@jugulator20 I dont believe the LizzyM formula is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It provides an instant number for people to understand where they stand in the pecking order (I have been reading SDN threads for 2015 applicants and it seems to follow the order of 79+ is kings, 74+ is random unless you have a hook and 70- is destined for state based on some the IIs for some top tier schools).
What will be a big deal is how the percentiles are being determined without any concrete data for the first few rounds of test taking. I don’t believe for a minute that they have any real data at the moment for the brand new section irrespective of what they have gotten back from their trial sections.
ponypal: as med students are faced frequently with regular and standardized testing, adcoms look at GPAs and MCATs as to whether applicant can cut it. As I understand it, adcoms don’t tend to think that a high MCAT can overcome a low GPA or vice versa. They tend to prefer GPAs/MCAT to tell same story about applicant. D stumbled in some chem courses which IMO if merely combined with other minimal premed reqs maybe, might give an adcom pause. But here “she did take advanced science classes beyond the med school requirements. Biochem, Human Anatomy, Physiology, neurobiology, genetics, plant structure, cell biology, all with an average of 3.9 or so.” So it just further supports my opinion that D is a very good student with a monster MCAT and adcoms will conclude she can cut it. So moving past the question of competency, becomes questions of things like motivation, people skills, can she articulate she fits in with school’s mission, etc which show up in LORs, PS, secondaries, and interviews. I still think D will garner multiple interview offers.
texaspg: I’m truly not trying to be sarcastic, but AAMC’s numbers are not being pulled out of hat. I struggle to think that AAMC doesn’t believe they have adequate data. Could you provide info or link to website that explains how AAMC has or will get data? I’m just an inquisitive person. Thanks.
It’s my understanding that AAMC has been collecting data thru experimental sections for over a year.** AAMC has been developing a bank of test questions and using feedback from the earlier administrations of the experimental section results to further modify and refine the questions. Rinse. Repeat. Once a stable collection of data items is developed then similar questions are written. The data banks will contain items of different relative difficulties. Which is why some testers have complained of “impossible” questions–part of the test development protocol requires ‘testing to destruction’–or finding a point where 100% of testers fail. Since the test developers have a pretty good idea of what students who have taken biochem ought to know based upon input from actual college biochem profs, they then need to find how far to push those questions w/r/t difficulty. I don’t think most of the student who were complaining about the difficulty of the experimental section understand that.
Once the initial offering of the 2015MCAT occurs, the psychometricians will go to work using all results from the first 45 days of testing to refine the currently existing statistical model for the range of scores and percentile rankings. Tentative data models based upon the performance of test-takers of the experimental sections have already been developed and the early actual test data will be used to refine that model.
Once, many years ago I took some upper level grad classes in educational testing methodology from a prof who designed exams for ETS. It’s pretty well understood science with its own protocols and built in fail-safes. BTW, that ed prof wrote the hardest multiple choice exams I’ve ever taken in my life. If you didn’t know the answers cold–you did very poorly on his exams. You had no chance of BS-ing your way through. There’s a whole science on how to write ‘distractors’–which are answers that superficially appear to look correct, but actually aren’t. There’s even a statistical model on where to place the correct answer in a list of 5 possible answers to maximize the number of people who get it wrong.
**Note that it’s also possible that AMCAS has been including the odd experimental question or 12 on MCAT exams for much longer than just the past year. (NBME includes non-scored experimental questions on every USMLE taken so the precedent for that exists.) The fact that AMCAS has already done correlation studies on the behavior section of the 2015 MCAT and found it’s predictive suggests that this is something they may likely have done.
I understand this part very well. I can even see that working quite well for biochemistry over that period.
What I question is whether they have enough real data for psychology and sociology and the accuracy of it. The reason is that not a large percentage of kids who are taking MCAT would have taken any classes in these subjects. Several of the kids who I know took MCAT recently, scored between 34 and 42 and not a single one of them took sociology, and a few have taken psychology.
