<p>Holy crap this USNWR subscription is GOLD!!! so much useful info like accepted v matriculated, mcat score breakdown, IS v OOS v minorities. Def worth the $30. </p>
<p>So how does one make a list? and how many schools? I live in the Illinois (which has 7 med schools of its own) and have stats that are competitive basically everywhere. I def want to do research in med school but not a full blown md-phd. thoughts?!</p>
<p>(1) Apply to every medical school in your state.
(2) Do not apply to any OOS publics, with possibly 1 or 2 exceptions if their OOS admissions percentages are reasonable.
(3) Aim for 15-20 total applications.
(4) Pick schools where your scores are a little bit above the mean of their eventual student body.
(5) Pay attention to admissions percentages. Some schools have extremely low percentages despite normal MCAT scores and GPA; these are very hard to get into.</p>
<p>Okay thanks BDM. These are great guidelines for a rough list! </p>
<p>Also, someone asked me to PM the residency directors assessment score (out of 5) for the top 10 schools this year. I can’t send private messages because I have less than 15 posts (??) so I’ll just post 'em here!
Harvard 4.7
Stanford 4.6
JHU 4.7
UCSF 4.6
UPENN 4.5
WashU 4.6
Yale 4.4
Columbia 4.4
Duke 4.6
Pritzker 4.2
UMich 4.6 </p>
<p>How are these numbers useful to any premed? :/</p>
<p>I agree with Mike in general, but might be a little gutsier. If your stats are competitive “basically everywhere,” (which to me means 3.8+ and 35+) and you’ve hit the major categories of extracurriculars (research, volunteering, leadership, clinical, shadowing, etc), AND you’d be happy at one of Illinois’s schools, I think 10-12 would be a better number. In my opinion, once you get to more than 10 secondaries, you’re spending a lot more money and a lot more time (consider both of those when it comes to completely and submitting secondaries–$100 each–and attending interviews during fall semester–probably closer to $1000 each if you have to fly and stay in a hotel). When adding schools to your list, think about how you would feel if that were your only acceptance–would you be thrilled to go, or are you only adding it “just in case”? With the exception of each public school in your state, I think adding “just in case” schools is probably not in your best interest.</p>
<p>Does the school you go to now have a med school? Do you have any reason to believe you have a better than average shot at that school? </p>
<p>I agree that USNWR is a great resource for data. When it comes to narrowing down that list, I’d recommend thinking about your learning style and how that maps to various curriculum styles (eg do you like having quizzes every week, or just a midterm and a final? Big anonymous lecture hall, or small group collaborative work? Multiple individual courses, or an integrated program?) Figure out the answers to these questions–think about things like what your favorite courses were in undergrad and why, what type of social situations you gravitate to, where you feel the most comfortable, etc. I’m a firm believer that the environment you’re in plays a huge role in your success!</p>
<p>I thought it was particularly fun and interesting to read press releases/the “News” section of various med school websites. What sorts of things are they bragging about? Should give you some insight into what they value, and perhaps what they’re looking for in future students.</p>
<p>Every single person has his/her own selection criteria. Using some general rules is not appropriate and will result in frustration. What is important for some, might be very negligible consideration for another. Do not listen too much to others, listen to yourself! However, again, it has worked for my D. and may not work for you which is a proof that there are ABSOLUTELY NO GENERAL RULES.</p>
<p>mcatflow,</p>
<p>i can see why someone would think that number is important, but really it isn’t. High boards scores and lots of honors in medical school will trump the reputation of the medical school 100 times out of 100.</p>
<p>^yes, that is what I hear from real MDs. But it is important to be at the place that somewhat matches you. Well, again, it was important for my D. she withdrew from couple after an interview (was on hold, not rejected). She simply said that she cannot see herself being part of these programs. As I said, this might be negligible consideration for somebody else.</p>
<p>^I 100% agree, but the score program directors gave to each medical school does not speak to that at all.</p>
<p>
This begs a related question that has been asked many times here in the past:</p>
<p>Does the following statement also have any truth?
