@mom517 while I agree that letting your d feel like she has a choice is important, I disagree that an extra 18K worth of debt is not significant.
My oldest has a small student loan. Her payments aren’t much, but every month when she pays, she thinks about what else she could do with that money. In the case of the 30k in loans, you’re looking at a repayment of 345 but for 48k, you’re looking at $552 (finaid.org calculators used). Sure, she’ll be an engineer (unless she changes her major), but my kid had a pretty high starting salary, too, and the loan still bugs her. And almost 4 years after graduation, she’s darn tired of it.
In the case of my youngest, she had no college debt (not an option for you, I know), but when she got a really good job, it was in such a high COL area that there’s no way she could have her own place if $552 a month had to be paid to the loan people.
And you’re entirely right, your child’s not adult brain will not be able to grasp this as she’ll think “engineers make X; I’ll have all kinds of money!”
@ordinarylives thank you! Can I ask what your dd’s salary is? Engineering is approx 60ish right now. Also, what is the length/% of her loan? Is it impacting her daily living? Is she at home? These are the points I need to drive home to my DD. She won’t want to live at home and she will want her comforts so that is the way to make her think about what she will and won’t be able to do.
My kid got a degree in engineering but decided the field was not for her. Good thing she didn’t have large debt because it opened up options that didn’t pay as much.
@mom517 The one with the loan had a salary in the low 60s her first full year of employment after college. All fed student loans have a 10 year repayment period, but she pays a little more each month with the plan to have it paid off in 8. Because she is reasonably well paid in an average COL area, I would say the impact is more on what she’d like to do rather than how she has to live. She can/does live in her own apartment, but is seriously considering a roommate next year so she has more wiggle room in the budget. She would definitely have to have a roommate if she had a $500 a month loan payment. She is driving the old college car and has no plans to give it up until it rolls over and dies because a car payment plus higher insurance would likely mean she would have to have roommate. It’s hair cuts at Cost Cutters instead of the Salon, “new” clothes from the consignment stores, limited budget for travel when she has to take her generous vacation or lose it. It’s a much slower path to her graduate degree, even with max tuition reimbursement from her employer, because she can afford only one class at a time. It’s all very doable, but it’s tight, and every month she thinks about what she could do with that extra money. At first, she didn’t because the whole job/life as an adult was exciting. After a couple of years, she started saying things like, I could come home and visit, but it’ll cost me X in gas… And, I’d like to get my hair colored, but it’s X, and I don’t have the money this month…
The younger one has a much higher salary (FAANG company) but in the bay area, ouch. And think her situation could be the real danger. HS kids think, gee, I’ll make all this money, not realizing that loans, rent, public trans to/from work, and food can leave your bank balance in negative territory!
@ordinarylives You bring up some great points about loans. Could you have a talk with my D19 because she doesn’t believe me when I tell her all the same stuff you are saying. My wife and I lived through what you D is doing now. Many moons ago we had some big loans coming out of college together. More for my wife, but we were one unit by then. I can remember not having enough money for both a dinner and a movie so dinner was the popcorn with refills that night. Vacations were not happening.
So we lived through that. Now we are trying to steer our D19 to a place where she wouldn’t need loans. Good schools just not her number one choice.
Our loans were part of the reason we don’t have as much saved for our kids. Maybe if our kids can get out with no loans then their kids can pick wherever they want to go.
Not all engineering is in the $60k range, but admittedly some is more. Usually when you make more you are in the higher COL areas.
My daughter’s first job is in that range, and her health insurance is paid. She pays a small amount for dental and vision insurance, $175 car insurance, $275 as a car payment (purchase price $15000), $150 student loan ($15,500 total owed), and some insane amount for her apartment of ~$1800.(she pays 1/2) She and her boyfriend wanted to live in a nice place. Of course she has to pay her best friend FICA and federal tax (no state tax). Both the car insurance and payment are much lower because I’m listed as co-owner and she got to use my credit score and insurance history. She makes a nice income but it isn’t like she has money to burn. Her boyfriend has to buy his own orange juice because he likes the expensive kind and it isn’t in her budget.
My niece graduated a few years ago, but made only $36k in Washington DC. She had to watch every penny and couldn’t afford her own insurance or student loans, and didn’t have a car. She has since had a few raises and does make the student loan payments, but it is still a tight budget. Her big luxury is a cat.
Read/have her read the thread from last year “I messed up”. Strong student got into Pitt Engineering, couldn’t afford it.
You’re right to give her a choice. Students need choices in the spring to feel that they ‘own’ the decision; unfortunately, these choices are often constrained by cost.
In early May there’ll be a list of colleges that miscalculated yield. Since she has excellent stats she may be able to add one more choice with a scholarship.
