15 British sailors detained by Iran...

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/31/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/31/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
An Iranian official said his country had started a legal process to determine the guilt or innocence of 15 British sailors and marines who have been detained by Iran for the past nine days, accused of entering Iranian territorial waters.</p>

<p>If they are not guilty, they will be freed, said Ambassador Gholam-Reza Ansari, who is in Russia.</p>

<p>"But the legal process is going on and has to be completed, and if they are found guilty, they will face the punishment," he said on Russian TV....

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</p>

<p>Interesting article from NRO.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Houses of Straw
The EU?s delusions about the sufficiency of ?soft? power are embarrassingly revealed.</p>

<p>By Victor Davis Hanson</p>

<p>?It?s completely outrageous for any nation to go out and arrest the servicemen of another nation in waters that don?t belong to them.? So spoke Admiral Sir Alan West, former First Sea Lord of the Royal Navy, concerning the present Anglo-Iranian crisis over captured British soldiers. But if the attack was ?outrageous,? it was apparently not quite outrageous enough for anything to have been done about it yet.

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</p>

<p>The rest of the story...</p>

<p><a href="http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGNmMzdmOGM5OTlmMzMxZDAzYjBiZDc4NjI1NjViYzU=%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGNmMzdmOGM5OTlmMzMxZDAzYjBiZDc4NjI1NjViYzU=&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/31/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/31/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Hundreds of Iranian students crowded outside the British Embassy in Tehran on Sunday, setting off firecrackers and hurling projectiles toward the compound, an embassy spokesman said.</p>

<p>No one was injured and there was no damage in the protest, which continued into the late afternoon, the spokesman said....

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</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/01/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/01/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
New video on Iranian government-run TV networks Sunday showed two of the 15 British detainees being held in Iran.</p>

<p>The brief clips showed two men, one at a time, standing in front of a map. The first man, who does not appear to identify himself, points to where the crew was "when we were seized." </p>

<p>He said it was "apparently at this point, here, from their maps, which is inside Iranian territorial waters."...

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</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/02/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/02/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Fifteen British sailors and Marines detained by Iran for over a week have confessed to illegally entering the country's waters, Iranian state-run media reported on Monday.</p>

<p>But there were signs as well that both sides were softening their stance over the diplomatic dispute as a British official said the two countries had agreed to discuss how to avoid future disputes over contested waters in the Persian Gulf, The Associated Press reported....

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_britishsailors_070402/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_britishsailors_070402/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Iran?s state-run radio cited what it called ?positive changes? in Britain?s negotiating stance Monday and said because of those, television stations would not broadcast additional videos of British sailors? confessions.</p>

<p>The state-run radio did not detail what it meant by positive changes, nor quote any officials by name. A state-run TV station had said earlier Monday that all 15 British sailors and marines held captive by the country had confessed to illegally entering Iranian waters....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
There are Rules of Engagement. The Ministry of Defense decided to not engage the Iranians. The situation was bucked all the way to the top in London.

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</p>

<p>Which just goes to show what happens when spineless politicians get involved in military decisions.</p>

<p>I'll remind everyone that Carter & Company ordered our Marines not to open fire as the same goons who run Iran now were climbing over the embassy gates back in 1979. Look what our show of goodwill earned us. :rolleyes:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040200343.html?hpid=topnews%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040200343.html?hpid=topnews&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Iran and Britain signaled possible movement toward ending the standoff over 15 detained British sailors Monday, with Tehran promising to stop airing video confessions and London saying it's willing to discuss ways to avoid boundary confusion in the Persian Gulf.</p>

<p>The quieter tone from both capitals raised hopes the 11-day standoff might be solved soon. But optimistic signs emerged before, only to be followed by a hardening of positions and tough rhetoric....

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</p>

<p><a href="http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-britain-iran-public-patience,0,4999567.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-britain-iran-public-patience,0,4999567.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
One of Britain's tabloid newspapers on Monday labeled the videotaped confessions of a Royal Navy crew captured by Iran "sickening," asking how much more the country can take from "Iran's evil mullahs."</p>

<p>For many Britons, though, fighting it out with Iran is not a popular option. Despite high frustration, many people seem willing to be patient as the government tries to resolve the crisis over the seizure of the 15 sailors and marines with new diplomatic overtures to Tehran....

