15 British sailors detained by Iran...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/06/iran.sailors/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/06/iran.sailors/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
The 15 British military personnel captured by Iranian forces in the Persian Gulf were subjected to psychological pressure and kept in isolation during their detention, the group's commander told a news conference on Friday.</p>

<p>Lt. Felix Carman of the British Royal Navy, reading a statement at a news conference at a military base in Chivenor, southwestern England, said the troops were 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters when the incident occurred -- despite previous statements to the contrary while in Iranian custody.</p>

<p>The group had been presented with two options, said Lt. Carman: to admit having strayed into Iranian waters or face up to seven years in prison in Iran....

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<p>Iranians' Tactics Said to Include Threats, Isolation</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040600246.html?hpid=topnews%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/06/AR2007040600246.html?hpid=topnews&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Early during their two-week detention in Iran, a group of British sailors and marines were blindfolded, hands cuffed behind their backs, and lined up facing a wall in a prison in Tehran. Behind them, they recalled, Iranian guards cocked their guns.</p>

<p>Held in isolation by guards who spoke no English, barred from talking to one another, and so bereft of information that they thought perhaps no one knew they were missing, "Some of us feared the worst," said Royal Marine Capt. Chris Air, 25....

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<p><a href="http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25052_British_Hostages_Sell_Stories_for_Big_Cash&only%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25052_British_Hostages_Sell_Stories_for_Big_Cash&only&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I hope she's a ball buster. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The story of Faye Turney, 26, the only female among them, is expected to be the most lucrative. She could profit by as much as ?150,000 from a joint deal with a newspaper and ITV.

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<p>What bothered me most about the whole thing was the video of the ranking British officer smiling while he confessed. I just can't see an American doing this.</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007160267,00.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007160267,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
FREED British hostage Faye Turney told last night how she feared she was being measured for her COFFIN by her evil Iranian captors.</p>

<p>The sickening charade was an act of mental torture — but to Navy sailor Faye it was terrifyingly real.

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<p><a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=arthur--faye-saved-me&method=full&objectid=18879126&siteid=89520-name_page.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=arthur--faye-saved-me&method=full&objectid=18879126&siteid=89520-name_page.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>STILL waiting.... :rolleyes:</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_brits_sellinginterviews_070409/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/ap_brits_sellinginterviews_070409/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Britain on Monday banned all military service members from talking to the media in return for payment in the future, reversing its decision to allow the 15 Marines and sailors held captive in Iran to sell their stories.</p>

<p>Defense Secretary Des Browne issued a statement saying the navy faced a ?very tough call? over its initial decision to allow the payments, which came under sharp criticism. The new ban will not affect those who already gave accounts, a Defense Ministry spokesman said....

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<p>FLIP FLOP :D</p>

<p>Des Browne is the Defense Minister not the Defense Secretary.</p>

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<p>Apr 9 10:13 AM US/Eastern</p>

<p>
[quote]
Britain's "weakness" in standing up to Iran in the detained sailors stand-off handed Tehran an improbable victory and left it dangerously emboldened, former US ambassador to the UN John Bolton said Monday.
Iran was deliberately probing for allied weaknesses and found them in abundance, Bolton wrote in a hard-hitting article in the Financial Times newspaper. </p>

<p>"Against all odds, Iran emerged with a win-win from the crisis: winning by its provocation in seizing the hostages in the first place and winning again by its unilateral decision to release them," wrote the 2005-2006 US ambassador to the United Nations. </p>

<p>The Guardian newspaper reported last week that the Washington wanted to get involved militarily in cranking up the pressure on Iran, but was rebuffed by London, which preferred to pursue diplomatic channels.<br>

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<p>Great Britian, land of Dhimmitude. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070409141307.6t3jw8iq&show_article=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070409141307.6t3jw8iq&show_article=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>The fifteen sailors didn't fire back because a) they were surrounded by a larger force armed with heavy machine guns and rocket propelled grenades - they all would have died for nothing if they had resisted capture b) Britain is not at war with Iran, a lieutenant does not want the responsibility of starting a war. </p>

<p>I dearly hope that anyone who thinks they should have fired back never becomes a commissioned officer. </p>

<p>Furthermore, it's the policy of the British armed forces for captured servicemen and women to comply with all enemy demands that do not compromise their operational goals. Unlike the marines or the SAS, British sailors have no training in resisting torture or interrogation.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The fifteen sailors didn't fire back because a) they were surrounded by a larger force armed with heavy machine guns and rocket propelled grenades - they all would have died for nothing if they had resisted capture