I feel that AAMC knows what they are doing, but texaspg raises an interesting point. D took Sociology, but not Psychology. She took Biochemistry after she was finished with the MCAT. She took the MCAT 3 times (NOT optimal!), and did the trial section each time. She made an honest effort, but the section was last and she was tired. I think she scored around 50%. The Amazon gift card was a big motivator to do the section.
Son took psychology and biochem before MCATs. He unfortunately didn’t do experimental section. He said that he was exhausted after long test. I am curious how he would of done since he just finished his Biochem course right before and did well in it. I am glad that he doesn’t have to worry about taking the new MCATs though. I feel bad for the kids taking it in April and waiting for the result until mid June and having no idea on how they did.
My guess is that behavior questions were piloted within the verbal section. The behavior questions aren’t overtly about specific sociological or psychological topics but are more of an analysis of why people behave as they do. Depending on the reading passage offered, testers may not have needed an particular background in soc or psych to be able to reach the correct conclusions. Just a gestalt of the underlying principle. The genetics and basic neuroscience behavioral questions could have ended up in the biology sections.
I don’t know–it’s speculation on my part driven by the fact that AMCAS already has correlation studies for 2015 MCAT topics and med school coursework. (I believe Goro said neuroscience, epidemiology and psychiatry–which are not first semester MS1 topics. Plus the data was presented to adcomms this past summer. In order to get this kind of data, piloting of questions has to have been going on for more than just last year.)
D2 took the biochem experimental section since she had taken biochem (it’s required for our state med school) and had been a biochem TA. She thought that many of the questions were… “strangely worded” I believe was her exact quote.
And the gift card was an inducement for her too.
RE: MCAT being a long test-- just wait until your kiddos take the USMLEs.
Yes, USMLEs are very very long and hard. MCAT is not any close. I think that it was 4 hours when D. took MCAT. Step 1 is 8 hrs and Step 2 is 9 hrs. But there is NO VERBAL in USMLEs, thank goodness!!! for all of you slower readers, finally, you can fully rely on your hard preparation. One who does not care about business / economy or international news, as bad as it may sound, you can fianlly have a sigh of relief (if you can call studying for 14 hrs / day for about 7 weeks a reief)
It is my understanding with the new MCAT that the first three dates (the two April and lone May date) scores will be delayed so that they can calibrate the scores and percentiles. So if the scores are lower or higher than expected they will still be able to give a score that gives an accurate percentile ranking. Also, so many of the test takers have known from the start of college that psych and soc were to be on the new exam, so those taking the new MCAT will be more familiar with those sections.
Of course, I may just be optimistic as DS will be taking the test in May, without the benefit of multiple options for practice materials and reliable assessment tools.
D is taking the MCAT on Friday in NOLA. It is still the old test. She has taken a couple of practice tests and a lot of studying. She then is running the Mardi Gras marathon on Sunday. Here’s hoping that the training she has been doing has been a good stress reliever for the studying that she has been doing and that the hard work pays off for both endeavors.
Pre-med committees vary in what types and how many LORs they require in order to write the committee letter. Usually an applicant will need to provide at a minimum 2 science & 1 non-science letters to the committee.
Please be aware that every medical school has different letter requirements. Some strongly prefer committee letters; some want a committee letter plus additional letters; some specify individual letters.
Your best bet to buy access to MSAR and then to double check with admission site of individual med schools for letter requirements.
Just looked at my sons premed site and it says that the earliest the committee will release the letter of recommendation is August 1st. How does that affect the application process? Isn’t this kind of late?
S should make sure his application has been submitted and verified early as med schools won’t begin to review his folder until application is complete. Verification can take up to 6 weeks. Getting LORs/committee letter in early August is not late. S should be just fine. Good luck.
As long as your S gets everything he can done as early as possible, his August committee letter won’t make him that late. It will still be “on time” when it arrives and makes his app complete. I think it is ridiculous that schools do this to their students who are applying though. They should get their work done in the spring if they are off all summer. D’s school doesn’t have a committee so she didn’t have to worry about that— however, I do think schools with committees can definitely help spin this committee letter much more so than a bunch of individual letters of rec.