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</p>

<p>Seeks diplomatic resolution to captured sailor crisis</p>

<p><a href="http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_british_070402/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_british_070402/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Iran?s chief international negotiator said Monday that the country wants to resolve the crisis over 15 captured British sailors through diplomacy and there is no need to put the crew on trial.</p>

<p>In London, an official said earlier that Britain has agreed to consider discussing with Iran how to avoid future disputes over contested waters in the Persian Gulf....

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/03/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/03/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
British Prime Minister Tony Blair says the way is open for diplomatic efforts to secure the release of 15 sailors captured by Iran, and "the next 48 hours will be fairly critical."</p>

<p>"The most important thing is to get the people back safe and sound and if they want to resolve this in a diplomatic way the door is open," Blair said....

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</p>

<p>Further 'Confessions' Won't Be Broadcast, Tehran Officials Say</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040200343.html?hpid=topnews%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040200343.html?hpid=topnews&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Iranian officials said Monday that all 15 British sailors and marines arrested March 23 have admitted to illegally entering Iranian waters, but the officials said they would not broadcast any further "confessions" on Iranian television due to positive "changes" in British attitude.</p>

<p>It was unclear what changes Iranian officials were referring to, but after a flurry of behind-the-scenes diplomatic discussions and an official exchange of letters, British officials noticeably toned down their rhetoric Monday over the seizure of the crew....

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</p>

<p>Well, this didn't take long. It's all our fault. :rolleyes:</p>

<p><a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
*The botched US raid that led to the hostage crisis *</p>

<p>Exclusive Report: How a bid to kidnap Iranian security officials sparked a diplomatic crisis
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 03 April 2007 </p>

<p>A failed American attempt to abduct two senior Iranian security officers on an official visit to northern Iraq was the starting pistol for a crisis that 10 weeks later led to Iranians seizing 15 British sailors and Marines. </p>

<p>Early on the morning of 11 January, helicopter-born US forces launched a surprise raid on a long-established Iranian liaison office in the city of Arbil in Iraqi Kurdistan. They captured five relatively junior Iranian officials whom the US accuses of being intelligence agents and still holds.</p>

<p>In reality the US attack had a far more ambitious objective, The Independent has learned. The aim of the raid, launched without informing the Kurdish authorities, was to seize two men at the very heart of the Iranian security establishment.</p>

<p>Better understanding of the seriousness of the US action in Arbil - and the angry Iranian response to it - should have led Downing Street and the Ministry of Defence to realise that Iran was likely to retaliate against American or British forces such as highly vulnerable Navy search parties in the Gulf. The two senior Iranian officers the US sought to capture were Mohammed Jafari, the powerful deputy head of the Iranian National Security Council, and General Minojahar Frouzanda, the chief of intelligence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, according to Kurdish officials.</p>

<p>The two men were in Kurdistan on an official visit during which they met the Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, and later saw Massoud Barzani, the President of the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG), at his mountain headquarters overlooking Arbil.</p>

<p>"They were after Jafari," Fuad Hussein, the chief of staff of Massoud Barzani, told The Independent. He confirmed that the Iranian office had been established in Arbil for a long time and was often visited by Kurds obtaining documents to visit Iran. "The Americans thought he [Jafari] was there," said Mr Hussein.</p>

<p>Mr Jafari was accompanied by a second, high-ranking Iranian official. "His name was General Minojahar Frouzanda, the head of intelligence of the Pasdaran [Iranian Revolutionary Guard]," said Sadi Ahmed Pire, now head of the Diwan (office) of President Talabani in Baghdad. Mr Pire previously lived in Arbil, where he headed the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), Mr Talabani's political party.</p>

<p>The attempt by the US to seize the two high-ranking Iranian security officers openly meeting with Iraqi leaders is somewhat as if Iran had tried to kidnap the heads of the CIA and MI6 while they were on an official visit to a country neighbouring Iran, such as Pakistan or Afghanistan. There is no doubt that Iran believes that Mr Jafari and Mr Frouzanda were targeted by the Americans. Mr Jafari confirmed to the official Iranian news agency, IRNA, that he was in Arbil at the time of the raid.</p>

<p>In a little-noticed remark, Manouchehr Mottaki, the Iranian Foreign Minister, told IRNA: "The objective of the Americans was to arrest Iranian security officials who had gone to Iraq to develop co-operation in the area of bilateral security."</p>

