<p>Where's Bryn Mawr in the LAC ranking?</p>
<p>Bm-21......................</p>
<p>Xiggi:</p>
<p>I pretty much agree with your thoughts on selectivity. I think it's a perfect example of how any "generic" ranking is problematic. The fact of the matter is that there are many reasons that otherwise superb schools would be less "desirable" and therefore less "selective". One reason would be that single-sex colleges are very popular these days. Another reason would be that it is difficult to find students who are dreaming of a college in Iowa. </p>
<p>This issue cuts both ways. For example, lower selectivity can be a huge PLUS in building a college list. Unless you have the "stats" to get in anywhere, looking for good admissions values is critical to building a healthy list. The fact that Scripps is easier to get into than Pomona is a very good thing if you can't get into Pomona!</p>
<p>With few exceptions, nobody will be able to get into a college that offers everything. Somewhere a compromise is going to have to be made unless you are fortunate enough to get accepted at your "dream" school. So even if the dream school is co-ed, taking advantage of the admissions value of a non co-ed school or a school in Iowa might be a great "compromise".</p>
<p>I think there should be a ranking for colleges who refuse to participate in the US News Rankings. Then everything would be fair. /injestofcourse. </p>
<p><em>hugs Reed</em></p>
<p>Reed would be number 1.</p>
<p>Actually, the data for Reed is available through its website. Obviously, I do not know the exact impact of Reed not communicating its numbers to US News. However, the numbers used by US News seem to be correct:</p>
<p>Admit Rate: 47%
Yield: 29% (not used in rankings)
SAT: 1270-1460
Percent of top 10: 59%
6 Year Graduation: 70%
Freshman Retention: 85%</p>
<p>Reed also receives a peer assessment of 3.9. </p>
<p>If there was a logic, this should place Reed in the range of Trinity or Kenyon.</p>
<p>If anyone is interested in seeing the 2003-2004 endowments for about 150 schools. I couldn't put more in due to the 10,000 character limit on posting. Here they are:</p>
<p>Market value (in thousands)<br>
Rank June 30, 2004 June 30, 2003 One-year
change </p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard U $22,143,649 $18,849,491 17.5% </li>
<li>Yale U $12,747,150 $11,034,600 15.5% </li>
<li>U of Texas System $10,336,687 $8,708,818 18.7% </li>
<li>Princeton U $9,928,200 $8,730,100 13.7% </li>
<li>Stanford U $9,922,000 $8,614,000 15.2% </li>
<li>Massachusetts Inst of Technology $5,865,212 $5,133,613 14.3% </li>
<li>U of California $4,767,466 $4,368,911 9.1% </li>
<li>Emory U $4,535,587 $4,019,766 12.8% </li>
<li>Columbia U $4,493,085 $4,343,151 3.5% </li>
<li>Texas A&M U System and Fdns $4,373,047 $3,802,712 15.0% </li>
<li>U of Michigan $4,163,382 $3,464,515 20.2% </li>
<li>U of Pennsylvania $4,018,660 $3,547,473 13.3% </li>
<li>Washington U in St Louis $4,000,823 $3,470,072 15.3% </li>
<li>Northwestern U $3,668,405 $3,051,167 20.2% </li>
<li>U of Chicago $3,620,728 $3,221,851 12.4% </li>
<li>Duke U $3,313,859 $3,017,261 9.8% </li>
<li>Rice U $3,302,455 $2,937,649 12.4% </li>
<li>Cornell U $3,238,350 $2,854,771 13.4% </li>
<li>U of Notre Dame $3,095,703 $2,573,346 20.3% </li>
<li>U of Virginia $2,793,225 $1,800,882 55.1% </li>
<li>Dartmouth C $2,454,293 $2,121,183 15.7% </li>
<li>U of Southern California $2,399,960 $2,113,666 13.5% </li>
<li>Vanderbilt U $2,296,262 $2,019,139 13.7% </li>
<li>Johns Hopkins U $2,055,542 $1,714,541 19.9% </li>
<li>Brown U $1,647,295 $1,461,327 12.7% </li>
<li>U of Minnesota and Fdn $1,542,863 $1,336,020 15.5% </li>
<li>Ohio State U and Fdn $1,541,175 $1,216,574 26.7% </li>
<li>New York U $1,449,500 $1,244,600 16.5% </li>
<li>Case Western Reserve U $1,441,819 $1,289,274 11.8% </li>
<li>Rockefeller U $1,394,736 $1,278,100 9.1% </li>
<li>U of Pittsburgh $1,364,882 $1,156,618 18.0% </li>
