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<p>For some of us parents who are math / statistically challenged, doesn’t 0.483 mean a moderate correlation i.e. about 25% of the score is intelligence/ 75% hard work? So does this mean that a student with average intelligence is unlikely to earn a SAT score above ~ 2040 regardless of how hard he works? Thanks.</p>
<p>The SAT actually doesnt correlate with IQ or freshman grades or future job preformance. The fact is that there is no way a four hour test can predict with any level of accuracy your future sucess</p>
<p>I think that Richard Feynman’s tested IQ was 124. It might have been 125. I am not sure about the reliability of the online IQ test that you took. I would suggest that you not worry about IQ test scores, and instead spend time reading about your field of choice and solving problems.</p>
<p>I’ve taught a lot of college and high school students with similar fears. I think a better measure than any single test would be to get into a college where your teachers and peers challenge you, take classes in physics, attend professor office hours, get involved with their projects if possible, and then have actual professionals in the field you are considering give you honest feedback about whether it’s realistic for you to pursue this passion. You want a physicist who has made his living off of his intellectual work to give you that kind of feedback, not a multiple choice test (and I’m speaking here as someone who enjoys taking and tutoring standardized tests). You’ll also want to take into account the personality types of your instructors during this process; e.g., some are intimidated by their own students and can be discouraging even when it’s not warranted.</p>
<p>Besides, the notion of “raw intelligence” is a tricky thing–some tests privilege spontaneous creativity (seriously!), divergent/emergent thinking, processing speed, arithmetic computation, pattern finding, and a massive host of other things–and an Internet IQ test cannot even claim to have statistical validity even with these categories. Obviously, you can’t just let go of anxieties at will, but hopefully as you dive more into the work you love and as you cultivate your mental gifts, you’ll leave those IQ-related worries behind!</p>
<p>You want to be a scientist? Then, please, look at the methodology of IQ testing. You can read lots of manuscripts online that discuss pro and con of the methodology (scientific journals). </p>
<p>I am not worried about your IQ test. I worry that you put so much emphasis on the importance of an IQ test.</p>
<p>The IQ testings such as the WAIS was invented by psychologists for the the purpose of helping people with lower than average IQs ( average being exactly 100 ) . That is, there is a big difference between an IQ of 75 ( you could perhaps live independently ) and 55 ( you probably need to live in a group home for the rest of your life ). It’s really meant for families/parents to plan for the future of their kids, those who do not have the mental capacity to plan for themselves.</p>
<p>Above 100, and things get less defined, because the tests were never meant to do that accurately. At exactly 100, you can do MOST THINGS ; Above 115, you can do EVERYTHING ( it doesn’t mean you won’t struggle, but you have the mental capacity to accomplish the task ). </p>
<p>If you think that 122 is not a good score for a theoretical physicist, I would put that down to bad research on your part. Richard Feynmann was exactly 122, and he won the Nobel Prize. </p>
<p>I’m going into Theoretical Astrophysics ( similar to theoretical physics ) , and my iq is 119.</p>
<p>IQ tests, particularly in the era when Feynman took them, tend to emphasize vocabulary as a sign of intellect. For mathematicians/physicists/engineers, the correlation is likely to be fairly weak, particularly if the tests are taken in childhood. Feynman mentions in one of the autobiographical collections of anecdotes that he once went into the New York Public Library and asked for a “map of the cat.” He meant an anatomical drawing. However, I’d surmise that his vocabulary was not especially large when he was a child. He also mentioned that when he started to study solid geometry, he had difficulty with it, because he did not understand how the two dimensional drawings were supposed to represent three-dimensional objects. As I recall his saying, it took some time for this to “click” with him–at any rate, longer than an IQ test allows for figuring out things like rotations of 3D objects, represented in 2D. I’d hypothesize that these two factors account for Feynman’s measured IQ. He probably blew the top off the test in other areas.</p>
<p>I say, put the IQ discussion into the ‘ongoing discussion’ basket and give physics a try. You’ll likely know by the time you take quantum mechanics if it’s for you or not.</p>
<p>Think of physics as the Liberal Arts major of the STEM world. With a degree in physics (or even just 2-3 years of classes), you can fairly easily move to many other related fields – ideally one where you have some form of natural, comparative advantage.</p>
<p>Physics classes help to train your brain how to think. As such, it is not surprising that physics majors regularly rank either #1 or #2 in terms their average score on the LSAT. Combine a generic physics degree with some computational physics classes and you will be well equipped to make your mark in a variety of professions of value to society.</p>
It’s entirely possible for there to be a large discrepancy between IQ and SAT scores. I know someone with a professionally tested IQ of 135 and an SAT score in the 1500s on the 2400 scale. I don’t see why it can’t go both ways.