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Well, I guess we should have thrown in the towel early at Pearl Harbor. (After all, we weren't at war with them yet.)
I recon the Marines on Guam should have just given up when the Japanese first arrived.
I guess the 4 SEALS who held off dozens of Al Qaeda terrorists despite being surrounded and outgunned, and held on so only one could escape, just threw their lives away.
I guess the folks at the Alamo were just fools.
I suppose the Marines at Chosin and Khe Sahn were fools, too.
Maybe the 101st Airborne should have just surrendered at Bastogne?
Maybe the Spartans at Thermopolaye should have just let the Persians through?</p>

<p>Just saying.... :rolleyes:</p>

<p>
[quote]
b) Britain is not at war with Iran, a lieutenant does not want the responsibility of starting a war.

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<p>Wow. I bet his troops are SO confident in him that he'll bring them home. :rolleyes:</p>

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[quote]
I dearly hope that anyone who thinks they should have fired back never becomes a commissioned officer.

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<p>And I dearly hope anyone who thinks that surrender is the best option never wears the uniform at all. Just stay home on your comfy little sofa and let the adults do the dirty work.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Furthermore, it's the policy of the British armed forces for captured servicemen and women to comply with all enemy demands that do not compromise their operational goals.

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</p>

<p>Well, let's see....</p>

<p>The British Navy and the Royal Marines are a laughingstock in the Arab world.
The British military has a nice big black eye at home.
British military forces in-theater now have a message that they are fair game for capture and nothing will happen.
Iran continues to thumb its nose at the free world.</p>

<p>How is ANY of that in line with their "operational goals"? :confused:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Unlike the marines or the SAS, British sailors have no training in resisting torture or interrogation.

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</p>

<p>Excuse me, but ROYAL MARINES were among the ones captured, and training or no, behavior standards among POW's are age-old and include resisting the desire of your enemy to use you for propaganda purposes.</p>

<p>The British soldiers and airmen who were beaten to within an inch of their lives in Desert Storm before they were put on camera must be hurling their lunches right now.</p>

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<p>one of your most impressive posts Zaphod, hooyah.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
What bothered me most about the whole thing was the video of the ranking British officer smiling while he confessed. I just can't see an American doing this.

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<p>What utter rubbish you talk. You seriously have an image in your mind that these soldiers were somehow "happy" to make a confession that was completely forced out of them...i bet they were just over the moon and oh so proud.</p>

<p>The general impression that has been given about the situation is that they had no choice but to do what they were told or, as in the words of the female captive 'she wouldn't see he daughter again.' If they were told to smile, they were going to smile.</p>

<p>Don't start typing some ******** about American soldiers having more patriotism and guts and just not being the type to give in, because not only is it a completely ignorant conclusion to draw from one video, made whilst the soldiers were under complete control of the iranians, its hugely offensive to the people who are fighting.</p>

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<p>Your right LadyLou, its indefensible to draw this from one video, I mean lets look at the American video ---- THERE ISN'T ONE! These soldiers didn't 'resist' anymore than an 8-year old listening to an adult. You want to know why 'Americans' have more guts, as you brought up, because our soldiers are trained to above all resist, resist, resist; and they have proven to do so. These Brits obviously were not, thus we arive at our conclusion. They played PING PONG for god's sake on Iranian TV, laughing and joking around, I'm sorry but they were treated extremely well because it is extremly hard to pull off that kind of fake happiness.</p>

<p>Every single soldier is probably disgusted with these guys, surrender without a single shot fired, not even a warning shot! I just hope this is an isolated case and not the state of the entire British army....</p>

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<p>Lots of easy talk from some that don't seem to have ever looked down the wrong end of a gun.</p>

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<p>I am not trying to pass judgment, because I have never been under that kind of stress. I just said that it bothered me, and it did. I saw a video where an officer was smiling, and I saw another one where they were opening presents in the Tehran airport. It was one of those things that just strikes a nerve.</p>

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<p>I don't suppose any you who don't think surrender is the best option have ever heard of the USS Pueblo? A larger USN ship that surrendered under similar circumstances.</p>

<p>I suppose you are on the side that consider Cmdr. Bucher a coward who should have stayed home and let the adults do the dirty work. </p>