<li>U of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Fdns $1,317,211 $1,097,418 20.0% </li>
<li>U of Washington $1,315,894 $1,103,197 19.3% </li>
<li>Grinnell C $1,291,781 $1,111,615 16.2% </li>
<li>U of Rochester $1,261,562 $1,127,350 11.9% </li>
<li>California Inst of Technology $1,261,122 $1,151,148 9.6% </li>
<li>Williams C $1,229,516 $1,082,336 13.6% </li>
<li>Purdue U $1,207,131 $1,056,767 14.2% </li>
<li>Wellesley C $1,179,988 $1,043,476 13.1% </li>
<li>Boston C $1,150,148 $968,511 18.8% </li>
<li>Pomona C $1,149,720 $994,476 15.6% </li>
<li>U of Richmond $1,103,465 $996,710 10.7% </li>
<li>Swarthmore C $1,080,026 $930,373 16.1% </li>
<li>U of Illinois and Fdn $1,058,167 $904,960 16.9% </li>
<li>Pennsylvania State U $1,056,078 $919,422 14.9% </li>
<li>Indiana U and Fdn $1,012,707 $941,068 7.6% </li>
<li>Yeshiva U $1,003,024 $914,130 9.7% </li>
<li>U of Delaware $995,889 $868,065 14.7% </li>
<li>U of Wisconsin Fdn $994,172 $677,595 46.7% </li>
<li>Amherst C $993,417 $877,151 13.3% </li>
<li>U of Cincinnati $987,785 $873,327 13.1% </li>
<li>Baylor C of Medicine $972,351 $833,644 16.6% </li>
<li>U of Toronto $966,124 $788,774 22.5% </li>
<li>U of Nebraska and Fdn $959,861 $775,718 23.7% </li>
<li>Smith C $924,464 $823,915 12.2% </li>
<li>Southern Methodist U $914,527 $810,071 12.9% </li>
<li>Texas Christian U $868,907 $796,676 9.1% </li>
<li>Kansas U Endowment Association $849,255 $734,536 15.6% </li>
<li>U of Missouri System $844,477 $811,353 4.1% </li>
<li>Georgia Tech Fdn $814,963 $729,926 11.7% </li>
<li>Wake Forest U $812,192 $725,155 12.0% </li>
<li>Princeton Theological Seminary $801,193 $717,000 11.7% </li>
<li>Lehigh U $796,946 $705,426 13.0% </li>
<li>Berea C $794,963 $695,812 14.2% </li>
<li>Syracuse U $770,167 $656,893 17.2% </li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon U $768,990 $654,678 17.5% </li>
<li>Tufts U $752,428 $669,286 12.4% </li>
<li>Michigan State U $749,365 $592,004 26.6% </li>
<li>U of Florida Fdn $738,299 $585,695 26.1% </li>
<li>U of Iowa and Fdn $737,704 $638,996 15.4% </li>
<li>George Washington U $733,801 $634,100 15.7% </li>
<li>Saint Louis U $702,064 $645,382 8.8% </li>
<li>U of Tulsa $701,948 $640,119 9.7% </li>
<li>U of Alabama System $699,200 $602,301 16.1% </li>
<li>Boston U $694,051 $620,300 11.9% </li>
<li>Tulane U $692,665 $606,488 14.2% </li>
<li>Georgetown U $680,611 $591,042 15.2% </li>
<li>Trinity U (Tex) $673,572 $593,973 13.4% </li>
<li>Baylor U $672,341 $556,785 20.8% </li>
<li>U of Tennessee System $666,085 $592,194 12.5% </li>
<li>Middlebury C $664,781 $536,386 23.9% </li>
<li>U of Oklahoma and Fdn $631,376 $588,669 7.3% </li>
<li>U of Arkansas and Fdn $626,446 $546,267 14.7% </li>
<li>Vassar C $608,261 $546,854 11.2% </li>
<li>Oberlin C $593,742 $537,772 10.4% </li>
<li>McGill U $588,892 $530,610 11.0% </li>
<li>U of California at Los Angeles Fdn $586,839 $499,139 17.6% </li>
<li>Berry C $581,725 $547,040 6.3% </li>
<li>Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst $570,175 $510,883 11.6% </li>
<li>U of Louisville Fdn $554,840 $475,193 16.8% </li>
<li>Lafayette C $544,317 $496,410 9.7% </li>
<li>U of Maryland System and Fdn $533,059 $452,524 17.8% </li>
<li>U of British Columbia $523,580 $458,636 14.2% </li>
<li>Wesleyan U $517,631 $472,251 9.6% </li>
<li>Washington State U $515,571 $495,623 4.0% </li>
<li>Bowdoin C $514,243 $452,436 13.7% </li>
<li>Carleton C $511,200 $451,883 13.1% </li>
<li>U of Colorado Fdn $499,794 $386,935 29.2% </li>
<li>Northeastern U $498,481 $410,691 21.4% </li>
</ol>
<h2>100. U of Kentucky $488,827 $412,308 18.6% </h2>
<p>These were the top 100; here are the rest:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Macalester C $487,010 $435,732 11.8% </p></li>
<li><p>Hamilton C (NY) $486,477 $405,890 19.9% </p></li>
<li><p>Bryn Mawr C $478,452 $418,502 14.3% </p></li>
