<p>Thank you for all the insights. They confirm most of my suspicions. Basically, if he wants engineering, then go to a place that starts engineering/design right away. And if he dislikes it- worst case he transfers. I just talked with a 21 year old 3+2 student, and he was frustrated that he did not get into the meat of engineering until Junior year…enough time to get distracted. Which he has been… Or, select from the Bucknell, Lehigh. Lafayette, etal. that have BOTH as to limit the damage of changing majors and graduating ASAP. </p>
<p>I asked for advantages; and appreciate the usually honest CC viewpoints - priceless!</p>
<p>“Perhaps internal transfers from Columbia College or General Studies to SEAS?”</p>
<p>It was a question and an answer. If someone dug deep, the department can figure it all out. All they are saying is that they add more people along the way and so it would look like X were admitted but X+x graduated, making the numbers look odd unless every person is accounted for in that equation.</p>
<p>Frankly, the answer says we don’t care to tell you or we don’t care to break it down.</p>
<p>I think this is a YMMV depending on student. My '50s era 3/2 Columbia SEAS alum uncle said it was good for him as it allowed him to ease into undergrad and gain academic confidence so he wasn’t as overwhelmed with engineering core/engineering requirements from freshman year onwards. By the time he did his last 2 years at Columbia SEAS, it was manageable and he graduated. </p>
<p>Several LAC classmates who successfully completed its 3/2 program with WUSTL, Case, or Columbia SEAS said the same thing or enjoyed having experienced college life on 2 different campuses and being a part of 2 alum networks.</p>
<p>But it sounds like it can be difficult to transfer out of engineering at Columbia. Seems like a reason to consider other schools that are more flexible.</p>
<p>There are many schools that don’t require you to declare a major early on but then many state schools and several private schools with specific department admissions make it much harder to change. So anyone needing flexibility should choose the college which provides an open major admission.</p>
<p>Or at least easy change into the majors you are interested in.</p>
<p>In some cases, one of the majors of interest may be difficult to change into, but the others are not. In the case, it would be a good idea to apply for the difficult major, since changing later would be easier than the other way around. But applying for the difficult major would increase the risk of not getting admitted to the school (although some schools may admit you to an alternate major or undeclared).</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, judging from your username, you know something about Berkeley. I read somewhere that it can be hard to transfer out of Engineering to Letters & Science. Do you know if there is any truth to that?</p>
<p>I would think it is harder to transfer into Engineering at UCB as one of the nations most elite programs but I suspect sciences is probably hard too.</p>
<p>Only a few L&S majors are capped, meaning that they require a higher than 2.0 GPA or C grades in prerequisites to declare (the ones with the red # next to them):</p>
<p>Of the science majors, only computer science, operations research and management science, and public health are capped (computer science only recently became capped; the red # is missing on the L&S page).</p>
<p>The stock advice the GC at our kids’ HS gave kids who are good at math and science and had ANY potential interest in engineering was to apply to the U, declaring engineering because generally it was much easier to transfer out and still graduate in 4 years than trying to transfer IN and graduate in 4 years (if you’re allowed in at all if you don’t start as a freshman). Many of the kids from the HS took his advice and many stayed in engineering, though many chose to apply to Us that had other fields they could switch to or double-major in other fields that might have nothing to do with math, science and engineering.</p>
<p>While I dont have stats for you, I believe that it is true that not many who plan to do the 3+2 end up doing it. Agree with those above who said that there are many opportunities to attend small schools and get an engineering degree. They may or may not be the best choice or are best known for their engineering (eg Swarthmore, Tufts, Dartmouth, Princeton) but they are great schools and your child will get a f\great education. Swat has a small engineering program and is planning an upgrade of their facilities. </p>
<p>My s’s both have engineering degrees from small-midsized schools (not tech schools) and both finished in 4 years. Good luck to you and your son!</p>
<p>I wonder how much of this is due to the inherent flexibility the 3/2 program allows for students who change their mind and not necessarily an indictment of it?</p>
<p>The 3-2 program sets up two very hard years in the engineering school. There isn’t room to space out engineering courses or align them with related science/math corequisites. And, there is little time/space to explore different specializations within the major. I am also concerned that the 2-year intensive seems to offer less lab exposure. YMMV.</p>
<p>EDIT:
How are 3-2 students able to reach an informed decision about engineering when they don’t even take their first engineering course until the fourth year of the program?</p>
<p>We have a friend that has done very well over the past 30 with his 3-2 credentials. But for DS we determined there was little advantage for him. I investigated 3-2 based on his liking the hs IB program, but we quickly decided there was not enough value add to justify the extra time and money and hassles. </p>
<p>For those interested in 3-2, I think it works best when when the schools are near each other (who wants to move away from college pals after 3 years?) and there is guaranteed transfer.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind-- 20 years ago the large schools did not have the same type of Honors Programs many now have. Some of those Honors programs can make a large school smaller.</p>
<p>Haverford has a new 4+1 program. Many state they don’t want to leave the LAC and instead wish to graduate with their class, so the 4 + 1 addresses that issue.</p>
<p>After much consideration, my son decided a 3 - 2 was not for him. He would rather dig into the meat of the Engineering courses earlier. In the end, it really came down to money and the 3-2 was just not in our budget.</p>
<p>The School of Engineering and special interest floors and/or dorms can also make a larger school have a “smaller and cozier” feel. My S in engineering and D in cinema both felt that their little school within the large U was the perfect place for them.</p>
<p>I think a schools with a solid engineering program that has a seamless transition between engineering and any other major is a good option for this student. The ones I know of are MIT, Johns Hopkins, Rice, and University of Rochester. Rochester in particular is very LAC like.</p>