21 applications! Are we crazy !?!

Parents Forum
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<p>Op I wish you lots of good choices. </p>

<p>DD only applied to 4 colleges and got into 4 colleges. 3 out of 4 gave her merit aid. I was wrong to tell dd that I was only going to pay the cost to go to state colleges because she then only applied to our state colleges. She didn’t have to even pay for three of the four application fees. There were many colleges that offered her free applications and it would have been interesting to see what they had to offer. She is very happy where she landed but I will know better for the next go round. With twins, I am going to have them cast a wider net.</p>

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<p>Scribbulus: I’m sorry to hear of your family’s difficulties. </p>

<p>baywood: I apologize if I seemed harsh in my earlier questions about your true identity! I always try to get a sense of who’s posing the original question before I begin dispensing some of my VAST wisdom ;). </p>

<p>momofthreeboys: Great post (#54). I wonder if any college search consultants use the Kepner Tregoe decision analysis method? (I’d never heard of Kepner Tregoe so I googled it; now I know a half cent’s worth but enough to think packaging this method for the likes of us could be your million dollar idea. You’re welcome.)</p>

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<p>“IOW, if you did your research ahead of application time, you’d pretty much know where you like, where you’d get in and approximate FA.”</p>

<p>limabeans, in case you’ve missed the conversations over in the Financial Aid Forum, one thing is perfectly clear: There is no way to “pretty much know” a financial aid package unless the college/university publishes right on its website the specific requirements for $X in guaranteed merit-based aid. Financial aid results are all over the place. Student A and Student B look exactly alike to us, but A gets massive aid at College C while B doesn’t get a cent and B gets massive aid at College D while A doesn’t get a cent. Factoring in that each family has its own concept of what qualifies as “enough” aid given their own particular situation, Family A might still find the not a cent offer from College D is best for Student A.</p>

<p>Some families do indeed need to cast very wide nets.</p>

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<p>When D1 was applying, there were a handful of “might as well” and “why not” where she applied to. They turned out to be a waste of time because she would never have attended some, and some were very high reaches like HYPS. The down side we found was once she applied to some of those schools there was some sort of attachment and it was hard to take those rejections. </p>

<p>We could have paid for D1 to go anywhere, so we didn’t have finance constraint. If we did, I don’t think we would have let D1 apply to any school we couldn’t afford to pay. As in OP’s example, why let her son apply to need based schools if they couldn’t qualify and they needed merit aid. It’ll be very hard if OP’s son were to get accepted at one of those Ivies and OP is going to have to say no. Unlike the TV show, Parenthoold, at the end of 60 min the father was able to say, “Honey, you will be able to go to Cornell. You have worked so hard. We will do whatever necessary to make it happen.” Hug, hug, D with a big smile and Dad with a wince.</p>

<p>With D2 we were more targeted. Her list didn’t have any school she wouldn’t have been happy to attend. We took out some true safeties because she knew she wouldn’t be happy to attend. She had some good EAs on the list. She also didn’t include some trophy schools because she knew they weren’t good fit for her.</p>

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<p>momofthreeboys-</p>

<p>I agree that it makes no sense to apply to colleges that you have no intention of attending. There were plenty of colleges that sent my daughter emails waiving the application fee, etc., that we knew would easily accept her, but she did not apply to any of them and only applied to colleges she would be happy to attend.</p>

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<p>“The down side we found was once she applied to some of those schools there was some sort of attachment and it was hard to take those rejections.”</p>

<p>This is a concern that I have about applying to so many colleges. Before beginning the process I had more than one conversation with my daughter about the fact that she will likely receive a number of rejections and that they will be hard to accept. She has assured me that she understands and can deal with it. Knowing my daughter I think she is right, but we will still do our best and do what we can to soften the blows.</p>

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<p>scribbulus, I am so sorry about what happened to your husband. I hope you are hanging on and making it through this tragedy. It sounds like you are going above and beyond to help your family.</p>

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<p>baywood,</p>

<p>April could be a tough month…… Prestige (high ranking) vs. money</p>

<p>If he get into a prestige school, and his peers with lower stats get into the same school and decide to enroll it, Can he still like to take merit money and go to lower tier school? Peer pressure has big impact on teenagers. </p>

<p>best luck to your son.</p>

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<p>OP, here. Interesting posts, about half sympathetic to our “strategy,” half disagreeing or misunderstanding our situation. Our son’s a national merit finalist, and so our options are different than most. </p>