<li><p>Washington & Lee U $477,504 $416,855 14.5% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Georgia and Fdn $474,596 $397,082 19.5% </p></li>
<li><p>Rochester Inst of Technology $472,363 $412,907 14.4% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Miami $472,262 $411,618 14.7% </p></li>
<li><p>Brandeis U $467,727 $407,824 14.7% </p></li>
<li><p>Principia Corporation $463,893 $397,486 16.7% </p></li>
<li><p>Colgate U $463,436 $423,406 9.5% </p></li>
<li><p>Louisiana State U System $460,365 $416,939 10.4% </p></li>
<li><p>Rutgers U $449,889 $398,178 13.0% </p></li>
<li><p>Santa Clara U $449,543 $401,411 12.0% </p></li>
<li><p>Denison U $441,365 $415,895 6.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Pepperdine U $434,457 $393,838 10.3% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Alberta $430,087 $376,499 14.2% </p></li>
<li><p>Bucknell U $429,402 $355,905 20.7% </p></li>
<li><p>State U of New York pooled and U at Buffalo and Fdn $428,072 $378,385 13.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Drexel U $424,346 $349,948 21.3% </p></li>
<li><p>Colorado C $423,569 $372,073 13.8% </p></li>
<li><p>C of the Holy Cross $419,222 $358,093 17.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Florida State U Fdn $412,020 $333,750 23.5% </p></li>
<li><p>DePauw U $410,001 $376,030 9.0% </p></li>
<li><p>Endowment Association of C of William & Mary $409,872 $354,906 15.5% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Houston System $402,525 $364,154 10.5% </p></li>
<li><p>Iowa State U and Fdn $400,621 $339,330 18.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Mount Holyoke C $397,464 $357,704 11.1% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Utah $394,461 $333,253 18.4% </p></li>
<li><p>Texas Tech U $392,595 $343,881 14.2% </p></li>
<li><p>Furman U $384,540 $231,516 66.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Medical C of Wisconsin $372,535 $55,963 565.7% </p></li>
<li><p>Howard U $371,160 $317,110 17.0% </p></li>
<li><p>Virginia Tech Fdn $370,811 $331,311 11.9% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Mississippi and Fdn $367,368 $333,509 10.2% </p></li>
<li><p>Trinity C (Conn) $363,654 $340,832 6.7% </p></li>
<li><p>Colby C $357,171 $321,584 11.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Queens U (Ontario) $350,040 $302,865 15.6% </p></li>
<li><p>Earlham C $349,946 $301,163 16.2% </p></li>
<li><p>Haverford C $348,522 $278,404 25.2% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Arizona and Fdn $348,343 $297,745 17.0% </p></li>
<li><p>American U of Beirut $345,075 $299,883 15.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Rush U $340,186 $293,326 16.0% </p></li>
<li><p>Reed C $335,265 $296,525 13.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Davidson C $333,224 $283,935 17.4% </p></li>
<li><p>U of South Carolina System $329,791 $312,548 5.5% </p></li>
<li><p>North Carolina State U Endowment and Fdns $324,189 $289,060 12.2% </p></li>
<li><p>Wabash C $316,377 $298,264 6.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Claremont McKenna C $315,771 $285,916 10.4% </p></li>
<li><p>Franklin W Olin C of Engineering $312,003 $31,695 884.4% </p></li>
<li><p>U of California at San Francisco Fdn $310,519 $259,465 19.7% </p></li>
<li><p>U of Dayton $304,670 $258,064 18.1% </p></li>
<li><p>Loyola U of New Orleans $304,244 $273,178 11.4% </p></li>
<li><p>West Virginia U Fdn $303,532 $275,058 10.4% </p></li>
<li><p>Georgia Inst of Technology $302,671 $291,641 3.8%</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'd like to switch topics for a second and see what everyone thinks about the peer ratings. I have mixed feelings about the peer ratings - I used to think they were useless but after reading a few accreditation evaluations I started to become more convinced that maybe they are worth looking at, if only to get a general sense of how various schools are viewed within the academic community. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>Carolyn, the peer rating, as I understand it, are those rating as a result of professors in the same field. They rate each school. Frankly, if these guys don't know what are the better schools, I don't know who does.</p>
