2011 acceptance rates

Prep School Admissions
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<p>Two years ago, the SPS legacy number was 17.1% for the school. According to Winterset on the SPS thread, the range by class has historicall been between 12% and 24%.</p>

<p>Regarding the Exeter acceptance rate, it has been consistently in the high teens for a few years now. SPS, Andover, and Deerfield’s rates have been consistently in the mid-teens and barely changed with the introduction of Gateway last year.</p>

<p>Until last year, the long essay at Deerfield had to be hand written. Since one had to use their application, most completed the entire application by hand. The DA acceptance rates was about the same last year using Gateway as the years before Gateway, so please do not use that as an excuse for Exeter’s higher acceptance rate.</p>

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<p>It would be interesting if we had the data to look at it a different way. Maybe in the future. Right now folks are trying to use “acceptance rate” and “yield” to figure out both how selective, how desirous but also as a proxy of “how good a school it is.”</p>

<p>I think all of it is folly. The data I would like to see for boarding school is Early Decision like data. Out of those who apply, how many really see it as their first choice, due to fit, prestige, breadth, depth, what they offer etc.</p>

<p>The yield doesn’t get to that. For a lot of kids who accept an offer, it really wasn’t their first choice. I’m more interested in what students like or need in a school and less interested in how selective a school is.</p>

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<p>^& I’m much more interested in exit statistics that deal with satisfaction 5 and 10 years out.</p>

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That is a whole new discussion isn’t it? Suggestion: start another thread.</p>

<p>Pelican. – Andover will start tracking their graduates from the 2011 class, and see what long term impact the school is having on their students. Don’t ask me how they will do that!</p>

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<p>^ Should be interesting to see how Andover will group the outcomes. Will salary be a criteria? Will certain jobs be considered more prestigious than others? I can only imagine the arguments such a study will generate on CC.</p>

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<p>I hope they will at least ask the alums to evaluate their Andover education’s role in their success in career and in life, however they define that success. It would be interesting also to see how their perceptions of their high school experience would change with time as they grow older…</p>

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<p>Brilliant idea, I think that may open a lot of people’s eyes. They should start with GWB’s class.</p>

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<p>Invent, do you know how soon you can drop out after you enroll in the prep school so you could get a tuition refund? I remember there’s some rule there. You could use that cash for your company. I’m glad you’ve got over the school thing and moved on.</p>

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<p>redbluegoldgreen,</p>

<p>As top prep schools routinely reject hundreds of qualified students every year, it is probably safe to assume that the full pay students they accept are qualified – or at least almost always qualified, as there are usually limited exceptions to every general rule. However, the fact that these full pay students are qualified does not address the question of whether and to what extent they had a competitive advantage over equally or more qualified financial aid applicants. </p>

<p>I don’t pretend to have a definitive answer for this question since admission decisions appear to result from a black box process that is more an art than a science. Nevertheless, I do wonder whether we might be able to hazard a working hypothesis to explain what you have described as the Rich Kid Theory. </p>

<p>To that end, I propose that we engage in a thought experiment. Let’s take two hypothetical applicants who are applying to the same highly competitive need-aware prep schools. Let’s assume that each of these boarding schools has an admission rate of less than 20% and offers generous, but not unlimited, financial aid. Let’s also assume that each candidate is equally qualified in every way (e.g., comparable grades, test scores, extracurricular activities, hooks, essays, interviews, etc.) except that one requires financial aid and the other is a full pay student. </p>

<p>My guess is that the full pay and financial aid applicants are on an equal playing field if they are either slam-dunk admits or clear-cut denies. Hence, a slam-dunk admit at the pinnacle of the applicant pool will likely be admitted to one or more of these schools regardless of whether he is a financial aid or a full pay student. Likewise, a clear-cut deny at the other end of the admission spectrum will almost certainly be rejected by all of these highly competitive schools without reference to whether he is a financial aid or full pay applicant. </p>

<p>However, I suspect that matters become considerably more problematic for financial aid applicants who are clear-cut or border-line admits. That is, applicants who are in the middle 50% or lower 25% of admitted students. Hence, can’t we all contemplate circumstances where a need-aware school, concerned about its financial aid budget, might reject or wait list a financial aid applicant who is a clear-cut or border-line admit in favor of a comparable or less qualified full pay applicant? And can’t we also envision how a financial aid applicant might be passed over on the waiting list for a comparable or less qualified full pay student by a school that has exhausted its financial aid budget?</p>

<p>Given the foregoing, can we posit the following two working hypotheses for the Rich Kid’s Theory?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>A financial aid applicant is not at a competitive disadvantage to a comparably qualified full pay applicant at a need aware school if each is a slam-dunk admit or clear cut deny.</p></li>
<li><p>A financial aid applicant may be at a competitive disadvantage to a comparable or less qualified full pay applicant at a need aware school if each is a border line or clear-cut admit.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Jmilton, I don’t think “competitive disadvantage” comes into play. Need-aware schools know how much financial aid they have to disburse. Thus, they know before the admissions season roughly how many spots will be covered by financial aid, and how many must be full-pay. I don’t think it ever happens that a full-pay applicant “takes away” a spot from a financial aid candidate, (and vice versa), because the schools know from the outset how many financial aid students they can afford. </p>

