<p>There is a downside in that she will be foregoing the opportunity to take one or two free electives in place of freshman calculus courses that she could skip.</p>
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<p>And others go full speed ahead into more advanced math courses. Note that the students repeating AP credit may make the grading curve in freshman calculus more difficult, so it may not be an “easy A”.</p>
<p>Checking the old final exams from freshman calculus courses at the college would be a good idea to check one’s knowledge before deciding what to do here.</p>
<p>However, that thread relates to a student who went to a (private) high school with poor quality math instruction, so that he had to start in precalculus remedial math in college. That does not really apply to a student who got a 5 on AP calculus BC.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why students can’t start any school (HS or college) with the same number of credits the first semester as in later ones. She should go for it and max out on her education from the beginning. This also gives her more flexibility later. The best HS students are used to doing the work.</p>
<p>Wis…While I can understand your POV, for many, many kids (even the stand-outs) college is an adjustment. </p>
<p>Fall Frosh often experience distractions, later nights up with new pals, no “school night curfews”, no one noticing that the alarm went off and student is still asleep, etc. Even the most independent kids probably had parents doing SOME things for them when they lived at home, even if it was just meal prep. </p>
<p>many eng’g students who come in with AP credits don’t have to take 18 credits their first semester, and a number of them shouldn’t. We all know that many kids start in eng’g and then quickly change because of grades. How many of those same kids may have been able to stay in if they hadn’t overloaded that first semester? </p>
<p>Someone coming in with Cal 1 credits can eliminate 1 class right off the bat… Those coming in with Frosh Comp credits also can lessen their load. </p>
<p>No one is suggesting that the student take an average of 15 credits EVERY semester if that means not graduating on time. The first semester is the issue.</p>
<p>No one else seems to be commenting on this - but a schedule that requires “her to go to class from 9:15 to 4:30 without a break for lunch.” (Post 7) is a bad idea regardless of the number of units. </p>
<p>I am a firm believer in a lighter load the fall semester freshman year - especially if the heavier load is coming from some General Ed elective. It’s not a sprint - it is a 4 year marathon.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have her retake Calc. 1. S1 had AP credit for Calc1 but since he took it as a h.s. junior decided to retake it first semester as a refresher/gpa boost for Calc.2. Big mistake…the instructor was fr. a foreign country…couldn’t understand a thing he said…taught completely diff. than what S1 had in AP Calc. S1 failed first couple of tests and was advised to drop it (had to keep a 3.2 for scholarship) which he promptly did since he already had AP credit for the class. </p>
<p>Took Calc.2 in spring sem…got a good prof…made a B. At his engineering university, I hear Calc.2 is the weedout class but obviously a lot can depend upon the prof.</p>
<p>OP, was your D very active outisde of h.s.? S1 worked a lot of hrs. at a p/t job in h.s. so was used to a packed sched. going from sch. straight to work most days. I think that helped him when he had to take a lot of hours in college.</p>
<p>As a student who has taken classes filled with people who’ve had the same material in high school, I would strongly suggest that your daughter not take Calc 1 again. It’s really frustrating to know that no matter how hard you study, you’re always going to be at a disadvantage because others decided they cared more about their GPA than learning.</p>
That’s not really fair. Some of those students may not have felt strong enough in the subject to continue without another semester at it. Also, the college level can be more thorough than the hs class, depending on the course. </p>
<p>And when I took Calc I, I had not had any type of calculus in hs, and still managed to be #2 in the class and get an A. Not true that “no matter how hard you study, you are …at a disadvantage”.</p>
<p>If he can fit 18 hours in his schedule, I would recommend he take it. There may be a point he wants to drop a class for one reason or another, and if he starts with too little a load, he will get too far behind. Also, as an engineering major, he will be required to take close to 18 hours every semester to finish in four years, so better to jump in and get the feet wet. Now, if he wants to pledge a fraternity or is in the school band, that’s a different story. But just a regular kid starting college as an engineering major, I think he should start out with the 18 hours. As for where to start in calc, that’s his call, but how well did he do in math in high school? My son was a B math student in high school, and even though he had the AP credit to start with Calc II, he started with Calc I. He had a great teacher who gave him a great college math foundation, and he did well in all his calc classes and only struggled once he got to dif eq, his, thankfully, last math class. Son is a mech eng major, and many times would love to take 18 hours, but unfortunately, because of labs and the schedule of classes, ie, not enough hours in the day to logistically take 18 hours, he sometimes has only 16 hours. He had to take chemistry during the summer between his freshman and sophomore year despite having AP credits just because of schedule conflicts and he needed to take chemistry before soph year because it was a prereq for his soph eng courses.</p>
<p>I have been advising science and engineering students for many years and I agree that some students can handle the workload. However, in general, I think that 18 is too high for a first semester since starting college can be a big adjustment for even a strong student. </p>
<p>My usual approach is to speak to the student and make an assessment based on test scores, grades in high school and just the impression I get from talking to him/her. If I think that taking 18 credits is too much, I point out that summer school is always a possibility to “catch up” with the demanding curriculum and that many engineering take 5 years anyway to complete the B.S.</p>
<p>I prefer a student to have good grades in the first semester or two than to have a lot of credits. The foundation built in those semesters gives confidence and that will help later on.</p>
<p>^^^Good point xrayman. And I also appreciate your honesty that summer school is a probability for engineering majors. I think too many get cocky that AP credits are going to give them a cushion for dropping classes, taking a lighter load. Even when taking the heaviest load, engineering majors often have to take summer classes just because the logistics of schedules don’t work out.</p>