High MCAT scores and the GPAs (or the Latin Honors because of it) from your college will trump the reputation of the college 100 times out of 100.</p>
<p>If this has some truth, the merit system in our education system seems to value 1) standardized test skills 2) Beating those from your own school academically. If this is indeed true, it may not be wise to go to a “premed factory” where well too many ambitious premeds are eager to attend. (maybe expept that you are only interested io attending one of the very top med schools in the research med school list, like some of the naive high schoolers aspire to.)</p>
<p>On the other hand, i-banking.consulting career path is a totally different story.</p>
<p>Again thanks BDM and Kristin. You guys have some really solid advice; I might be sharing a rough list of school on here (along with some stats about myself) sometime soon. </p>
<p>Otherwise, I had a question about personal statements. I’m already starting on the primary one, and was wondering how one goes about it. Did any of you look at those “Medical College Essays” books that show examples of previous applicants’ essays? Did your college show you templates or give you guidelines? I know this is <em>much</em> more important than essays written for undergrad (I didn’t even spend much time on mine when I was a senior in high school), but just need some guidance on answering “Why Medicine?” </p>
<p>P.S. I recently looked at the one I wrote for a combined B.S./M.D. program (that I got into but declined) and it really sucked. So I need fresh ideas! </p>
<p>P.S.S. should I even bring that up in this years essays and interviews? That I was already accepted in a medical program but decided it would be better to explore the profession more and get more insight before jumping into it? Or would admissions committees look at it as being hesitant and not really into medicine? </p>
<p>Thanks in advance!!</p>
<p><em>P.P.S.</em> ahhhh</p>
<p>I really am not a fan of B.S./M.D. programs, and I secretly suspect that most medical school admissions committees feel the same way, so I don’t think it needs to be discussed. It’d be like coming up with an explanation for why you haven’t amputated any of your toes.</p>
<p>With that said, I suppose you might think of a short, single line (“wanted to go to college at the place I went”) to dispatch any interview questions that might come up.</p>
<hr>
<p>Essays revolve around one question: Why do you want to go to medical school? They are difficult because there is only one reasonable answer (to help people), but that answer is stupid (almost every job, if done right, helps people), trite (everybody will say it), and generic (why do you want to help people in this way?).</p>
<p>And yet that’s the only reasonable answer, so you’re stuck with it. Saying anything ELSE (“this is what I’ve wanted since I was four!”) is even worse.</p>
<p>So how do you make it less stupid, less trite, and less generic? By telling YOUR story. Don’t list reasons, tell stories – patients you’ve met, doctors you spoke to, illnesses you’ve faced. Stories. Tell your story about why you, specifically, want to be a doctor.</p>
<p>And if you don’t have one yet, well – now’s the time to think back over your life and lay a story over it. There’s always a story in everything, and it’s the author’s job to find it.</p>
<hr>
<p>Finally, I would say that this essay is more important than most college essays, but if you were applying to elite undergrad programs, this essay is probably LESS important than those.</p>
<p>I agree that you should show them (as opposed to telling them) why you want to go into medicine, and that it should be a story only you can share. You should also always strive to say why you do something or add “because…” to the end of your sentences!</p>
<p>
We did not read DS’s PS. But 2 years before his application cycle, one of his parents was very sick. Essentially, only today’s medicine could save her. I believe this touched him very personally.</p>
<p>But we do not know whether he included this experience in his “why medicine” essay.</p>
<p>" B.S./M.D. programs"
-Many times there is not difference whatsoever, in a program or regular route, the students are all together. Some bs/md participants keep low profile in regard to that (my D. did). She did not want the negativity from others in reagard to her "guaranteed spot, so other pre-meds did not even know that she was in a program and most (if not all other pre-meds) did not know about existance of the bs/md at their school. Program had only 10 spots in each year. D. has talked to other participants literally very few times in her 4 years at college, none of them were her crowd. D. did not feel any negatvie effect in her adventure into Medical School application process either. I do not believe that her participation in bs/md ever came up at all. Her acceptance success rate was in line with predicted and she had very good choices and ended up going to Med. School of her choice when she was at HS. Kind of strange how it all has worked, strange in a positive way though.</p>