<p>Let’s say I was trying to buy a house, and looked at 21 houses all with list prices of $220,000 (4 years of $55,000 tuition). But could only find the “real” prices by filling out a multi-page application and paying $100. We’d find that some of those houses really cost almost nothing, some $30,000, $60,000, $100,000, and some really are $220,000. A crazy free market system, but for us well worth the effort and money to flip over the tag to see the real prices.</p>

<p>At Michigan State, he was offered in-state tuition (we’re out of state), plus free room and board, plus a couple thousand a year to work with a professor. It would all add up to a cost of about $7500/year for a solid education in its Honors program. At Case Western, more than a 50% discount with a merit offer of $30,000 a year. At three small liberal arts schools, he’s in the running for full rides (which would necessitate an “interview” visit in March. </p>

<p>Should we have prevented him from even applying to financially prohibitive schools, his “target” schools like Chicago and Cornell? Perhaps, but it’s hard amidst pressure from relatives and GCs and peers (“Why aren’t you applying to X?!”) If he goes to a lower prestige school, I think it will make him feel good to say, “I also got accepted at Cornell, but I’m going to X because I got an amazing scholarship there.” </p>

<p>Although we haven’t handled things perfectly, I think the crazy economics involved make our strategy logical, in light of our child’s willingness to go almost anywhere for a good education with no debt. He won’t necessarily go to the best deal: all houses are not alike. But the big list will be reduced by 2/3 based on “real” pricing. For us, there is not a $200,000 difference between Michigan State and Univ. of Michigan.</p>

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<p>*If he goes to a lower prestige school, I think it will make him feel good to say, “I also got accepted at Cornell, but I’m going to X because I got an amazing scholarship there.” *</p>

<p>Interesting.
“I know my parents don’t have the money to send me to this school, even though we don’t qualify for aid, but I am going to apply anyway cause the thought that I got accepted will keep me warm during those long winter nights at MSU.”</p>

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<p>"Perhaps Count, but an applicant that applies with no real intent of attending is taking time away from other kids by virtue of consuming an admissions person’s time and effort in reviewing the app, is consuming the high school offices time in sending transcripts and consuming their own time. Applying to random colleges where an applicant isn’t seriously considering is a rather self absorbed activity and in my opinion shows a lack of critical thinking skills or a kid who could use some stronger mentoring. "</p>

<p>The universities built this system. It is a matching system. The applicant has almost not power in this relationship. Universities have a lot. The dominant strategy is for the applicants to cast a wide net. If universities were trully concerned with this they would institute a different approach. I am tired of seeing the “apply now” spam. I am also tired of seeing the “we are here to help you”, but when you call nobody answers. It is such a random and arbitrary system that some times I think the best is for the applicant to hire a secretary and mail as many apps as possible. The same way the colleges buy lists and send as much spam as possible.</p>

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<p>Baywood-
Older son took a full merit award at Miami (with lots of perks) over some other top schools with no merit. Had lots of great perks given to him (as a scholar). No regrets, no loans!! We are now paying for grad school (three year program) at a school he also rec’d very good merit. He will graduate debt free… and we are not broke sending him and younger son to college. Not a bad thing! (Perks at MSU were also very good and worth considering. He should be proud if he attends.) (My son is amazed at his peers that attended schools beyond their financial means and have big undergrad debt. Another, close friend regrets attending Georgetown (no merit from them as expected) as he knows he could have gotten a quality education elsewhere (and saved his parents lots and lots of money). </p>

<p>Let us know how this works out for you/son.</p>

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<p>One thing that you might consider to help sort through all of this and pare down is the big/small question. Using your example of Michigan State as an example…there roughly 45,000 students at Michigan State. That is a very different vibe than a small liberal arts college with less than 5,000. You may very well be blessed with a kid that is happy no matter where, but many kids do have “reactions” to their surroundings and this is a very easy criteria to establish after a college visit or two or three.</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone misunderstands your situation. Everyone with a student applying is going through the same sort, determining the sort criteria and making decisions. Clearly we are hearing finances are your primary criteria and to a certain extent you have voiced some concern surrounding prestige as a criteria and will have to determine if that is another true criteria for your son. Absolutely have your son pick decision criteria and you’ll have a positive outcome next year.</p>