@mommdc She was admitted into the bio-engineering program at MD. We have a host a day visit at the end of April and a meeting 1:1 with a professor at MD. I agree about PITT…very competitive and fantastic but she just has this idea in her head that anyone can get in. Typical teenager. We spent an entire day at PITT. They have a pink panther program and we had a fantastic visit and she met with a bio-engineering professor 1:1 for 45 mins and we asked all kind of questions. She has a friend that is a freshman there and went to an off campus party…still eh. I think they cold hard numbers are going to do the talking. And we will make sure she is aware that we are not able to bail her out.
After all your visits, it’s time for a spreadsheet of the costs. Break it down as much as you can. What can you pay, what must she pay, what can be (must be) cut from the budget.
My ‘non-numbers’ daughter was just fa-la-la-ing about the costs. $16000 here, another $300 there, travel, books, all is good. I broke it down for her and showed how much I could pay and how much she had to pay, and she had to earn it. A paycheck of $100 was going entirely to book. No Starbucks, no new clothes, no fun. Oh. Hmm. Really?
Maryland may only be $4k a year more, but what does that mean? If she has to earn $6k this summer to make it a choice, that may mean no summer vacation to the beach or no new clothes for college. It may mean all graduation money gifts have to be spent on tuition. It may mean no sorority membership and that she has to get a job right away at school. Not horrible, but choices.
One of my kids could have had her housing paid if she’d stayed on campus but she wanted to move out and live with her friends. Her choice, and her student loan. She doesn’t regret doing that at all, giving up free money to get the experience she wanted. She does rue (and mention) that she did not go to a ‘better’ college, one with more prestige, but really doesn’t mean that. She knows she’s in a great situation having graduated into a good job with very little debt. She also could have played at a D1 school (NOT Maryland) but never left the bench and that wasn’t the experience she wanted either. Choices.
And as always with eng kids, expect that drop out, weed out, or class fails are a potential. Have a plan for if she drops engineering and has no ROI benefit. Even great eng kids drop out. Bio eng is often skewed because there are a lot of pre meds upping the ante.
Agree with all that 3.2 in engineering may not be easy. The math and physics she’ll encounter later on will be quite a bit more difficult than what she saw in HS (far more advanced than on the standardized tests) and some kids can handle the ramping up pretty easily while others struggle.
I also would reserve the Roth money solely for retirement.
And yes, while UMD feels more like a prize now, a decade after graduation, she’ll realize there probably wasn’t much difference (besides cheering for Terps vs. Panthers or vice versa; the honors college maaaaybe a difference but even that maybe not).
As other mentioned, the school she thinks is a prize is seen as a backup to MD HS kids who see Pitt as a prize.
Ask her why what state she went to HS should determine the value of the college she chooses.
@bjkmom: it was a calculation mistake. The student is likely to have “regular” loans.
Most college graduates will have roommates if they live and work in a city - depending on where their parents live they may not be able to move back there since their job offer may require them to move elsewhere entirely.
@mom2collegekids : is UAH still accepting applications/ offering scholarships?
In case OP’s daughter wants another choice.
This student really wanted to attend Villanova (I think) and neither her nor her parents had run NPCs so costs are coming back with a vengeance limiting choices. Opening more choices might make things more palatable?
UNM may still have the Amigo scholarship. I’m not sure I’d turn down Pitt for UNM but it’s another choice, another experience.
Honors DOES make a difference in experience: smaller classes, opportunity to know classmates and professors - it can help in contrast to the big engineering lecture halls can be alienating (and the course content daunting).
Another thought is that if D can’t make the 3.2 threshold for the scholarship at UMD she will have to come home and attend the local public/regional college.
Not many engineering students will be taking honors courses at Pitt.
The main advantages are that the engineering specialty choice is left to the student, and no scholarship GPA threshold (at the moment).
The COOP program is well developed.
I don’t know if distance from home is closer or not, but it’s nice not to be that far from home.
I’ve heard that bioengineering might require grad school, has she considered that?
I remember two dilemmas last year. A PA student with a budget of around $10,000 but no affordable choices. She was able to be accepted late into honors at Youngstown State. I think she was interested in writing/journalism.
And another PA student who got into Pitt main for engineering but couldn’t afford the $30,000 plus price tag.
He got merit at Pitt Johnstown and last I heard was happily studying computer engineering there, at a much reduced price of $18,500 a year.
Pitt honors is very loose - non honors students can take honors sections for gen eds. Add a living learning community and you’ve got something personable.
(Honors seminars are especially valuable for freshmen, even in Engineering where they might not be into reading/discussing, because the format allows them to get to know classmates and professors, who help them get over the bumps in the road later on).
limiting choices. Opening more choices might make things more palatable?