The research carried out by Frey and Detterman is only ONE study! The studies correlating SAT/ACT and IQ are scarce and limited. Also that study analyzed data from the 1979 National Longitudinal Survey of Youth so it used the pre-1994 test which was much more like a group-intelligence test at the time. Since then and 2005 the SAT has undergone some considerable changes to content. It is much more like an achievement test now and assesses one’s grammar skills and vocabulary, reading comprehension under strict time limits, mathematical problem solving under time pressure, and mastery of math skills covered from algebra I, geometry, and algebra II. Now while there is still some contribution of intelligence to test scores it is doubtful that the correlation is as high as .86 (corrected for non-linearity) for the 2005 revised test. It still takes someone intelligent to get a perfect score of course, but just because someone gets an average score doesn’t mean they’re not intelligent. There’s a good number of “gifted” students who have slower processing speeds that can hurt them on these tests. Clinically administered IQ tests are a lot more flexible on time in a lot of subtests they administer because IQ or intelligence or however you want to define it is not all about speed. Also the ASVAB correlates with other measures of IQ around .7 which is substantial but not enough to establish cross-validity!
To become eminent in a field like physics you need intelligence, competence, creativity, and a passion!
You can have a high IQ and fairly low scores. My brother had a 138 IQ, and a 1900-ish on the SAT. His ACT was pretty bad too, below 27. Given, he attends a good school (UNC Chapel Hill) and is doing pretty well. If you speak with him, it is very obvious that he is very intelligent.
His low scores should also be coupled with his work ethic. Throughout high school he hated to do anything academic, never studied for anything, and thought that he should put his time into more productive aspects of life. He would volunteer at so many different places, and his ECs are at the level of a student who you would think would attend an Ivy League like institution. He didn’t do them to build up his resume, he did them because he was motivated by the thought of being productive.
A high IQ can get you to the 1900-2000 mark of the SAT, but I do believe it takes hard work and practice from there if you want to achieve a 2200+.
SAT Scores can often go hand in hand. But not always. Obviously to get an elite score of 2300+ Some intelligence is required. But I think anybody with average intelligence (Iq:100) can get 2000 or higher if they are given every chance to succeed.
A really bright motivated student named Nick has an IQ of 140. Nick is ranked #1 out of 400 in his high school class at a fairly competitive public high school. His passion is math and science but he is also a gifted writer and a well above average reader. He scores a 221 on his PSAT in October on his Junior year. After about 3 months of prepping for the SAT, going over some Direct Hits vocab. Maybe learning some grammar rules he hadn’t seen in a few years he was ready try and ACE the SAT. He takes his SAT in March and two and a half weeks later he is celebrating his perfect 2400. A year later he would arrive to start his 4 years of Undergrad at Princeton. He would then go to Harvard Medical School and become a very successful Neurosurgeon.
A really not bright student named Justin has an IQ of 93. Any motivation he has for school stems from his parents taking his Xbox away if he doesn’t get at least a 3.0 GPA. His class rank is about 195 out of 400 at an average high school. He is in his Junior year barely passing core Algebra II. His grasp of the English Language is just above that of a hillbillies and probably doesn’t know either definition of the word colon. On a Wednesday night in March his parents told him that he is to take the SAT this Saturday. Justin is not happy because he was planning to lock himself in his room all day Saturday to play COD and down countless Monsters. Now he has to get up early to take some stupid test that doesn’t mean anything. Justin see’s that his essay prompt is about politics and he mixes up Governor for Government. His first sentence in the essay in a run on sentence. Justin is familiar with most of the math material. He is pretty bad at math though. He was most confident about his answer to an average speed answer at the end of a math section though. He couldn’t believe they would make a question that easy. On his critical reading he had seen about half of those vocab words before. The passage based reading questions was probably his strongest area on the entire test. He was able to find a few of the answers in the passages and the time limit saved him from answering the harder questions wrong. The writing section was probably his worse because the way Justin talks and writes is the way the CB likes to word its most obviously wrong answers. Two weeks later Justin’s mom is mortified to see that her son scored a 1360 on his SAT. Justin thinks it is lucky because if you split up that number you get Xbox 1 and Xbox 360. He would average about seven minimum wage jobs a year. He got about as many welfare checks as he did paychecks.
