<p>A piece on Nescac recruiting for the last decade plus. Very good information.</p>
<p><a href="http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9151">http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9151</a></p>
<p>Very good info. Looking forward to the subsequent articles. I think one interesting point was that athletic admissions factors are more regulated than others. For example, a musical or writing talent does not have the same system for admission. </p>
<p>Here’s a link to the other two articles:</p>
<p><a href=“http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9211”>http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9211</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9252”>http://bowdoinorient.com/article/9252</a></p>
<p>Thanks for posting that - haven’t gotten through all of it, but it confirms a lot of what I’ve dug up through CC and other sources. I’m forwarding the links to our GCs, who will now have a full explanation of the process.</p>
<p>Very nice. Thanks for sharing!</p>
<p>“Unlike D-I, there are no specific and differentiated contact, evaluation, recruiting, quiet or dead periods of recruiting activities.”</p>
<p>The above was in one of the articles. I don’t believe this is accurate. I’m quite sure there are dead periods for D-3 recruiting. </p>
<p>It can depend very much on the specific school, sport, athletic director and coach as to how much preference being an athlete will be in the admissions process whether it is D1-3. Also on how desirable the athlete is. In 2007 I know an ivy league school took a 3.0 kid with an 1100 two part SAT score as a hot football prospect Same kid was hotly pursued by the NESCAC schools. </p>
Just read the Bowdoin article. Funny that the track coach mentioned a couple of slots each year, yet in emails with my D he stated that she could run with the varsity but would have to get in on her own. He also stated that athletics plays no role in admissions.
@mcr976 – that coach’s statement is SO not true! It could be that the track coach has used his slots?
( “He also stated that athletics plays no role in admissions.”)
Our HS seems to send one recruit a year to Bowdoin, and many of the other NESCACs.
Nescac recruiting has been the least upfront and least transparent so far in this process for S.
Based on all I have read it appears that either my D is not one of his top recruits or that she could get in on her own and wouldn’t need a tip. Regardless, her times are better than all but one or two of their current cross country runners.
This has always been one of my concerns re:NESCAC recruiting. If u can get in on your own does the coach not bother using tip/slot on you and keep his fingers crossed that u get in? If a kid is well within the academic profile, does the coach give admissions a list of kids so they aren’t the victim of admissions arbitrariness? Just seems risky for a kid to give ED app without some sort of support from coach.
tmvwhv said…
True. These coaches can’t offer money, and the best you can hope for is some level of influence with Admission for a few recruits every year. That is it, which is far less than what most other coaches can offer. But, like most things in life there are trade-offs. These are great schools, and people are willing to roll the dice for the opportunity.
Let’s face it, these coaches are between a rock and a hard place. The coaches can’t promise anything. The best they can hope to do is convince a recruit that one of these low admission rates schools with a fantastic education is the best place for them. They are constantly trying to find overlooked D1 talent kids with exception grades and board scores that will give them an athletic edge in the conference, however the Coach can only do so with the Admissions blessing. It is a tough job, and they probably couldn’t be transparent if they wanted to (because they don’t know everything). I think this is where an experienced NESCAC coach is going to have an advantage because he has a sense for the boundaries in previous years
However as a recruit there is plenty you can do to understand the process and protect yourself. First, try to understand if you are an impact, complimentary or role athlete. Second, SATS and ACTs matter. Do whatever you need to do to get the highest score possible because you are competing with similiar scholar athletes with similiar abilities. Third, is focus on other NESCACs and similiar schools. More schools equals more opportunities for recruitment and offers.
PSM2013 said…
You have to know your level of support. Ask the Coach how he is going to present your son/daughter to Admissions. This is your right to know before you agree to apply ED. You need to better understand the risks to make this huge decisions. I’m not saying don’t apply ED. I’m saying be more informed about what the Coach is going to do if you apply ED. JMO.
Good luck.
As to the question about recruits with academic stats suitable for the school not being supported by the coaching staff, I would make two points. First, no school with admission rates below 15% or so should ever be considered a sure bet, no matter what the recruit’s stats are. Second, how much support a coach can or is willing to give a strong academic student may very well be sport dependent. In my son’s sport (football) he was recruited by four NESCAC schools this cycle. He was above the academic median for the class at each school. Coaches from all promised to get him through admissions. For the most part, the coaches recruiting my son talked in terms of above the line and below the line recruits (the line being the median academic stats for the incoming class). To the best of my recollection, each school in the NESCAC gets 14 recruits per year above the line, and 14 below the line. It may well be that in certain smaller sports coaches don’t have the ability to protect recruits “above the line” as it were, but that is not the case with football, at least at the four schools who recruited my son. Also, it just seems strange to me that in a conference as academically focused as the NESCAC their policy is to punish an athlete who happens to excel academically. I just can’t believe that the policy at Williams (for example) is, when faced with two athletes of like ability, to provide an advantage to the recruit with lesser academic stats.
