DS is being recruited by Hamilton, and the coach wants him to change to ED2 before next week. He was pretty much set on Muhlenberg, but Hamilton is such a great school and the financial aid would be better. But I worry about him being academically over his head. He’s a decent student, but not anywhere near a top student. He thinks he wants to do mechanical engineering, which both schools have 3-2 or 4-2 programs for, but I’m wondering if he should stick with Muhlenberg and be a more towards the top of the class student, or go to Hamilton, where he’s below the 25th percentile. Advice?
For the academic reasons you’ve stated, it seems as if Muhlenberg would serve as the more appropriate choice. However, if your son’s standardized testing falls in Hamilton’s lower 25th percentile, but still near the 1370 SAT / 31 ACT lower threshold of its middle range, then he could reasonably consider Hamilton provided he wants to prioritize academic achievement as a college student. That noted, pre-engineering physics and math courses at Hamilton would be very rigorous, and its cooperative engineering programs may not be accessible to students who do not perform well in these courses. This latter stricture could be the case for Muhlenberg as well.
Since he is considering a 3+2 program, does he like Columbia (or Dartmouth or RPI in the case of Hamilton as the “3” school)?
Will he be willing to transfer away from the “3” school (and whatever sport he plays) to complete the ME degree?
Will he be able to transfer to the “2” school by meeting its admission requirements?
Will the cost and financial aid at the “2” school be acceptable?
All three “2” schools are now competitive admission to make the 3+2 transfer. (Columbia used to guarantee admission if a high enough college GPA was earned.)
Columbia: https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/combined-plan
Dartmouth: https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/admissions/undergraduate/dual
RPI: https://admissions.rpi.edu/undergraduate/transfer
He has spoken to admissions officers at Muhlenberg, and they beleive he could do the 3-2 (or 4-2) there. He does plan do work hard at college, which he honestly just started doing in high school after moving his sister into Princeton and realizing he too wants a college education; football is just an extracurricular that he happens to enjoy. I see Hamilton has a 5 week “scholar” program for incoming freshman that are first generation and such to help them adapt to the rigors of college, and they also follow them through the 4 years with added guidance and help. Being first generation and definitely on the lower side of the 25th percentile, I’m sure he would be chosen for this program. So most likely with the added help and his commitment to acheive, he could survive. But thrive? Im afraid to take that chance. They have many qualified candidates… Do you think they would admit him if they think he couldn’t do it?
Big fish little pond or Little fish big pond? I encourage you to read the chapter from Malcolm Gladwell’s David and Goliath that talks about a similar scenario.
No, I don’t think that any college wants to admit someone it thinks will flunk out. On the other hand, these guys have been in the business a long time, and they know that every year there is a bottom of the class. I don’t think they care as much as a parent exactly who winds up in that bottom decile, so I don’t know if as a parent my concerns would be alleviated by their recruiting my kid, if that makes any sense?
I wouldn’t self-select myself out of the competition at this point, especially over a proposed major. The combination of football and a 3-2 engineering schedule won’t be easy at either school and IMHO is just one more reason why Economics is such a popular major among athletes attending LACs.
Hardly any kids do 3-2 programs. An admissions officer from Hamilton and one fr Bowdoin explicitly told us that fewer than a handful do it every year. Keep that in mind.
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Agree with @circuitrider and much of the above advice
Adding: Has your DS had a chance to visit both schools? What does your DS think re: the decision facing him?
Hamilton registers a 4-year graduation rate that ties it for fourth in the nation. To the extent that statistics can inform a decision, this might be one to consider.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate
Hamilton College is a very well respected school for academics. If your son wants to be an engineer, he will have to perform at a high level with respect to school work. The 5 week program is attractive & shows concern & commitment for incoming students. This is a tough choice. Without the 5 week program, I would recommend Muhlenberg, but now I think that it really depends upon where your son feels more comfortable since he understands the difference in academic demands & expectations.
We will visit Hamilton Sunday; he already has a visit set up with Gettysburg tomorrow, but I honestly do not believe that will be a contender. Hopefully he will get a good feel one way or another and we will see. My gut tells me Muhlenberg, but it’s hard to overlook a top 20 lac for about 7k less per year. It just sounds crazy saying no to that.
My son is a senior at Hamilton and doing the 2-1-1-1 combined engineering with Dartmouth. Originally he thought he wanted to pursue the Columbia 3-2 and major in Mechanical engineering. For Dartmouth you apply in your Sophomore year and for Columbia you apply in your Junior year. Columbia used to be guaranteed admission provided you meet some very specific course and grade requirements and once admitted for a specific major you were locked in. You could not change it. I am really glad my son decided to pursue the Dartmouth plan. It was definitely a better fit for him for a variety of reasons. Once he started at Dartmouth he realized that he liked Electrical Engineering , more than Mechanical and was able to pursue that without any issues. Also, the Dartmouth curriculum is much more project oriented and has more of an entrepreneurial focus which is what he wanted. He felt that his Hamilton education prepared him extremely well for Dartmouth. He was studying with students from Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Vassar, Colby and he felt he often took more physics courses at Hamilton and had more course requirements waved at Dartmouth than students from these other extremely selective LACs. One other thing that was a better fit for him was the format at Dartmouth. When most of his Hamilton friends were studying abroad, he was at Dartmouth. He is now back at Hamilton for his senior senior, and will graduate with his friends in May. Also, Dartmouth is growing their engineering program and is likely to admit more students in the coming years. They also have preferential/guaranteed acceptance for their MS, MEM, ME and Phd programs for current students who maintain a certain GPA or higher. For him, the Dartmouth plan was a much better fit than the 3-2 at Columbia.
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@akin67, that’s all very good information; thank you. My fear is that my son will find it extremely difficult to follow this path, as academically he is not as strong as most other Hamilton students. We are actually going in a few days to get a feel. Any info on the rigors of Hamilton classes would be greatly appreciated, also!
There is no question the courses are rigorous, however, please note that as long as the student shows any effort, the professors will go out of their way to make themselves available to help the student. Unfortunately Dartmouth treats GPA’s from the partner LACs the same regardless of whether the academics are more or less rigorous at the various partner colleges. Did your son apply to any of the other participating colleges with the Dartmouth program? https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/undergraduate/dual/. Some of these are academically less rigorous and easier to get into. I think there are few on this list where the RD application deadline is February 1st, such as Hobart William Smith and St. Lawrence.
Students at Hamilton interested in engineering should plan on taking Physics 190 and 195, Mathematics through 216, Chemistry 120 or 125, and Computer Science 110 or 112. Mathematics 224 and 235 and Economics 100 may be recommended or required. For information on course content and prerequisites, you can read through these links:
https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=physics
https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=Mathematics
https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=chemistry
https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=Computer%20Science
https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=economics
For 3-2 engineering programs specifically, the completion of six additional physics courses beyond the two mentioned above is “expected” by the Hamilton physics department.