<p>mcat2,</p>
<p>assuming the rest of the app is in place as well (i.e. you’re not a robot with no social skills or any clue what being involved in medicine is about) then yeah, a 45/4.0 from random U is better than a 27/3.3 from Harvard 100 times out of 100. It’s easy to speculate about that absolute, the issue becomes as you creep closer and closer together. For example, is a 36/3.9 from random U better than a 34/3.7 from an ivy/duke/stanford/MIT/caltech/NW/WUSTL/JHU etc?</p>
<p>Also, another factor is that the difference between the top UGs and the bottom UGs is far, far, far, greater than the difference between the top Med schools and the bottom med schools. Instead of random U and Harvard, it’s more like comparing Harvard and state flagship (i.e. maybe it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, leather bound books, and rich mahogany of the elite institutions, but it’s full of quality students and teaching)</p>
<p>With regard to the essay, I think it’s also important to demonstrate why you have the potential to be a good doctor, not simply that you want to be one. I’d love to be an NFL player but no GM is going to offer me a contract regardless of how good a job I do explaining why I want to be one. Now, one might say: doesn’t the rest of your app show that? Yes and no. Your application as a whole should be one neat tidy package, and your essays are where you tie everything together into a cohesive image of who you are, why you want to be a doctor, and why you should be.</p>
<p>"Also, another factor is that the difference between the top UGs and the bottom UGs is far, far, far, greater than the difference between the top Med schools and the bottom med schools. Instead of random U and Harvard, it’s more like comparing Harvard and state flagship "
-in regard to comparison of Us and non-flagship public state. D. is surrounded by many (high percentage, maybe over 50%) in her Med. School class who graduated from Ivy’s and Berkeley is beating all others. She went to public non-flagship UG. She does not feel any inferior to ALL around her, and her class also includes few MS’s (at least one is from JHU), PhD from Harvard and few lawyers. She feels at the same level, she was told several times that she is doing very well. She had worked very hard in her UG, it was not easy at all coming from the private prep HS, the best in our area. HS to UG was a huge adjustment and so was the adjustment UG to Med. School. But so what? If you want to do well, you adjust, simple as that, there no other tricks, name of your UG will not help you. Her entire Med. School class feels the same way no matter where they came from. In fact, many from fancy schools just do not know how to keep it cool and D. is staying away from them, she does not want to hear all the moanning and groanning. She just has her own plan and try to stick to it and that was she was told is the best.</p>
<p>
[quote]
is a 36/3.9 from random U better than a 34/3.7 from an ivy/duke/stanford/MIT/caltech/NW/WUSTL/JHU etc?]/quote]</p>
<p>I think there is some respect for well known and well reputed schools. When DD got into the well ranked state medical school, they offered about 10% of the future class an early admission in the fall. In looking at the facebook group those kids created, let’s just say I recognized all the schools, most of them anyone on this board would recognize, but there were a couple of kids from a local small LAC, one that likely none of you have heard of, but in our state it has a solid reputation. So, if the lower ranked choice is one that is well known in your area, that may be a non issue</p>
<p>For example, is a 36/3.9 from random U better than a 34/3.7 from an ivy/duke/stanford/MIT/caltech/NW/WUSTL/JHU etc?</p>
<p>I think nearly any medical school would find those stats to be excellent and worthy of at least an interview (except maybe score-whore WashU…lol). Anyone with a 36 MCAT and very high GPA is showing that s/he can be successful anywhere, so why would a SOM care/worry about the name of the undergrad? After all, rankings aren’t influenced by where the matriculants went to undergrad.</p>
<p>This reminds me of when older son started his PhD program. The new students went to a luncheon with the profs and everyone went around and introduced themselves, mentioned their undergrads, etc. Yes, the Usual Suspects were mentioned (ivies, etc) and some flagship grads, but not only were a few students from small unknown privates/LACs, there was a student from an unranked Texas public. It’s all about the students’ accomplishments.</p>
<p>I agree that both 36/3.9 and 34/3.7 coming from ANY UG are exceptionally great.<br>
In regard to granting as interview, it depends on school practices. There were 2 schools (out of 8 that D. has applied) that did not grant her an interview. One at least was honest to send almost immediate rejection right after receiving an application fee (which is common for this school), the second one completely ignorred D’s application, no peep from them. D. was not affected anyhow by these, did not bother her a bit.</p>