<p>my daughters private K-12 schools belonged to PNAIS- which had extensive self evaluations every few years overseen by a board of reps from peer schools. This was very helpful to the schools and I think was very valuable- however-the peer review might be as helpful as the peer review of local physicians in our city magazine.
Who they play golf with- who they know from clubs and conferences, but not because they are patients or necessarily know anything about how they conduct their practice
I suspect the peer reviews of colleges aren't much different</p>
<p>"If there was a logic, this should place Reed in the range of Trinity or Kenyon."</p>
<p>Sounds about right to me.</p>
<p>As for the peer ratings, I think they are useful but differences of +/-.1/.2 are likely not significant, and I do think that northeast schools benefit from them, due to the proximity factor previously noted.</p>
<p>IMO, the peer ratings are nonsense. The ratings are NOT done by professors. Only 3 people at each school in the same category rate other schools. I believe for universities these are the university president, the provost, and the dean of admissions. I KNOW the Dean of Admissions is one of them. </p>
<p>There's a wonderful book about the US college experience written by an author whose name I can't recall at the moment. However, he was the president of the U of Rochester and of a LAC-- I believe it was Bucknell or Lehigh-- within the same year. He ended up being asked to rate schools in both categories within the same year. He said that most college/university presidents knew a great deal about the schools in direct competition or within about a 500 mile radius, but next to nothing about others. The president of Bucknell will be asked to rate Scripps, a college with which he is very unlikely to have much familiarity. </p>
<p>Only those affiliated with institutions in the same category are asked to rate. Thus, the president of the University of Pennsylvania will not be asked to rate Swarthmore or Haverford---even though he might know FAR more about them than the president of Harvey Mudd, who will rate them. The president of Indiana University won't be asked to rate Depauw or Wabash or Hanover --all located in Indiana. The president of Boston College won't rate Fairfield or Providence College. </p>
<p>It would have some validity if professors were polled..but they are not.</p>
<p>BTW, if you click the 2005 college and university rankings on the US News site, you get the new 2006 rankings.</p>
<p>I have shared many times my views on the merits of the peer assessment. Rather than rehash the same tired argument, I prefer to let the latest reports speak for themselves. Compare this list with the numerical data, and you can draw your own conclusions. </p>
<p>Williams College (MA) 4.7
Amherst College (MA). 4.7
Swarthmore College (PA) 4.6
Wellesley College (MA) 4.6
Bowdoin College (ME) 4.4
Carleton College (MN) 4.4
Smith College (MA) 4.3
Middlebury College (VT) 4.3
Wesleyan University (CT) 4.3
Pomona College (CA) 4.3
Haverford College (PA) 4.2
Grinnell College (IA) 4.2
Davidson College (NC) 4.1
Vassar College (NY) 4.1
Harvey Mudd College (CA) 4.1
Claremont McKenna College (CA) 4.0
Colgate University (NY) 4.0
Colby College (ME) 4.0
Washington and Lee University (VA) 3.8
Hamilton College (NY) 3.8</p>
<p>I just posted in the other thread--over 1/3 of the peer ratings of the top 120 schools dropped this year compared to last year. Only 6 of the peer ratings increased in this group. </p>
<p>What does that mean?</p>
<p>What many of us have always known: peer assessment is bogus.</p>
<p>Here it is.....
