Coronavirus thread for June

Hello everyone.

For context, I’d like to point you to:

I’m worried. The United States is experiencing political tribalism, global pandemic, record unemployment and, as of this week, nationwide protests both violent and peaceful. On top of that, students and parents are dealing with the very real possibility school campuses won’t be open next fall. Worry, fear and stress naturally lead to disputes. We are all in this together, so why do we feel so far apart?

In my 4 months of being around the College Confidential community, I’ve learned that many strong bonds have been formed here. I’ve heard that members of the community have met in real life, celebrated each other’s triumphs and grieved each other’s losses. This is the sort of supportive community we need in this time of trouble.

Unfortunately, I’ve seen and heard of strife in the threads about coronavirus. I know from talking to people individually that there is a supportive community here. From reading the threads, I don’t get that feeling at all. I won’t trouble you with my theories about why that might be. It really doesn’t matter. What does matter is that so much community activity has been increasing division rather than encouraging each other.

Like many community sites, College Confidential makes money via advertising. One of the things I’m responsible for is increasing pageviews on the site in order to increase revenue. Something a lot of people involved in online communities have discovered is that outrage drives traffic. I see that when I participate on Twitter and it’s so frustrating. I also think it’s shortsighted. People get burnt out on outrage and move onto other things. I don’t want that fate for College Confidential.

So I’d like to see this thread focus on how we can help each other in this time of stress. Please bring news that is helpful and avoid trying to score political points. How can we adjust to the world that’s changing before our eyes? Let’s avoid assigning blame or shame.

While you are here, please maintain a civil and respectful attitude. If you can’t agree to that and demonstrate it in your responses, I request you sit this month out. If you are onboard, please be patient as I work through moderation here.

And, on that clear note, I’m out.

In all fairness @ChoatieMom nearly every position, in every organization, from small not-for-profit to medicine to law to anything outside of the government, perhaps, is responsible, in some way, to increase revenues or maintain revenues to support itself as a going concern.

It is my belief that having someone like @CCadmin_Jon supporting more engaged and diverse parental posters, the silent “lurkers” and students is beneficial to the hosting company and the users, ultimately.

Why would that make you less interested in participating ?

Even the commandant of West Point has to deliver a product that both the military and prospective students both want to assure funding streams.

Would you rather I didn’t tell the truth? Hard to tell what your objection is exactly. What I’m endeavoring to say is that I value the long term health of the community over making a quick buck.

I, for one, appreciate what you’re trying to do and don’t mind that you also have a business to keep afloat while doing it.

I’m still in - even though I may be one of those never returning to school as I used to know it. (I haven’t even decided whether I’m returning to school at all.)

I’m looking forward to reading about what people see where they are, what they find in their net searches, and how things progress in general.

Jon I understand that you were saying that outrage drives views, and that the more views, the more revenue. Media earnings work the same way.

I also understand that you were saying you did not want to have outrage drive usage, which would maybe help in the short term, but that you want the responsible, cooperative use that drives long term health of the site.

So what are your theories? If you weren’t going to share, you shouldn’t have mentioned them.

And…back to Covid. Here in Austin, folks are wearing the masks and following distancing in stores. Lots of things opening up due to our Governor’s instructions. Protests today were fairly peaceful, but oh, this has been such a tough week and I’m sad… I come here for encouragement and community. Let’s keep it kind and supportive, even if we disagree about certain things.

So someone jogged my memory, and I looked up something from my early childhood-The Hong Kong flu epidemic of 1968 (H3N2, I think), which killed more than 100k Americans, mostly over age 65, at a time when the US population was much smaller (source, CDC). I don’t remember anything like the current reaction among the public. Does anyone remember that or the response?

Apparently it was all in 1968, per CDC. I don’t know which months. There must be a month by month breakdown somewhere, but I didnt find it in the CDC article.

The Hong Kong flu showed up the US in September of 1968. It hung around and infected people in the 1969-70 winter too, but in the US the first winter was worse.

But I don’t understand comparing a disease that has already killed over 100,000 Americans in three monthseven though we have drastic shutdowns to a flu that killed 100,000 over a year and half with no shutdowns.

Do you think the shutdowns made no difference? Do you think if we’d just carried on, as we did in 1968, we would still have had no more than 100,000 deaths?

My theories regarding the Hong Kong flu. One: We were knee deep in Vietnam. Two: We didn’t have the internet. Three: According to Wikipedia started in July 1968 but was not over until Winter 1969/70. Second wave was deadlier than the first. Apparently there was a vaccine, but I’d guess not widely used. I certainly never heard of anyone getting a flu vaccine back then.

