2010-2011 Med school applicants and their parents

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>I’ve got an old MSAR here. Steeler is right on the facts, but my point stands on the strategy. Take a look.</p>

<p>For the class entering 2004 (I told you it was old), UVa had 686 resident applicants for 225 interview spots (33%). They had 2733 OOS applicants for 274 interview spots (10%). [My MSAR doesn’t have admissions data. Maybe somebody with a USN can help with this.]</p>

<p>Compare to Harvard Med’s overall: 5394 applicants got 711 interviews (13%).</p>

<p>By the odds, you’re better off applying to Harvard compared to UVa. And that’s already one of the OOS-friendliest schools out there (a 23% differential). On the school list above, you can compare it to Iowa (64% differential), Oregon (37%), and Vermont (62%). I just can’t countenance advising anybody to fight that kind of an uphill battle.</p>

22

<p>I think it’s gotten more favorable in recent years. According to US News last year (so 2007-2008 data), UVa had the following numbers for OOS: 2098 applied, 361 interviewed (17%), 239 accepted (66%).</p>

<p>I have no idea if this last number was a typo or fluke, can anyone with access to this year’s US News (very helpful tool) check?</p>

<p>Based on this year’s MSAR:
Michigan: interviewed 18% IS, 13% OOS.
UVa: interviewed 20% IS, 12% OOS.</p>

23

<p>Another thought on OOS, my DD really wanted to stay in the more western US, she applied to the TX schools and even though she did not get verified until July, she still got 2 interview invites, including Texas Tech, which from my reading looked like the least likely to invite OOS, so in her case that blanket TX app was worthwhile. There was a base fee and then $10 per school to add the rest and not many secondaries.</p>

<p>You might look at historical secondaries on SDN- KS was brutal as was Minnesota, as I recall.</p>

<p>I have read that VT really does not interview many OOS until the spring, speculation on SDN was that they waited to weed out those who would be getting into and choosing their state schools so that those who came to interview in Feb or Mar were also likely to need to pick VT.</p>

<p>When you say Michigan do you mean state or U of? State = nearly $80k tuition too :(</p>

<p>I would not bother with places like KS/NE/WI/MN unless you have really high stats and a reason to go to that state in particular, a personal connection.</p>

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<p>Some great advice Curm posted was “the data is your friend”.</p>

<p>D and I have composed a spreadsheet with the 2008 and the 2009 data from USN including MCAT averages, # OOS applying (whether the school is public or private, as several private schools have very high in-state numbers), # OOS interviewed, # OOS accepted, # OOS enrolled, % women, % nontraditional (since she is not), % in-state, % with 2 degrees (since she falls in that category), and PC/R ranking. And, total enrolled – she doesn’t want a school that is too large or too small. Out of the entire MSAR, she came up with 26 schools that were possibilities. Out of that, she whittled it down to @ 12-14. Another catch here is she hasn’t taken the MCAT yet. That is a whole other story – working toward two degrees, keeping her GPA up, Grandfather died and the funeral was THE DAY previous MCAT was scheduled, etc. Studying like a maniac right now, but not testing until mid-June. </p>

<p>As mentioned, many privates have pretty high percentages of in-state – Baylor (of course), Rochester (44.8%-2008,48.2%-2009), Case (35.6%-2008). Even Pitt is 30% in-state.</p>

<p>Mike, you are absolutely correct that your best chance (other than your state school/schools) are the privates. </p>

<p>2009
Iowa-
OOS 2442 app – 408 int (16.7%) – 140 acc (34.3%) – 68.2% in-state</p>

<p>Oregon –
64.2% in-state, but only has an 8.2% OOS interview rate</p>

<p>Vermont –
OOS 5720 (LARGE #), 530 int (9.3%), 187 acc (35.3%) – 30.1% in-state (so @ 70% OOS)
Hmmm…seems like a high # of OOS students when they only interview 9.3%!!!</p>

<p>Virginia –
OOS 2157 app – 392 int (18.2%) – 252 acc (64.3%) – 58% in-state</p>

<p>So much data to crunch……………so little time!</p>

25

<p>sharonohio,
D. is applying (or not) in few weeks depending on her MCAT score (taking MCAT in 2 days). Thank you for starting this thread. And we are also in Buckeye state (I assume from your name). D. will be UG senior next year.</p>

26

<p>Son is applying this cycle as well. Is a senior graduating, has what I think is an okay MCAT score but he is retaking again in July. Not a traditional major, but has a ton of science courses…He came home for a few days to finish up his app on AMCAS and line-up his LORs. Signed up for more science classes this summer and will be doing some research as well. He’s back at school getting ready for all the celebrations that occur at his school for grad week and will be putting the final touches on his app so he can submit. His transcripts have been ordered and mailed, so we shall see.</p>

<p>He has a list of schools but it changes quite frequently.</p>

<p>Fun,fun,fun.</p>

<p>Kat
he is applying for joint programs md/mba so its a little wonky what schools he is looking at</p>

27

<p>How did your kids know where they want to apply? I just got done with my sophomore year and kinda sorta just barely starting to think about that stuff. Without an MCAT score its pretty hard anyways but how did your kids narrow it down from the 130 or so medschools out there to a final list?</p>