<p>The problem is…the student MUST take courses in a sequence…and the first term is offered typically in the fall with subsequent terms in subsequent semesters/quarters that year. My daughter really didn’t have much choice with regard to the number of credit hours she needed to take her first term freshman year…in order to stay IN sequence, she had to take 18 credits. This included required core courses and engineering track math/science courses. The thing is…only 15 of her credits were math/science (she happens to LIKE these and does well in them…thus the engineering choice in the first place)…then she had required core courses which she said were a nice change from the science/math.</p>
<p>Thanks for the help. If she drops her humanity elective, she can reduce her course load and have a lunch break. It won’t throw her out of sequence because she won’t have to take freshman writing in the spring. (Don’t know if she’s correct but she’s adamant that she’s ready for the cal 3.)</p>
<p>Part of the social interaction among engineers revolves around mutual commiseration about the workload. </p>
<p>My S had 18 credit hours first semester, but a lot of it was little 1-credit things. His primary classes were Calculus (4), Computer Science (3), Intro engineering class (3) and a freshman writing class (3). He had a 1-credit optional accompaniment to the calculus class, 1-credit engineering advising class, 1-credit online CS class to introduce students who have programming experience to another language, 1-credit (required) PE class, and he also got 1 credit for his work on a project team that was primarily an extra-curricular activity. </p>
<p>4 “real” classes plus a number of extras seems doable. Although it is a lot of things to keep track of, my impression was that none of the 1-hour things really required a lot of time outside of the class time so they were easy requirements to meet. (Well, except the project team which his spent tons of time on, but that was voluntary.)</p>
<p>TCM, your daughter could start the semester as planned, knowing that she has the option of dropping the elective if needed.</p>
<p>Perhaps she can sign up for the full schedule (or take a different humanities course that won’t give her no lunch break) but be prepared to drop one course if it is too heavy a workload. If she starts in calculus 3, then she will have two courses worth of “slack” in her schedule (i.e. two semesters where she takes one fewer course than normal will not delay her graduation) due to not having to take calculus 1 and 2.</p>
<p>Assuming you mean ten semesters of school (as opposed to extended calendar time due to co-op jobs as is typical at Northeastern University), that does mean an extra two semesters of cost of attendance that may not have been budgeted for initially (and four year scholarships may expire, causing them to be full price).</p>
<p>It’s too bad prospective parents and students can’t easily get four-year graduation statistics for the schools they are considering, because this is a huge consideration! My kids know that they are on the “four year plan” as we can’t afford to pay for additional years. I do find it odd when people just complacently accept that fact that it might take an extra year and cost an extra 25% to graduate!</p>
<p>So far S1 is the only one actually in college, and he’s on track to graduate just fine in 4 years, particularly since he came in with AP credit getting him out of two engineering science classes, one freshman writing class, and also giving him some “generic” science and humanities credits.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, these statistics are in the less useful calendar time, rather than the semesters or quarters of school needed, which would give a more accurate picture in terms of cost.</p>
<p>Four year graduation rates generally appear to correlate with admissions selectivity and list price cost of attendance. More selective schools tend to have fewer students who need remedial courses, and more students who can handle normal college workloads (as opposed to having to take lighter workloads to pass). Higher list price cost of attendance tends to be a strong incentive to avoid needing extra semesters or quarters, especially if financial aid or scholarships expire beyond eight semesters or twelve quarters.</p>
<p>Some schools do have four year graduation pledge programs giving priority registration to those not needing remedial courses and agreeing to follow their major’s course plan. But many of these schools have low four year graduation rates anyway (e.g. CSUs in Pomona, Fresno, Fullerton, San Bernardino, Stanislaus).</p>
<p>I’ve found that this can vary a lot. I’ve taken several 1, 1.5, and 2 credit “classes.” (Varying between any sort of thing that could be assigned as a course at a University) The workload in these can vary from literally just showing up for an hour to the class, to several hours every week outside of class and multiple hours of class. It’s hard to judge the workload for any of these just from the number of credits it is. You kinda just gotta know based on what the class is or from talking to people who have taken it.</p>
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<p>If she was going to my school I’d say she’s probably right. Given all the pressure from advisers and orientation guides (if she had such a thing there) to underestimate your abilities rather than overestimate, if she’s still convinced she’s ready she most likely is. I don’t know if the advising at her school is the same way at mine, but I’d assume it is.</p>
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<p>I agree, that’s why you shouldn’t (and many don’t) put too much stock in GPA. There’s a lot of non-academic, by which I mean intellectual and effort, factors that are reflected in GPA. You could say there’s a large confidence interval around them, it takes a big difference to really say that one student is better than another. I’ve met people with 3.2 GPAs who are better students than me, and people with 3.8s who suck. Given, the daughter in this situation needs to maintain a 3.0, but if she’s a good student she can probably swing average or slightly above without too much difficulty, even if she doesn’t take the easy way out.</p>
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<p>I know it’s your job and you’re doing the best you can for the interests of the student, but something about pressuring someone into taking easier loads and making it up extra terms (whether in summer or an extended stay at the school) where they have to pay more leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of a used car salesman.</p>
<p>Better to let the student tank and lose his or her scholarship?</p>
<p>It seems to me that every family should have a backup financial plan for the possibility that a student may not finish in eight semesters. It’s fine to say, as some do, “we’ve notified our kids that we’re only paying for eight semesters,” but what are you going to do if the kid gets there and for whatever reason hasn’t completed the degree requirements?</p>
<p>Our D wants to double minor and do a semester abroad, plus work in the medical school prerequisites. I don’t think she can do that in eight semesters. She chose her school partly because the cost makes it possible to fund an extra semester, or even two if needed.</p>
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