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<p>Baywood,</p>

<p>So let’s agree that the number of schools a kid should apply to is a fluid concept. Reasonable people differ. Your son is in the enviable position of being an NMF. He has more options than others. Whence comes all the angst? Well, there’s the question of what exactly he’s looking for; problem solved with your strategy of applying to a broad range of schools. You seem also to want to find the very best deal possible. That’s fine, but maybe you could alleviate the “crazies you get from too much choice” (I call it a good day when I can quote Joni Mitchell on CC) by setting a threshold for the amount of money you would be willing to spend, high EFC notwithstanding. Then you say to son of Baywood: “We will give you up to $10,000 or $15,000 or $20,000 a year” (or whatever works for you). “Come April, you need to sort out where we should spend that money.” People have asked how he might answer those who wonder why he didn’t choose the most prestigious option (if his choice would raise that question). Who cares? Let 'em ask. He’ll answer that he made a choice that worked for him. Period and end of discussion.</p>

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<p>

See? It seems to me that this is why he applied to these schools, which has nothing to do with actually attending. And that’s totally wrong. It also sounds as if he already got into MSU. He couldn’t possibly go to more than one college. It’s a numbers game only because folks like you apply to 21 colleges!</p>

<p>And if you were actually buying houses, I can bet you wouldn’t sign up to purchase 21 houses. But I regress. You/he applied to college. Blame FA options all you want, (note at MSU: It would all add up to a cost of about $7500/year for a solid education in its Honors program) it’s because you wanted to see where he’d get in.</p>

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<p>The thing is, everyone has an opinion. My D is finished with all her applications. She is done. Still, when people ask her where she’s thinking of going to college, people will say, "Kalamazoo? Where’s that? Why didn’t you apply to ________<strong><em>, with </em></strong> standing for the name of any number of terrific schools the person in question has heard of or attended, or where his sister or his doctor or his neighbor’s kid went. You get the point. Best case scenario when people offer advice is that they have something meaningful to offer that you can put in the hopper. Worst case, they’re buttinskis who are offering their opinions in spite of being unburdened by data. There are plenty of great options for all kids. In your son’s case, people are assuming that because he is an NMF there are prestigious options within reach. They’re right. But that’s just the start of it. Unless you think you might be able to swing the cost, applying somewhere that you know is going to be “financially prohibitive” for your family seems a waste of time (sounds like water under the bridge, though). One of my good friend’s kids applied to U. of C. I can’t imagine completing that particular application just so you could say you got in!</p>

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<p>I am a bad mom- I didn’t let my D apply to schools that were way out of our budget.
Cause I didn’t want to hear this from another thread.
I got into the school I really really wanted to go to, but I couldn’t go because I couldn’t afford it.</p>

<p>I thought it was better for those choices to be off the table from the get go: rather than have to remind her she couldn’t go there ,at a time when the focus should be on the choices she * does * have.</p>

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<p>Yes, emeraldkity4, you are a bad mom. We’re here to help. </p>

<p>But, seriously. I am dumbfounded when I hear about kids applying to schools that are financially out of reach. Stipulating that it isn’t always possible to know, there are ample data sources, including schools’ own common data sets, that make it possible to determine that some schools are simply not options financially, unless you are willing to assume substantial debt. And don’t get me started on the families where the Ps and the kid never even have the conversation! (Clearly not what’s going on in the OP’s case. I’m just gearing up for April and the inevitable woe-is-me threads on the financial aid forum.)</p>

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<p>It also depends on the kid’s plan after undergraduate. Will he plan to go to med, law school? then it’s better saving money on undergraduate. If he wants to be a PhD student, he usually can find a TA/RA job to support himself when he is in graduate school.</p>

<p>Communication is the key. talk to the kids what kind of budgets they can have. They are the person who say the final words about their future plan, we, the parents can do is to respect their decision.</p>

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<p>To everyone saying that 21 schools means research wasn’t done: Thousands of schools exist in the country alone, not to mention those in other countries. There are hundreds of absolutely great schools. So doing research could definitely yield 21 schools that are excellent schools, and a good fit for the kid academically, socially, and financially. I applied to about 17, all of which I love and would be happy to go to (safeties included). But there were about 5 others that definitely could have been on the same list, but I felt my list was large enough and cut it off there. So many posters here on CC criticize people who only look at the Ivies and tippy-top schools, lecturing them about how there are so many possibilities to explore. Is it so hard to imagine that a kid could be happy at 21 different schools? With the possibilities out there, it doesn’t seem so impossible…</p>