From Brittanica:

Depends on the source, but US deaths are estimated to have been in excess of 100,000. Which works out to around 500 deaths/MM. Probably much higher in some areas of the US, lower in others.

Mentioned this on the other thread, but:

I was rolling newspapers for my older brother at the time, reading the front page as I went and reading most of the rest after I was done.

Woodstock, the daily Vietnam war body counts, riots and protests, but… I’ve no recollection of the Hong Kong flu being front page news at the time. Sure it made the front page but wasn’t dwelt on, day in day out.

Different times, different expectations I suppose.

No it was over 3 years and the second wave was worse than the first wave. No surprise there.

“1968 flu pandemic, also called Hong Kong flu pandemic of 1968 or Hong Kong flu of 1968, global outbreak of influenza that originated in China in July 1968 and lasted until 1969–70.“

“The pandemic occurred in two waves, and in most places the second wave caused a greater number of deaths than the first wave.“

https://www.britannica.com/event/1968-flu-pandemic

I keep being amazed by the people who are asking why we should do social distancing when, after all, the reality, however terrible, has not been as dire as was originally predicted. The reality is not as dire BECAUSE of the social distancing measures that were undertaken. IT WORKS.

If COVID-19 killed 100K people and was over and done, you could argue that it was comparable to a really bad flu year. The problem is that without social distancing, this virus seems to spread like wildfire , the cases doubling every few days. And it’s likely that 95% of the population of the US is still vulnerable to the virus. Not to mention that 20 times the number who died recovered but are facing severe health challenges like diminished lung capacity, strokes, etc. I don’t think we will go back to the same explosive growth of cases that we had in the beginning, largely because the majority of the population doesn’t want to roll the dice with this disease. I don’t know anyone who is willing to go eat in a restaurant right now, for example. But that means that a lot of the economic harms that will come from the virus will happen regardless of government intervention.

And finally… with respect to those who cannot get healthcare for non COVID-related probems — many, many more would die if the hospitals across the country were currently overflowing with COVID patients.

Various sources seem to be conflicting about the total deaths in the US, with some saying 34,000 and some saying 100,000, with the latter being more common.

That pandemic was over two seasons (1968-69 and 1969-70). The US was supposedly unusual in that most deaths (one source claims 70%) occurred in the first winter, unlike in most other countries where most deaths occurred in the second winter. A vaccine was available early, but may not have been available in large numbers.

This flu was a then-new H3N2 virus, apparently related to a previous H2N2 human virus and an H3N? avian virus. Variants of this virus are still targeted by influenza vaccines (the H3N2 part of the vaccines).

As far as the public reaction at the time, it was probably slowed by:

A. The generally higher risk of life during that time (other infectious diseases for which there were no vaccines or early less effective vaccines, poor auto safety compared to today’s standards, pollution, then-rising violent crime that may have been due to lead pollution, lack of medical treatment for what are now treatable medical problems, getting drafted into a war, etc.).
B. News was disseminated much more slowly, and most people got it from outlets that were less sensationalist and opinion-based than now. The daily newspaper kept editorials and opinions in a clearly marked section; in contrast, many people get their news instantaneously from social media or television channels where the norm is add sensationalism and opinion into the news.
C. There was other news taking up the front page of newspapers and the main part of TV news programs at the time.

I was so disappointed when CC closed its Politics Thread and then I basically backed away when the new website was put in. The fact that there has been a loosening of restrictions on political speech has drawn me back. Just not that interesting to me to talk about shoes and handbags. I do appreciate moderation that tries to keep it civil though. It disturbs me when a poster tells another poster that they do not have a right to make their post.

I’m confused. Is this the new Covid-19 discussion thread - or something else?

It’s the June discussion thread.

Not yet June in Ca but I’ll post about a conversation I had with one of my kids. She said she is reading online about people who are unhappy with our county mask ordinance. They are saying they will go shopping in the next county to avoid having to wear a mask. Pretty childish in my opinion. How hard is it to wear a mask. The other county has a no visitor from outside the county ordinance so not sure that they want our county citizens germs. She has also lived in several other areas of the US and noticed via Facebook that those in two of her previous states people are socializing a lot more.
One of my other children lives in another part of our state. Her and her husband went out to lunch with a friend at a dine in restaurant. Staff were wearing masks but most of the customers were not. Food was served on real plates but the menu was throwaway.

Tomorrow I’m going back to physical therapy for the first time since early March. I will be required to wear a mask.
I hope this thread can stay civil. It saddens me that our country like these threads is so strongly divided.