<p>^^That’s for sure, kayf. It always astounds me when I hear some of these CEO’s talking about there aren’t enough qualified people in the field in this country to hire, so they MUST get people from overseas (who work longer and cheaper, of course).</p>
<p>Uh, yeah, Mr. Gates…but then again, what about all the qualified Americans who are lining up at the door to get hired at Microsoft? And lucky to even get the interview?</p>
<p>“That said, yes there are those who’ve put in the effort and ended up at subpar jobs. And while unfortunate, that’s not the case for most in that position.”</p>
<p>hehe maybe subpar is too strong a work but I think its quite common that those that put in the effort end up in “lesser” jobs than they would have been put in previously.
Everyone’s gone down ring.</p>
<p>“My son found a job after college graduation last May…he’s probably unemployed for a college degree but these things come with time.”</p>
<p>Wonder when I will no longer be underemployed. And I graduated in 1983.</p>
<p>“I don’t even know what I’m looking for,” says Michael Bledsoe, who described months of fruitless job searches as he served customers at a Seattle coffeehouse. "</p>
<p>First, may I congratulate him for working in the coffeehouse. It beats sitting on the 'rents couch and complaining. However, if HE doesn’t know what he wants, how does he expect anyone to want him? He needs to at least pretend to want to do something! </p>
<p>The job market is not great. Jobs pay less now than they used to. New hire engineers at my H’s auto company do not make nearly as much as they once did. D was very fortunate to be a humanities major who found a job that pays more than those engineers make … but it took her a year to find the job (and she worked in a coffeehouse in between). It is a different world … but then again, I recall massive layoffs at H’s company in 1981. He was the only new hire who didn’t get laid off. And a friend survived the 1976 layoffs when he was a new hire. It’s not really new. It’s just that the outlook for raises, promotions, etc doesn’t seem as rosy as it used to.</p>
<p>^I absolutely agree with you. </p>
<p>Most students do not take unpaid internships. I didn’t and I wouldn’t advise others to either. </p>
<p>In reality, most internship positions are in fact paid. Most reputable companies would not hire an “unpaid” intern.</p>
<p>My D could not afford unpaid internships in the summer. She did unpaid internships during school, balancing them with classes. In addition, she did paid summer research AND an unpaid internship one summer. But yes, unpaid internships are not a luxury most students have … my D was lucky to have great aid & a summer research prof who let her make her own hours.</p>
<p>My son and several friends all attended the same state university. All had 10-16 hours AP credits going in. All had full-time major-related summer internships at least two summers. All majored in engineering, business or a science. All will graduate in May in four years. All have substantial job offers. Life is good for those with a math and/or science aptitude.</p>
<p>Life is good for those with a math and/or science aptitude. </p>
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<p>Not aptitude … INTEREST. My D has an amazing math/science aptitude. Just no interest! :)</p>
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<p>Isn’t that the normal case for the numerous students who choose majors with no specific job applicability, or where there are far more students than jobs available (e.g. game design, sports management, biology, etc.)? Such students need to be aggressive at seeking internships and post-graduation jobs, and consider a wide range of jobs where a bachelor’s degree is required or desired* but no specific applicability of their major is needed or used.</p>
<p>*In theory, an employer may want someone with a bachelor’s degree due to the theoretically proven ability to study a subject (major) in depth. In practice, such requirements may just be due to creeping credentialism, or the devaluation of the high school diploma.</p>
<p>To kayf:</p>
<p>I used to be one of those H1Bs you blame in all your problems. We do not work longer hours for less money. I was paid decent salary which did not change after I got permanent residency. Cannot you imagine that many foreigners are really better than most local graduates? I work at a university now, and I can see a huge difference between the level of classes (and, as a result, of students) in my home country and here. It’s ridiculous! And yes, we (our department) are looking for more foreign students and faculty - they, in general, have a better background and are much better prepared, more intelligent and hard-working.</p>
<p>The devaluation of the high school diploma has led to the devaluation of a bachelors degree.
Why does it take 8 years to become a physical therapist, when not that long ago 4 years was entry level?