Ohio Dad: Agree. S, a junior, is currently going through recruiting process for football. There seems to be a marked lack of uniformity among NESCAC schools/coaches as to grades/ scores that are required and the coaches confidence level in admissions decision. Thus, it appears that slots/tips are subject to different criteria and mean different things at different schools. That said, higher academic stats seem always to be regarded as a positive as you suggest.
PSM2013, Your question was: “If a kid is well within the academic profile, does the coach give admissions a list of kids so they aren’t the victim of admissions arbitrariness?” My NESCAC experience is that, yes, even the uber high academic profiles applicants will be accompanied in admissions by the coach showing some indication that the applicant is an athlete earmarked for the team. Trust me, no coach will risk losing his or her no. 1 impact player simply because the stats are above the 75th percentile. On the other hand, a coach certainly will not waste a “slot” on someone with super high marks and scores. They will use the slot on a lower academic profile athlete, and use a tip or otherwise “protect” the academic star athlete. There definitely is method to the madness.
mcr976’s concerns have to do with Bowdoin’s cross country coach suggesting that athletics have nothing to do with admission. It seems to me that there must be a missing piece here. Although I know nothing about cross country, I have seen reviews suggesting that cross country is one of the least likely sports to have set recruiting slots. This may be the case at Bowdoin, as it is at other schools. I still think that cross country would have tips available to the coach. It only stands to reason that if two applicants are essentially similar and one would help the school win a NESCAC meet, the athlete would get in. But, if the coach had already used his tips with other applicants, and had no more to offer, he might well say “you are on your own and athletics will have nothing to do with admission.”
Context is everything.
Most of us worry more about the comments the other way – the coach who indicates that an applicant is going to be admitted but ends up being disappointed. Perhaps it is a positive thing that the coach did not encourage mcr979’s daughter. If she wants to run and has the talent, there are plenty of schools whose programs have the space and that would love to have her. Use it as a divining rod for where not to apply.
I do think the NESCAC process is about as clear as mud. My son did not go very far down that particular rabbit hole, but at the end of the day he was offered support with admissions at Williams, Amherst, Tufts, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Middlebury and Colby I think. In addition, I personally had very detailed conversations with coaches from three different NESCAC schools, including Bowdoin. At no point in the process did I ever hear the words slot or tip. I think some times that we try and define specificity into a situation that is, in reality, opaque. Rather than parsing the language used by a coach and trying to fit it into a preconceived pattern, the important thing to find out is will a particular coach support a particular athlete to the admissions committee. If so, then what is the success rate in getting similar athletes with similar stats through admissions? I would want to get specific answers to those specific questions before beginning to feel comfortable. Personally, if Coach Mills at Amherst said that he would support my kid with a purple star on his application instead of giving him a slot, I wouldn’t care less as long as Mills also told me the percentage of kids who get in with a purple star. But without that information, i would be very uncomfortable advising my kid to submit an ED application.
Specific to mcr979’s daughter, it may be that the Bowdoin coach doesn’t have any support to give for cross country this year because she supported a couple kids last year, or because the overall track program chose to put their assets this year into field events, or sprinters, jumpers, etc. Or maybe they don’t support cross country as a stand alone, and figure that some of the distance runners they recruit for track will turn into cross country runners. Quite honestly though it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that for whatever reason and how ever it is expressed, there will be no support forthcoming from that coach for that athlete.
“if Coach Mills at Amherst said that he would support my kid with a purple star on his application instead of giving him a slot, I wouldn’t care less as long as Mills also told me the percentage of kids who get in with a purple star.”
S got a letter in the mail after Christmas break stating that he was being offered full support. That’s the exact language that we used to gauge son’s chances at the top 20 LAC (non-nescac) that he was just accepted to in the ED2 round. We asked coach how many of last year’s guys that he supported actually got in. We also asked how many from this year’s ED1 round he got. That number was 75%. We then asked what were the factors involved in not getting to other 25%. We also asked what were the academic numbers of kids in the 25% and mitigating factors.
We made the mistake of not being this specific in the ED1 round with another school. Ended up in a deferral to the regular round.
