<p>Twinmom- sadly getting a B+ in Ochem at Berkeley with 1200 others your prof is teaching that term feels like a great thing; it is only when you see it bring down your GPA that you realise it is risky.</p>
<p>Based on her sport and geography and net cost, Berkeley was the best choice, but her GPA would have been better at Vassar ;)</p>
<p>SomeMom: You’re preaching to the choir! I think a B+ is great … and I’m always preaching that same fact to my daughter who attends a large impersonal school. I did not mean to imply that it wasn’t a good grade at all!
My son at Vassar does not take science courses, though, believe it or not, it’s not all that easy to get an A there either!</p>
<p>My DD who had never gotten less than an A until her firs Berkeley chem class was in a panic at first and ended up quite proud of her B+…I think DD might ave gotten an A at a smaller school because it would have given her more opportunities to find the right motivations and study styles to show to her best potential, but not because it is easier. That is why it is all about fit.</p>
<p>In DD’s case, she made an eyes wide open decision to go with the little fish in a big pond instead of a small pond; we thoroughly discussed it pre-decision and she decided she wanted geography and her sport vs the small LAC. I know the way a parent knows that DD likely would earn higher grades in any situation where she could really get to know the prof. </p>
<p>Many people on this forum question big school vs small, private vs public. I have one in a private small LAC who knew more profs well at the end of one term than Berkeley DD knew as a senior. Cal DD is a kid who is experiencing success at Berkeley, but her MCAT is average for applicant so would a higher GPA have mattered- stay tuned and see…if she gets in nowhere then I will advise smaller school for that type of kid, if she makes it then I will advise that you can do whatever you set your mind to if you stay focused.</p>
<p>TM: I did not know your DS is at Vassar, that was one of DDs options.</p>
<p>An A is never ‘easy’, not even at a community college; you must be a dedicated student and do all work well and on time to earn an A in most any class (yes I had a few easy As in college, but you still must do the work on time and well); sometimes the competition and the curve is tougher, sometimes the subject matter, sometimes the test style, but it always takes discipline</p>
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Grades obtained in graduate school are figured into his GPA for med school application?</p>
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<p>if you don’t have a 35+ MCAT rethink applying to washU…and instead of applying to georgetown take $160 and set them on fire…there, you’ve applied to georgetown</p>
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<p>alot of people on SDN are full of it…a typical reason y u would get on the lower end range of your practice tests would be if you didn’t properly simulate testing conditions when doing the practice </p>
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<p>they are separate from undergrad grades and typically carry much less weight…unless the master’s program was a “special master’s program” where you basically take first year med school courses</p>
<p>I suspect they are not.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I do not know how to count the grades earned for graduate courses while the student is still an undergraduate student, in the case of a combined BS/MS program. My guess is that the grades count, as long as the grades are earned while you are an undergraduate. (I am not sure though.)</p>
<p>This reminds me of an advice that I was given while I was still an engineering student in a master program (many many years ago though). I was advised to take as many undergraduate engineering core courses (mostly sophomore and junior courses) as possible. The perspective employers are more concerned about whether you have completed “hardcore”/“lab-intensive” undergraduate engineering courses.</p>
<p>Many employers are fully aware that grades in many master programs tend to be inflated. Actually, many graduate students really do not care very much about their grades any more. They are more concerned about research and thesis/dissertation. The focus is just different.</p>
<p>Well… I have side tracked.</p>
<p>Grad courses taken in undergrad counts on the undergrad GPA.</p>
<p>And, yes, outside of SMP’s, grad school GPA’s do not carry much weight.</p>
<p>I think the point for my son was to show he was on an upward swing and he could handle the workload. I do not remember the reason he was actually given, but he was told he was lacking in research and attending grad school would be a plus.</p>
<p>Remember this is our state school, not some top tier medical school; not that our school is terrible, just one that flies under the radar.</p>
<p>Is a letter from a math professor considered a “science” letter? It’s part of BCPM… but not actually a science.</p>
<p>What would be considered a “decent” MCAT score?</p>