Why does it take 6+ years to become a pharmacist when that also was a 4 year entry level career.</p>
<p>I know a young man who will soon have pharmacy MS but will have paid 300,000 for his degree.</p>
<p>It seems colleges/universities are the store to purchase very expensive careers. .</p>
<p>Whenever I think things are bad, I remember a friend (who has since passed away) telling me that she and her husband got married in 1929. :eek: Yet, by the time I came to know her, she and her husband had raised a wonderful family and lived a very financially comfortable life. </p>
<p>This generation (and our kids) will get through this…</p>
<p>We expect that D will do an unpaid internship to build her experience and resume right after she gets her degree in cinema. Her brother was hired with his EE in his SR year, but many of his classmates. We’re OK with her taking the internship but hope it will lead to a paid position there or elsewhere. We shall see. Am glad that we are in a position to allow her to do this.</p>
<p>Samiamy: Becoming a pharmacist used to be a 5-year degree (at least as far back as the mid 70s, when I was in college), not a 4-year degree. They added one year and eliminated the BS in pharmacy to reflect the additional material that is now needed for licensing and practice, including rotations. There are some 4+3 programs, but there are also some 6-year programs that save students money. That example isn’t a particularly good one although your point on many other fields is accurate. </p>
<p>I’m amazed at the amount of loans your your friend has taken. He or she may have borrowed money even for the undergraduate years and be going to one of the most expensive private programs without any scholarships at all. It’s certainly hard to ever justify taking out that amount of debt, which sounds higher than even the average debt for medical students. Your friend is earning a PharmD if he or she is going to be a pharmacist, not a MS bythe way. </p>
<p>My kid is getting his PharmD now, and will probably have about $80-100K in debt (maybe a little more). Even that amount seems awful to me.</p>
<p>The worst example of unemployed, underemployed students may be in the field of law students right now. I’m constantly amazed by the numbers of liberal arts students who believe that they will be the exception who can find jobs and that the legal market will be different when they get out of law school later with massive debt. It’s heartbreaking. Heck, I couldn’t talk one of my own kids out of it. He was at the top of his major in college and had a job offer from an internship. Three years later with $100K in debt from a top regional law school, he says he’s now unemployable. He can count the 3Ls who have jobs on one hand. It’s tough out there.</p>
<p>“Graduates jobless or underemployed”–so, just another twist on words but what about the kids that start looking for jobs in say, June and get one say 2 weeks later, in their field? Way back when, most kids I went to school with anyway, didn’t have jobs before they graduated, very few actually even looked for jobs until AFTER graduation. We recommended the same to our kids, take a few weeks off, take a trip, relax for a while, then look for a job. Worked out fine so far, 2 down, 2 to go.</p>
<p>NASHUA – When officials discuss the problem of finding enough workers with the so-called “middle skills,” meaning they have a high school diploma but not a bachelor’s degree, a lot of numbers get tossed around. This may be the most surprising: $75,000.</p>
<p>That’s a typical salary for a certain level of auto mechanics graduating from Nashua Community College programs, said Lucille Jordan, the school’s president, at a Thursday morning gathering of the Greater Nashua Chamber of Commerce.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/957929-192/story.html[/url]”>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/957929-192/story.html</a></p>
<p>I know of a couple attorneys that are delivering carbonated beverages to gas stations making over $100,000 year. That is an ok salary around here, not so much in say, San Francisco. Same with that $75K, couldn’t really buy much of a house on that salary here but in rural Kansas, probably a pretty good living. Numbers don’t mean much unless you quantify them.</p>
<p>Dear Pellinen,</p>
<p>The background of most HIBs is not public knowledge, but here is the Times Square Bomber.</p>
<p>[Times</a> Square Bomber’s Immigration History – WASHINGTON, May 13 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --](<a href=“http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/times-square-bombers-immigration-history-93704754.html]Times”>Times Square Bomber's Immigration History)</p>
<p>Please note he graduate University of Bridgeport (a 4th tier college) and took a low level accounting job at Elizabeth Arden and was issued a H-1b.</p>
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<p>$75K is fine in Nashua, NH. Think MA with no income taxes, no sales taxes, lower auto insurance, lower grocery prices, median home price of $189,000, won Money Magazine’s top place to live in the US twice. Add not paying $100K to $200K for a four-year degree and having skills in demand around the country and it can be a decent living. Not luxurious by any means but decent.</p>
<p>When you need to get your car fixed or maintained, do you worry that much about the price? For many, the car is required - it has to be maintained and reliable as the rest of our lives revolve around it.</p>
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<p>What are the statistics on these problematic H1Bs? It appears that allowing this person was a mistake based on current policies. We hire many H1Bs from the best schools in the country - we look for advanced degrees in a particular area and it just happens to be the case that there are many more foreigners in our universities studying in this particular area.</p>
<p>BC Eagles – Your company may be making appropriate use of the H1B program. I am not aware of any statistics on it. I am aware where I live, many accounting firms hire H1Bs, and speaking as an accountant, that is outrageous. When I started work, many years ago, if we could not hire enough people, we had a program that hired liberal arts grads. They were required to attend summer school before they started, and then had special training. Trust me, its not rocket science. Accounting firms can manage. Yes we hire many people with advanced degrees, but we could find other ways. But the H-1Bs will work long hours and not complain.</p>
<p>I used to write accounting systems and that sort of thing was a lot easier than software engineering so, yes, you generally don’t hire Phds in accounting (are there any such programs?). My sister is looking for accounting work in the Bay Area and she’s told me that companies want training in specific applications like Oracle Financials. She’s worked for a long time and the company disbanded a year or two ago. She has experience but not the latest stuff. Fortunately she and her husband are independently wealthy (neither are working, they are sending two to private schools and one of those to a private university this fall).</p>
<p>Last spring, an Indian outsourcing firm contacted my son and offered him an interesting proposition - go out to San Francisco, receive about eight weeks of training on modern application tools (housing included) and work with companies here to outsource work to India. My guess is that they need people here to do the design and communications work here in the US and then pass the development work to be done in India. I think that this is a problem for jobs in the US too. If we can’t get enough H1Bs, then companies like this pop up to move the work offshore. This is the market at work and you really can’t stop the movement of work to cheaper places unless you lower the costs here or the quality of the work product is higher over here. Fortunately the latter is still true for a lot of industries.</p>