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Congratulations to your son @Tmvwhv. I really do not understand why people seem so hesitant to ask for specific information. This stuff is mother’s milk to the coaches, and most of us only do it once. If a coach gets offended or acts dismissive of a polite request for specific information, well, that is its own kind of answer as well. Recruiting is about fit on both sides of the equation. It is not personal.
Thanks Ohiodad51. We bummed a lot of insight off of you, Chicagomama, fenwaysouth, and numerous others over the last year and a half to arrive upon a great outcome for S. The ED1 deferral was a blessing in disguise as we all felt that his ED2 acceptance was a better fit. And like you said, a coach who is guarded on the direct questions might be all the answer you need. We’d like to pay it forward. Some tips for families currently in the process (specifically football). Below is the Course of action that we took. Some of this has been stated by our CC veteran parents already, so in hat case we’re reinforcing:
Spring 10th grade
-Take the SAT or ACT for practice in the spring of your sophomore year. This allows you to have a talking point with coaches at an early point in the process, especially if the score is decent.
-Fill out questionnaires, if only just to be in a school’s football database. Follow up with an intro email to the recruiting/regional coordinator at each school. A precise college list isn’t important this early, as you want to cast a wide net. 4 semesters into high school isn’t going to show what type up student you’ll end up as. Some kids have no varsity experience at this stage either. That’s ok.
-Don’t get discouraged by lack of response, or “your scores/GPA are not high enough for our program”. You have plenty time to improve on them. Some won’t be interested until you get varsity game film in the fall of junior year.
Fall 11th grade
-Send film at the end of junior season (hudl is best, didn’t use gobigrecruiting at all) to all schools that you’ve ever communicated with. You can insert the film link directly into your email. Set up an account with NCSA (you can manage the process without signing up for their pricey consulting packages if money’s an issue) to get your contact info, stats, film, grades, etc all in one place.
Winter/Spring 11th grade
-The best combines are free. S did US Army and Nike. A good showing will get your name out there. We saved our money for showcases and camps.
-Take ACT/SAT again. This will add you to a few more prospect lists if scores are even better, which they should be after almost a year. Update questionnaires with new test scores and last season’s film if you haven’t.
-Find out where schools on your list will be recruiting this summer. Let coaches know if you’re going to cross paths with them.
Summer prior to 12th grade
-If you can find a camp with several schools in your list, go for it. S attended the New England Elite where it was one stop shopping. More schools than you can imagine. A lot of kids (approx. 1200) but you WILL be evaluated thoroughly in 3 days. S only did the Yale camp a few days before the Elite because a few D3s on his list were there. Try to hit the road to visit campuses, this shows coaches that you’re interested in their schools. Have grades/scores/resumes on hand for meet and greets at camp/campus.
Fall 12th grade
-Take tests again, especially if coaches suggest you do (they are politely urging you to). S didn’t want to but it raised his ACT by 2 points by way of superscoring.
-Send film after about 3 games, more if you’re waiting for better highlights. S sent after 5 games due to playing in a cast for first few games. Sent film along with new test scores.
-Take visits to campus from coaches that have shown genuine interest only. Sporadic communicators, the dreaded “we’d love to have you hear” coaches are probably not worth the expense and missed classroom time.
-Dont freak out if you haven’t gotten an offer of support by October, but ramp up your efforts. Don’t sit and wait on one coach, who’s busy waiting for guys rated higher than you. Other schools have you ranked higher on their lists than the coach you’re waiting for. Tables can turn on any given day. One coach we visited in the summer said that he doesn’t contact recruits until mid December because he wants guys who want to come there instead of chasing them. True to his word, phone rang during Christmas break. Wasn’t S first choice, but great option/school/coach.
S notified the remaining coaches on his list that he was deferred, and made it clear that money was the prevailing factor as to why he went ED1 with them. A few days later he got an email from a coach that he previously told him that the preread came back lukewarm. He asked for current grades and then told S he would be in the area to talk to coaches of a few kids and that he’ll stop by the HS. Said he’d take current grades back to campus for another indication. Two days into the new semester a letter came in the mail offering full support, listing admissions numbers in the ed1 round that just took place. It also urged S to visit campus soon, hoping he would switch his app from regular to ed2. I asked for a phone conference with the head coach on a Sunday night to seek clarification, especially after the charades that took place in the NESCAC for S. Sounded good, mother’s intuition gave it a thumbs up. Fast forward mid February, coach calls to let S know that decisions are being mailed that day, but football raided the office so we find out a few days early that he’s in. This was from a school that S liked, but didn’t consider seriously based on their first preread result. The small tiger parent in me wonders, “how does he get deferred from a Forbes list 40something school to get into one in the teens?”
The recruiting game is not an exact science.