<p>28-30; not high enough to shoo you in, not low enough to keep you out of the ‘average’ medical school; with that kind of MCAT score the other factors will make the difference(GPA, EC’s). The average matriculant at the average medical school is a 3.6 GPA with a 29-30 MCAT.</p>
<p>Since we are talking about competitive MCAT and GPA scores here, I have a related question: There is something called LizzyM score that was mentioned at another popular medical admission site. I can not remember the details, but it is some combination of your MCAT score and GPA.</p>
<p>Have anyone here heard about this method of evaluating an applicant’s competitiveness just based on these two numbers? Is it as useful as the so-called “Academic Index” for undergraduate admission? (Just in case some CCer’s have not heard about this: The AI, or Academic Index, was made popular many years ago by an ex-admission officer from Dartmouth, in her book “A is for Admission.” It was rumored that Dartmouth was not particularly happy about this.)</p>
<p>There is also a rumor about something called “auto-invites” or “pre-secondary invites” at some “number-centric” medical schools: An applicant will (or likely) be invited for an interview just based on these two numbers. I wonder if this is true.</p>
<p>mcat2, I believe in the LizzyM to a great enough extent that I have calculated it for both matriculated and admitted students at almost all the schools. D can reference the chart while also looking at OOS stats, interview/acceptance stats, etc in determining where to apply OOS.</p>
<p>I think it’s just gpa x 10 + MCAT but it’s easy to find.</p>
<p>The index is GPA * 10 + MCAT. </p>
<p>Only a couple of med schools will give out automatic interviews based on numbers alone. University of Michigan and University of Pittsburgh does this. For UMich, you’ll need approx. 3.7+ GPA AND 36+ MCAT AND come from a decent undergrad to get the automatic interview. The cutoff is probably similar for University of Pittsburgh.</p>
<p>GPA<em>10 + MCAT + 1 = LizzyM score. You compare it against a school’s GPA</em>10 + MCAT.
Obviously it ignores the impact of the rest of your application on your competitiveness, but from a purely stats perspective it works - recognize that the farther you skew from one of the numbers (high GPA, low MCAT) the less “true” it is.</p>
<p>And yes, some schools do auto-invites. Michigan does this for applicants with a 3.8+/36+ I think, but only from certain undergrads.</p>
<p>I have no knowledge of the auto-invites, but I do believe there are auto-rejects based on similar formulas.</p>
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<p>i think you would have a very tough time applying with a 28 or 29 unless you are from a state with uncompetitive state schools or are willing to go just about anywhere in the country where you will probably end up paying ridiculous tuition as an OOS at a state school or at one of the more expensive private schools. a “decent” or “competitive” MCAT score is 30+ …that is the rule…if you get <30 then you should consider retaking and if you have an extremely unbalanced score, especially if any section is less than 8 or 9, you should consider retaking</p>
<p>The logistics of this are really, really …frustrating. D has another week to go at school, then she starts in earnest. Lots of prep work done, schools are picked, LOR’s requested…but her getting ready by mid-June seems a pipe-dream. Grades have to come back before requesting transcripts for Texas schools and I’m almost positive the LOR’s will be delayed by someone’s end of school/summer plans. </p>
<p>I know we have folks other than those who have posted that are applying this cycle. Tell us where you are in the process. SDN is a wasteland of neurosis and petty argument with an occasional nugget of pure gold. The 2014 thread and the Republic of Texas at SDN are some sort of pre-med facebook. </p>
<p>Let’s share some tips on this thread. As I said many moons ago regarding the UG app process (and in many other instances) we are all in this leaky boat together. ;)</p>
<p>And for those loathe to share for risk of hurting their own chances, I’ll just tell you what my kid always did in sports. She’d always help the other player up, then knock them down again. 
Good, fair competition never hurt anybody…it makes you a better competitor. That’s the way we roll. lol.</p>
<p>[FACTS</a> table: MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees to Medical School by Race & Ethnicity](<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm]FACTS”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm)</p>
<p>As you can see; a MCAT score of 27 marks the major demarcation line for accepted students; it is a ‘decent’ score(not a GREAT score); perhaps I misinterpreted what was meant by the word ‘decent’;</p>
<p>for white applicants same demarcation at 27, above that-it is other factors. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/MCATGPAgridWHITE.pdf[/url]”>http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/MCATGPAgridWHITE.pdf</a></p>