28

<p>Chemfreak:
Your state school(s)
privates in your stat range</p>

<p>So, really geography and stats</p>

29

<p>Chemfreak,
It depends on individual preferences and MCAT score. My D. wants to be within about 5 hours from home, preferrably closer. She has preliminary list, it is relatively short. The final will depend on her score. It has been discussed with her pre-med advisor.</p>

30

<p>Found a very detailed spreadsheet on SDN which DH and I loaded with son’s data. Then spent an hour with him last night discussing it. So I think there’s now a plan (was definitely helpful for picking which med schools to even bother applying to). I definitely agree with the in states first and then privates that match scores. He’s also going to apply to at least one out of the country as a backup. </p>

<p>Does anyone know whether the students residency is in any way affected by the parents? We are thinking of moving within the next few months (to a state with fewer med schools). I’m assuming that will not impact him.</p>

<p>Personal statement is being written and rewritten. His research work continues. Unfortunately there won’t be any paper published in time.</p>

<p>And MiamiDAP yes, we’re in OH.</p>

31

<p>^OSU, Cinci are on your list? We do not know final list yet, but we have spreadsheet with preliminary list designed by me. D. for some reason got pre-occupied with financial side, I told her not to bother, but she keeps bringing it up. The diff. between cheapest and most expnsive is not that great to even consider it as one of criteria. On D’s list, this diff. is about $45,000 (total). But again, this list might be demolished in 2-3 weeks.</p>

32

<p>Check your state’s residency requirements for those schools, usually if the student is already a resident of the state your move is not a problem, especially since he is likely independent. However, is he a dependent on your taxes? Does that affect anything? Ask the school? Has he been at university OOS the past 4 years? Does that affect the residency question. Each state is a bit different.</p>

<p>As far as I can tell you need to prove residency at the time of the application, so if that is summer 2010, the question is where have you been a resident for the past 12 months and then most schools seem to not ask again.</p>

33

<p>By in state do you mean public schools, or private schools too? My state has only one public school but we also have two private schools one of which is very very competitive to get into.</p>

34

<p>

I would strongly urge against this. DO schools make excellent backup options for MD-applicants, and NP and PA programs can be as well. Overseas medical schools are not a good option.</p>

<hr>

<p>Some private schools also display strong in-state preferences (see, e.g., Wake Forest). You’re trying to take advantage of that if you possibly can.</p>

35

<p>bluedevilmike, can you explain why out of country is so bad. I understand in some select cases there isn’t that big a difference in getting accepted to residency (Grenada specifically). Since OH has two DO schools I did suggest that as well but he seems to think that’s a worse option than abroad. I would like to be knowledgeable enough to have an intelligent conversation with him on this so any info would be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>MiamiDAP, While Cinci and OSU are on the list I think they’re both unlikely (particularly OSU). If residency is determined by this summer than OH residents we all are.</p>

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</p>

<p>Also:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2687174-post4.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2687174-post4.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<hr>

<p>Compare this to a DO option, where DO’s can opt into the MD residency but also have their own residency program which permits them to become fully licensed physicians here in the states.</p>

<p>It is also important to remember that overseas MD schools for Americans is a much worse option. For example, AKU in Pakistan is an excellent option for people who grew up in Pakistan. It is a horrible option for Americans.</p>

<p>(This is intuitive if you think about the undergraduate level: imagine somebody who attends a flagship-but-not-amazing state college, perhaps the University of Mississippi or something like that. Many of the Mississippi students there will be excellent students. But the odds of an excellent California student ending up there are much slimmer.)</p>

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<p>You can also use this board as an informal survey, if you like. The consensus among our medical students–and, in all modesty, this board’s medical students are a survey from America’s very most elite medical schools–will be nearly universal that the DO is the better option compared to an overseas MD.</p>

38

<p>The data’s pretty clear on this one. If you go to an out-of-country MD school, you have a good chance of not passing the USMLE and even those who do pass have only a 60% chance of getting residency, any residency, here.</p>

<p>If you go to a DO school, there is a very very high chance you will become a physician and practice in the US. Even if, for whatever reason, you want to do an allopathic residency, DO students still do better on the USMLE and attaining MD residencies than MD students from out of the country. </p>

<p>There is a systemic bias against foreign medical graduates for whatever reason. For example, the head of anesthesiology at my school says that they absolutely will not look at any applications from foreign medical graduates but they have no problems taking DO students.</p>

39

<p>And, to add to what NCG was saying, the bias is even stronger against Americans who went overseas.</p>

<p>Of course (1) American MDs are the most in demand, followed by (2) American DOs, (3) foreign candidates who are actually from the country in question.</p>

<p>(4) Americans who went overseas for an MD are at a huge disadvantage relative to any of the three above.</p>

<p>(*I’m not totally sure about 2 vs. 3. Might be flipped, although NCG suggests otherwise)</p>

40

<p>I would agree with that ranking, even from the point of view of an allopathic residency. A DO applying for allopathic residency likely has pretty good USMLE scores, as would a foreign medical graduate applying for allopathic residency. However, the difference is that many foreign medical graduates study YEARS for these exams while the DO likely had very limited time (considering DO’s must take and pass the COMLEX as well). And then there is the language issue which unfortunately plagues foreign medical graduates.</p>