<p>A short synopsis.</p>

<p>The USS PUEBLO, which was captured by the North Koreans in 1968, was the first U.S. Navy ship to be hi-jacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years. To date, the capture has resulted in no reprisals against the North Koreans; no military action was taken at the time, or at any later date. This lack of military response guarantees the Pueblo?s place in history as a watershed event in our national conscience</p>

<p>So, until y ou have been in the situation where it is YOUR decision, I think you should reserve your judgment and your wormy comments. Who knows, you might even smile if told to do so if it means y ou will be released.</p>

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<p>"Lots of easy talk from some that don't seem to have ever looked down the wrong end of a gun." dadvet</p>

<p>dadvet and LadyLou,
Thank you for expressing exactly what I was thinking. A couple of these posters live only in the 'virtual' world. (And I'm being stalked by one. Let's see how many seconds it takes for him to respond.)</p>

<p>usna09mom</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
Your right LadyLou, its indefensible to draw this from one video, I mean lets look at the American video ---- THERE ISN'T ONE! These soldiers didn't 'resist' anymore than an 8-year old listening to an adult. You want to know why 'Americans' have more guts, as you brought up, because our soldiers are trained to above all resist, resist, resist; and they have proven to do so. These Brits obviously were not, thus we arive at our conclusion. They played PING PONG for god's sake on Iranian TV, laughing and joking around, I'm sorry but they were treated extremely well because it is extremly hard to pull off that kind of fake happiness.</p>

<p>Every single soldier is probably disgusted with these guys, surrender without a single shot fired, not even a warning shot! I just hope this is an isolated case and not the state of the entire British army....

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<p>can you just tell me, quite simply, what would be the point of firing back when it will lead to certain death of 15 British troops, for absolutely nothing.
Instead, they choose the intelligent, less primitave option, of surrendering, in a sitation where the other choice is simple death. Now, the iranians have seen this as a great propaganda opportunity, one which you so beautifully and naively have fallen into. The Iranians want simple minded people to believe that they [the captives] were treated wonderfully well, when infact any simple research after shows quite clearly that they were forced into making 'confessions' and were kept in isolation for the majority of the time, and scenarios similar to 'fake executions' were acted out around them. Yer, I bet they were actually pretty happy to have 5 minutes out of solitary confinement to play ping pong... but it shows absolutely nothing about the state of mind of the soldiers.
To all those who it 'bothered' that they appeared so happy, well you've caused exactly the kind of response Iranians wanted.</p>

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<p>LL welcome to the nether world of CC . . . where everybody is a hero and nobody is right; where opinions and conjecture rule as fact; where, based on a snippet here, a video there, and a newspaper article or two thrown in for good measure--from the all-evil, ever-liberal press to boot--amazing conclusions are reached, reputations evaluated, and anybody that disagrees denigrated. Take the smallest piece of a post--what was the dustup that USNA 2010 created when he suggested that one might not want to accept to one academy pending another's offer because of a USMA letter that differs from a USNA rule?--take it out of context and infuriate the chattering classes. Amazing intellect! Wonderous thoughts! Incredible knowledge! All RIGHT HERE on CC . . . if it could only be bottled and delivered to the President, what amazing things could be done.</p>

<p>Dadvet . . .welcome to the party! Let's see how the Pueblo incident is picked apart as not being comparable to the British incident. [I mean, after all, didn't the US sailors remain stoic, transmit secret messages in their videos, and, otherwise, conduct themselves honorably?]</p>

<p>After an absence to China, where they are doing AMAZING things [of course that slavery idea worked for the Romans too], I see the blathering continues.</p>

<p>I guess CC is STILL cheaper than signing on to porno sites.</p>

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<p>bill- could not possibly have said it better. this is not the same site that it was two years ago when i was applying: it had a purpose and people were quicker to help and advise than to denigrate. people were positive rather than defensive. </p>

<p>and about the state of the British army, rkavanaugh; they remain our BEST AND MOST IMPORTANT ALLY. i am seriously shaking my head right now: you'd have us honestly question the British? what an imbecilic, cowardly statement. simply because their sailors were used for propaganda, you'd fall right into the Iranians' hands and start to doubt our most trusted ally? dadvet is right, it is most easy to sit at your computer and run your mouth about what you would or wouldn't have done in their position. you think Americans haven't been used for propaganda before? you think we are such an inherently braver people? let me ask a question: who fought the Germans, pretty much singlehandedly after France fell, for two years until pearl harbor forced us to enter WWII? and did we even declare war on Germany? nope, not until Hitler declared it on us first! no one is questioning American valor, and its a small person who would dare to question the Brits.</p>