1 Harvard University (MA)
1 Princeton University (NJ)
3 Yale University (CT)<br>
4 University of Pennsylvania<br>
5 Duke University (NC)
5 Stanford University (CA)
7 California Institute of Technology<br>
7 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology<br>
9 Columbia University (NY)
9 Dartmouth College (NH)
11 Washington University in St. Louis<br>
12 Northwestern University (IL)
13 Cornell University (NY)
13 Johns Hopkins University (MD)
15 Brown University (RI)
15 University of Chicago<br>
17 Rice University (TX)
18 University of Notre Dame (IN)
18 Vanderbilt University (TN)
20 Emory University (GA)
20 University of California Berkeley *
22 Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
23 Georgetown University (DC)
23 University of Virginia *
25 Univ. of California Los Angeles *
25 University of Michigan Ann Arbor *
27 Tufts University (MA)
27 U. of North Carolina Chapel Hill *
27 Wake Forest University (NC)
30 Univ. of Southern California<br>
31 College of William and Mary (VA)*
32 Lehigh University (PA)
32 Univ. of California San Diego *
34 Brandeis University (MA)
34 University of Rochester (NY)
34 Univ. of Wisconsin Madison *
37 Case Western Reserve Univ. (OH)
37 Georgia Institute of Technology *
37 New York University<br>
40 Boston College<br>
40 University of California Irvine *
42 U. of Illinois Urbana - Champaign *
43 Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. (NY)
43 Tulane University (LA)
45 Univ. of California Santa Barbara *
45 University of Washington *
45 Yeshiva University (NY)
48 Pennsylvania State U. University Park *
48 University of California Davis *
50 Syracuse University (NY)
50 University of Florida *</p>
<p>So is the consolidated thread not good enough for you???</p>
<p>Has anyone bought the online version? Benefits?
Also, is the hardcopy out in stores yet. Thanks.</p>
<p>Thumper...since your post was sort of "glossed over" :D, I'll pick up on it and let you know that I can relate to it very much. Neither of my kids have ever seen or are aware of USNew College Rankings. I barely knew much about them myself until I read CC where for the three years I have been on here, it is a BIG topic, if not it's own topic yearly, then it is referred to LOTS when talking about specific colleges or the selection of college "lists" for each student. I saw the magazine once and read it like any other article. Interesting reading, that was about it. </p>
<p>Never did we or our kids use rankings as a consideration for selecting colleges. I'm not even sure where each school on their list ranked and could not order them if asked. Theirs were ordered in "most favorite", "like a lot" and "least favorites but happy to attend" kind of piles. Like your kids, they selected schools that fit their individual criteria. True, they picked some very selective schools that fit their needs, but it was based on fit, not rankings. In fact, after my oldest child got all her acceptances in April of senior year, she narrowed them down to three schools and let me say, these were NOT necessarily the three highest "ranked" ones (on USNews) on her list, but simply her more favored schools. In fact, these were not necessarily all her reach schools, either. For example, she considered attending Tufts or Smith over UPenn, all of which she was admitted to. The prestige factor ot the rankings never entered into her discussion. My other D's programs don't follow these rankings. They do have "reputations" in her field, some higher than others. </p>
<p>Anyway, the emphasis on college rankings is something foreign to my personal experience and certainly is not a topic discussed in my community. But it very much is on CC and I gather amongst families elsewhere. It is something I have truly had my eyes opened to as a participant on these forums.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Please cut Ilovebasketball99 some slack...bball is a new member with 2 posts. </p>
<p>Bball, we all value your enthusiasm and desire to help. You'll get more familiar with how things are done here as you become more experienced. A number of US News 2006 threads were combined into one consolidated thread within the past couple of days.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting, and welcome to CC.</p>