live in one of the many student apartment buildings in Tech Square. GT just ditched its dining contractor and is starting a whole new venture next fall.

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My D was placed in West Quad and decided to stay on that West side post-freshman year. There are several newer complexes that have been built, like Vic Village, which is literally across the street from East Hall, or 618 South Main, a few blocks from campus closer to the stadium, 411 Lofts (slightly older, but newish), etc.

I think students tend to all stay in the same ones or get a house nearby that gets cut up 10 different ways. :slight_smile:

The % of students in Greek Life at Michigan is in the 20-25% area (male versus female %), but the CDS will have the most accurate stats. My D isn’t the biggest partier since there’s no time for that. Too much work to do.

You can certainly find parties Thursday-Saturday, but you certainly don’t have to go to them. Let’s be honest, the workload is a lot. So, after football games on Saturdays, my D is studying Saturday night. I think you just find your cohort. My D who loves sports lives with roommates/friends who really don’t nearly as much as her.

Yep, the Law Quad is beautiful, but as an undergrad student, I don’t think other than walking past it, that you ever go there.

Just look at a Central Campus map. While Engineering classes will be on North Campus, Central Campus is like going to a mall. There’s buildings on all four sides and your math, chem and physics classes will be held in some of them. The library is right on The Diag too.

Also, there’s two areas adjacent to campus for food and shops. South University at the southeast end of Central Campus and South State Street at the Northwest end of Central Campus. I was born in a big city, so I think of Ann Arbor and Central Campus as being compact.

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Thank you for the lovely endorsement of GT…You gave us a lot to consider!

I think the thing that most concerns my son (and you touched on it a bit) is the stress at GT. He certainly isn’t expecting college to be stress-free, but I think he’s looking to escape the “grind”in some regards. In high school he was a high achiever but, as we all know, that comes at a price. He spent hours doing homework, going to activities, often forgoing some of the more social benefits of relaxed teenager-hood. I think he’s looking for a college experience with a little more balance. He’s concerned that, at GT, it would be so much work that it would be a repeat of the “keep your head down and work” mentality.

Do you think the rumored stress culture at GT is overblown?

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Duke isn’t the strongest in engineering or CS among this group. For example, it seems to have only one robotics course (EE383/ME442: Introduction to Robotics and Automation):
https://registrar.duke.edu/sites/default/files/bulletins/2020-21%20Undergraduate%20Bulletin.pdf

It may not matter much though if you son plans to go on to graduate school afterwards.

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I will try to answer your question using personal knowledge (I.e. my child and kids from the friend group). Georgia Tech is very, very hard. I would be lying if I said it wasn’t. The payout comes after graduation when students (particularly CS and engineering majors) are armed with the GT degree and employers come courting. We have received one or two panicked, middle-of-the-night phone calls of the “I am going to fail my classes” variety. (The feared result did not come to pass.) Nonetheless, by the end of the summer after first year, my student was very active in Greek life, had several friend groups going (Greek and non), was involved in numerous clubs, had attended several sporting events, worked at an on-campus job because they wanted to, scored a serious research gig with authorship credit, exercised regularly (running) and had a 3.8 average. Was absolutely devastated when campus closed down when the pandemic hit. Friends held each other through that last night and cried, sleeping together on the floor in somebody’s dorm room.

Fast forward and now, there have already been several paid internship offers. This is very, very common among GT kids.

My point is that although there is substantial academic rigor and stress does come with it, there are ample other outlets for fun and somehow, there is time to enjoy other things. I suspect that sometimes, this comes at the price of good sleep, but they seem to be able to work around that. Students are very supportive and collaborative.

The campus plans to return to in-person learning in the fall, which will be very welcome because the kids really can’t stand remote learning anymore. It should be an exciting time.

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Thank you…very helpful to hear actual experiences. Much appreciated!

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I have a sophomore son at Georgia Tech. He is a very happy go lucky no stress person. He is very happy at Tech. It is true though that Georgia Tech is very, very hard and quite a few kids struggle. All of these kids were at the very top of their class in high school and now a majority are not. Some kids honestly don’t handle the challenge very well, either because they have (often preexisting) depression/anxiety/coping issues, don’t have time management skills or are kids who “never had to work in high school” and go into Tech with the same idea.

Georgia Tech will be a lot of work. They tell you going in that you need to allow anywhere between 3 to 6 hours outside of class for every hour you spend in class. There are lots of kids that are able to do that, make good grades, and have an active social life.

One benefit to Georgia Tech is everyone is in the same boat. At some schools, it is the engineers and the architecture students that are in a grind and everyone else has much less work. That won’t happen at Georgia Tech.

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It depends on the career goals of your son which one to choose. If he wants to go to FAANG companies/do postgrad then pick GT or Michigan

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If he’s truly the engineering type that likes to tinker/build/break stuff I can’t imagine better places than GT or Michigan. Especially if he’s interested in AI/ML/Robotics. For comparison GT only has 19k undergrads. That’s not a huge school.

Every top school will be high pressure to some degree. It’s unavoidable when you mix smart, high achieving kids. You have to know how your kid will react to not being the smartest or always making “A’s”…and he wouldn’t at GT. Move-in day was hilarious for me and my wife…it was like watching Big Bang Theory live.

My son is at GT for ISyE. It’s tough but he’s pretty realistic and has other interests. I get the feeling that the kids are competitive for grades but more with themselves. I don’t get the sense that it’s cut-throat. The dorms are OK but the food is bad. However, they’re bringing it in-house this summer. Hopefully that will improve things. My son doesn’t like really hot weather and I haven’t heard him complain. After a few weeks in August it starts to cool-off.

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Really Duke people don’t go to FAANG?

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Im not sure some of the figures are correct. CMU for example on their website lists average salary for cs grads as 110k while here its 90k

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3 yr old data, so scale everything up