Another student only somewhat smarter than Justin has an IQ of 100. We will call her Amy. Amy’s daddy is an executive producer for a TV show. Amy has gotten through school with fairly good grades because of tutors and teachers that hold her hand. She get’s A’s in college prep classes and B’s in AP Classes. Amy’s daddy tells her the summer between her sophomore and junior year that she will be taking a very expensive SAT prep class. Amy is at first very mad because she was planning to spend the summer at her rich boyfriends summer home in Santa Monica. Her dad told her that if she could score above a 2000 that he would buy her a brand new Porsche in any color she liked. (Pink) Amy started to take this prep class very seriously. She had only completed Algebra II/Trig and was only in Pre Calc by the time she had taken the SAT but made sure she has basic Algebra and Geometry nailed as she prepped for the class. She was always a decent reader and writer. Her prep class made use of Direct Hits and Amy made sure she learned as much of the vocab as possible. Amy took her SAT in November of her Junior year. She ended up scoring a 2060, just enough for her new Porsche. Her SAT Score, along with her decent grades and Cheer Leading got her into USC. (Her dad had a connection). Amy would keep this Porsche and would drive to USC with it from her personal condo that her dad bought her for surviving freshman year of college. Amy would decide after $240,000 spent on college that she wanted to be a hair dresser. She would get her own shop right on Wilshire Boulevard and would marry the starting Center for the LA Lakers.
This student is just as smart as nick. We will call him Brian. Brian actually tested higher on the IQ test than Nick did. Brian scored a 146. Brian grew up in a trailer park in Tuscon. He never knew his dad and his mom worked as a waitress at the local Denny’s. He also had 4 younger half siblings he had to take care of. He came through a pretty bad school district but did better than average. He got mostly A’s but his school only offered a couple of AP Classes. (AP US History and AP Composition) He was very gifted at math but there was no accelerated math track at his school so he was a junior in Algebra II/Trig. His English teacher told him that he should consider going to college. (The yearly average number of students going to a four year straight out of high school at this particular school could be counted on one hand) He wasn’t even given a blue book but rather a booklet of some practice SAT questions. Brian went over this booklet for a few days before the test. When test day arrived Brian realized that the test booklet did not provide near enough space for him to fit his essay. He had barely begun to talk about his first example when he ran out of room. He tried to fix this as much as he could but he only had 6 minutes left at this point. His essay ended up being very poor. Brian knew much of the vocabulary but would get mixed up on words with similar meanings. He also over thought a handful of passage based reading questions causing him to pick wrong answers. On the grammar he did good for the most part. The improving sentences was what hurt him the most. He had know idea what the SAT looked for as far as style went. This caused him to miss a lot of the questions. The math he felt like he knew how to do everything on, but he also was unaware that the SAT math literally went out of it’s way to ensure that you made stupid mistakes. This caused him to make several careless mistakes along the way. A few weeks later Brian got his score report back and he had scored 1880. Brian would go to JC but would end up transferring to UC Santa Barbara. He had to take out Student Loans to pay for undergrad. He would have to take out even more for when he did his Post Grad at Cal Tech. He would be able to pay them back fairly easily when he started making 6 digits right after getting his masters at Cal Tech.
It is important to be familiar with the test format such as you might get with a practice test, but lots of students achieve higher scores without any more practice than that. Maybe the “hard work” comes with your regular coursework.
@JustOneDad High IQ and good grades don’t even go hand in hand. A person can have an IQ of 170 and be illiterate.
IQ is irrelevant to SAT scores. SAT scores are irrelevant to IQ. IQ in general is just pretty irrelevant - yes, it’s a measure of your ‘intellectual potential’, but 1) potential means absolutely nothing if you don’t work hard yourself and make something out of it, 2) I have seen many, many hardworking peers outpace the more ‘naturally smart’ ones who tend to laze around more, and 3) IQ tests are inherently faulty and cannot 100% accurately measure IQ anyway. You /can/ train for IQ tests, which is why (where I’m from at least), Mensa only allows 2 tries at the test, at least 1 year apart.
And I’m not bitter or anything, I scored over 160 on the official Mensa IQ test with no preparation or anything, and I took only because it happened to be free (as I’m a student) and I was curious. On the other hand, I studied 3 months for my first try at the SATs, scored a low 2100+, studied smarter one year later, and scored 2300+ for my second try.
Stop putting IQ on a pedestal, and I think everyone already knows that SATs is just a game you need to study and beat. True success, be it in life or any academic field, relies on many significantly more important factors, such as work ethic and passion.