<p>US officials in Washington subsequently claimed that the five Iranian officials they did seize, who have not been seen since, were "suspected of being closely tied to activities targeting Iraq and coalition forces". This explanation never made much sense. No member of the US-led coalition has been killed in Arbil and there were no Sunni-Arab insurgents or Shia militiamen there.</p>

<p>The raid on Arbil took place within hours of President George Bush making an address to the nation on 10 January in which he claimed: "Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops." He identified Iran and Syria as America's main enemies in Iraq though the four-year-old guerrilla war against US-led forces is being conducted by the strongly anti-Iranian Sunni-Arab community. Mr Jafari himself later complained about US allegations. "So far has there been a single Iranian among suicide bombers in the war-battered country?" he asked. "Almost all who involved in the suicide attacks are from Arab countries."</p>

<p>It seemed strange at the time that the US would so openly flout the authority of the Iraqi President and the head of the KRG simply to raid an Iranian liaison office that was being upgraded to a consulate, though this had not yet happened on 11 January. US officials, who must have been privy to the White House's new anti-Iranian stance, may have thought that bruised Kurdish pride was a small price to pay if the US could grab such senior Iranian officials.</p>

<p>For more than a year the US and its allies have been trying to put pressure on Iran. Security sources in Iraqi Kurdistan have long said that the US is backing Iranian Kurdish guerrillas in Iran. The US is also reportedly backing Sunni Arab dissidents in Khuzestan in southern Iran who are opposed to the government in Tehran. On 4 February soldiers from the Iraqi army 36th Commando battalion in Baghdad, considered to be under American control, seized Jalal Sharafi, an Iranian diplomat.</p>

<p>The raid in Arbil was a far more serious and aggressive act. It was not carried out by proxies but by US forces directly. The abortive Arbil raid provoked a dangerous escalation in the confrontation between the US and Iran which ultimately led to the capture of the 15 British sailors and Marines - apparently considered a more vulnerable coalition target than their American comrades.</p>

<p>The targeted generals </p>

<ul>
<li>MOHAMMED JAFARI</li>
</ul>

<p>Powerful deputy head of the Iranian National Security Council, responsible for internal security. He has accused the United States of seeking to "hold Iran responsible for insecurity in Iraq... and [US] failure in the country."</p>

<ul>
<li>GENERAL MINOJAHAR FROUZANDA</li>
</ul>

<p>Chief of intelligence of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the military unit which maintains its own intelligence service separate from the state, as well as a parallel army, navy and air force

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</p>

<p>Watch for the Dims to demand hearings into whether Rove was responsible for ordering the raid. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>^^^^^
Blame the hostage situation on Bush and Cheney. :rolleyes: And now here's the rest of the story:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/03/iraq.iranians.ap/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/03/iraq.iranians.ap/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
A senior Iraqi Foreign Ministry official said on Tuesday that the government was "intensively" seeking release of five Iranians detained by the U.S. military more than two months ago in northern Iraq.</p>

<p>"We are intensively seeking the release of the five Iranians," the senior official said....

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</p>

<p><a href="http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_britain_070403/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_iran_britain_070403/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
The sudden release of an Iranian diplomat missing for two months in Iraq raised new hope Tuesday that 15 British sailors and marines seized by Iran may soon be freed.</p>

<p>It also suggests the standoff over the captive Britons may end with a de facto prisoner swap ? something both Tehran and London have publicly discounted....

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</p>

<p>Eh I wrote a long post then decided it would just cause political arguments... so I'll stick with...</p>

<p>Europe is a sad and if anything this just promotes other countries to kidnap and attempt to brainwash other soldiers.</p>

<p>Sorry for the length, I'm somewhat of a long-winded typer XD, and for the double post, couldn't edit my previous one because of a time limit.</p>

<p>CWJones411: "60 F-14s"
DMeix: "And zero spare parts or qualified mechanics to go with them"</p>

<p>There was a show on the history channel a few weeks ago about this, they said when the Shah left the mechanics (which were American I believe, or loyal to the Shah/USA) they took out some of the computer parts in the jets making them inoperable as a fighter, I believe they can fly but their weapons systems won't work. So they are pretty much useless. </p>

<p>Fligirl89: "I mean no disrespect but I really do get tired of seeing all of the political stuff posted on a section that is supposed to answer questions about USNA. It would be one thing if there had been a question within this topic about the politics on the yard?it was not asked but has been addressed on other threads and I really do know how to use the search feature. I will stand by my original thought?.shouldn?t the posts about world/American politics be over on the Parents Forum shouldn?t this be the place to get information and learn all we can about the Academy and the 4 years by the Bay?"</p>