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<p>But that never happens. Lots of kids are equally worthy of admission. Schools value campus diversity, athletic prowess, character and intellectual potential. How do you compare a football star from Nebraska vs. a gifted swimmer from Greenwich? If anything, the swimmer from Greenwich may be at a disadvantage.</p>

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<p>I think it’s worthwhile to look at the issue from the ways applications are processed at BS. With need-aware schools, one approach is a quota system, where FA applicants and full pay applicants are put in different pools. In this system, assuming on average the quality of applicants in both pools are equal, and if the admit rate in one pool is lower than the other, then yes a candidate that otherwise would be admitted may not be admitted because he’s in the wrong (i.e. FA) pool. </p>

<p>Another approach (I believe Exeter has it) is to apply “need-blind” admission first, and then based on the school’s FA budge and admitted students’ FA need pick out some admitted applicants who need FA and replace them with full pay applicants who are also admissible but haven’t been chosen in the first round for their lack of the most desirable traits the school is looking for for a certain class. </p>

<p>In both cases, FA applicants would have disadvantages.</p>

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<p>Periwinkle,</p>

<p>Thank you for your post.</p>

<p>I understand how a need aware prep school might create a quota for financial aid admits based upon its limited budget and past financial aid awards updated to match current economic reality and the increase in tuition. Given the variables involved, however, I doubt this process is infallible. And I can envision circumstances where it might place financial aid applicants at a competitive disadvantage vis-</p>

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<p>Hogwash. It is proven using statistics (not surmises) that the admit rate for FA is lower than FP, period. Don’t use semantics or sugar coat it. That will only mislead applicants which is good for your bottom line (if you are an AO) ie the school admit rate statistics, large number of applicants who will be rejected contributing to their denominator of the admit rate quotient. :D</p>

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<p>What are the statistics, and how do they prove, or disprove, your stated premise “that the admit rate for FA is lower than FP”?</p>

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<p>Check out Ifax’s post from earlier in this thread. This is something it said on the Groton website.</p>

<p>“We have been tracking our admission activity over the years and can relate that the admit rates for financial aid applicants have been between 10% and 20% while the admit rates for those not applying for aid have been between 25% and 30% year to year.
Groton School :: Admission :: Financial Aid Topics”</p>

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<p>The words “naive” and “actor or actress” are invented for a reason. :D</p>

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<p>Markalex1,</p>

<p>Thanks for your excellent post!</p>

<p>Because the proof is always in the pudding, the Groton statistics Ifax and you refer to are fascinating. </p>

<p>As they relate to one school, the question arises whether they are a sufficient statistical sampling to be representative of competitive need aware schools in general. If they are, financial aid applicants do seem to be at a distinct competitive disadvantage to full pay students. </p>

<p>In fairness, I am not an expert in statistical analysis. Hence, I do not know whether or to what extent one can extrapolate admission statistics from Groton and apply them to other schools, no matter how compelling those statistics may be. </p>

<p>Perhaps other CC members can provide insight into this issue or supply further statistics comparing the admission rates for financial aid and full pay applicants at other need aware prep schools.</p>

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<p>jimilton, statistics or not, the idea that FA applicants have disadvantages in gaining admission to need-aware BS (or colleges for that matter) is actually more of a mainstream idea on this board and maybe elsewhere as well. RGBB was arguing that full pay students are just as qualified as FA students, which on an individual basis I have no doubt about (meaning, if you say John is full pay and he is as or more qualified than David who is on FA, I’d say yes that’s totally possible). But if we want to prove that’s true for the whole population, and at the same time believe that some more qualified applicants are turned down because of their FA needs, then it’s going to be tough. We then have to assume that full pay pool in general is so much stronger than FA pool that it can wash out the effect of some strong FA applicnats being “replaced” by some less strong FP applicants. Some argue that it’s possible because FP students tend to have the resources to tap into their talents and develop their abilities from early on in their lives than some of their peers who are worse off, and therefore are more ready for BS, which becomes such a positive trait that a BS wants and gives them the advantage - even without their full pay status playing a role. However, I don’t believe there’s that kind of statistics anywhere to support or undermine the hypothesis.</p>

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<p>I think, yes most FP students are as talented and smart as FA, because think about it, I bet every boarding school is mostly FP. And these school’s wouldn’t have such amazing reputations, because only recently did these schools try to become more(10 or 15 years) “financially diverse” and they turned out tons of succes stories before then. So, I don’t there is really a correlation. I would bet the vast majority of FP’s aren’t the D students who’s daddies donated a building. And I wouldn’t blame the schools for picking a FP who’s just as good as an FA, it makes more financial sense.</p>

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<p>Haa this thread is getting very academic now I see with brilliant minds chipping in.</p>