<p>I don't really see this as a political subject, this is more of a military conflict if you ask me, but I suppose everything has a political overtone/undertone to it. If anyone was joining the Navy (which you are doing by attending the USNA) I'm pretty sure they would want to know if they would have any protection against being captured. If I was captured and just left under Iranian "care" for weeks/months/years and the reason for it was some stupid politicians, I would definitely do some "hunting" if I got out... however unlikely that scenario might be, I do expect my government to do what they can, not sit around and just see what happens.</p>

<p>If you wanted to turn this into a political debate we could talk about Israel's response to the capturing of their soldiers, and compare it to the British response. Or even our response in the Carter era and Reagan era. Thus far it really isn't that much of a political debate, maybe it will turn into one later but that is later.</p>

<p>I do agree that this should be the place to get answers on the USNA/NAPS and other programs/experiences related to them, but some "political threads" should be discussed as they do pertain in some regard to life in the military. But idk, everything is political nowadays, going to USNA could be considered political, as you are supporting the military (hopefully), and I'm sure some SanFrans would dislike that and turn that into a political argument. </p>

<p>Not trying to be rude or anything as I am somewhat new here and maybe there have been a lot of politically charged threads before (I have read two, though they were somewhat stupid, Socialist and something about Conservative/Liberal mindsets at USNA).</p>

<p>I'm just bored and sometimes reading these threads keeps my interest for this area, plus no one seems to have much info for me! ;)</p>

<p>We try to keep the politics to a minimum around here. We don't always succeed, but we try.</p>

<p>What info do you need that you're not getting? Plenty of well-informed folks here and at <a href="http://www.serviceacademyforums.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.serviceacademyforums.com&lt;/a>, so ask away. :)</p>

<p>Ahh very nice =x thanks a bunch!</p>

<p>I was mainly looking for some comparison applications for those who are trying to receive/have received an appointment from college. Not too many of us so I believe that is why there isn't that much info on it.</p>

<p>Btw, where does your name come from? I've seen the screenname Zaphod a few times so I'm curious hehe.</p>

<p>And the politics just make things interesting :P I have no problem with it so long as people can stick to facts (hah?) lol. But I guess some people don't like to talk about it.</p>

<p>(I'm noticing a lot of the same posters on this site, guess that is a good thing?)</p>

<p>one of my favorite bloggers, Dean Barnett had this to say about the Iranian hostages...</p>

<p>"7) How is America involved?</p>

<p>The Iranians have been systematically testing the resolve of America’ s allies over the past several months. In response to Hezbollah’s provocations last summer, Israel fought back, although not as well or as capably as we’ve become accustomed to. Other than England, the rest of Europe has long been known as the lumbering ghosts of once great nations who made a pact with mediocrity decades ago. England, with its degraded Navy and equally degraded national will, has now officially joined their company.</p>

<p>8) Why didn’t Iran just kidnap 15 American soldiers? </p>

<p>That’s the question that no one seems to ask, especially those who consider Iran’s actions some sort of response to American wrong-doing. I’ve long argued in these virtual pages that George W. Bush scares the holy shinola out of the world’s bad men. If Iran tried this stunt on American troops, it’s hard to imagine President Bush being mindful of pleas to give diplomacy time to work. </p>

<p>This is where Bush is most effective as a wartime leader. For all his faults in communicating and building consensuses and crafting a coherent post-occupation strategy in Iraq, we’re fortunate to have him on that wall when the world’s bad men come calling.</p>

<p>9) So how does the situation play out?</p>

<p>Presumably, once Britain’s humiliation is complete, Iran will release the hostages. The international left will sing the praises of diplomacy, and marvel at how much more effective diplomacy is than the cowboy antics of America’s president. All the while, they will have no idea how this incident weakened the West.</p>

<p>10) How has it weakened the West? </p>

<p>Iran committed a clear act of war that went unanswered. Actually, were that only the case. England answered Iran’s act of war with tepid condemnations, desperate diplomacy and finally a belated effort by the ascendant English left to blame the whole thing on America. Ahmadenijad probably considers it a solid couple of weeks at the office."</p>

<p>interesting....</p>