<p>We were in the same boat with really high grades (4.2 weighted, full IB) and somewhat disappointing scores. Like everyone says…scores in the 500’s aren’t bad but it is an issue if there is a big disparity in the scores compared to the grades/curriculum. My D, also a junior, tried the ACT and only did much better on the math section…she just is slow and steady and really bad with the tricks on the SAT. The ACT seems better for some students but for others, not really a big difference.</p>
<p>We just went on a spring college tour and she got two things out of it. 1. she could be happy at the schools where her scores were solidly in the mid-range (in state, not the flagship) and 2. the tour inspired her to try to get her scores up. She is studying her heart out to try to get up close to the midrange of her current “reaches” but knows that she will be OK whatever the outcome.</p>
<p>Perhaps you can motivate your daughter to study this summer and take it one more time in October. Only do so if she (not you) is disappointed and would like to take one more shot at it. It is frustrating that 4 years of hard work are undermined (at least to a certain extent) by a 4 hour exam…My attitude is that extra prep for these tests is good practice for certain future tests (GREs) or, as I have discovered, some exams given by private firms to filter job candidates (yes, many banks and businesses use testing VERY much like the GMAT or SAT!). Long term…our Ds need to master standardized test taking skills as much as possible. They may well need to do well for grad school or a job. Sad but true. I am forking out a lot for a private tutor, but if it gives her an edge not just now but long term, it is a good investment.</p>
<p>Hi- I have been a long time lurker, but I have never posted before. My son is one of those high GPA ( top 5pct of class # 10 class rank) at one of the “best high schools in America”, blah , blah and I had the exact same issue. I was actually nauseated by his SAT score ( good but not spectacular). My “homemade” plan revolved around using the score choice. We took each section, and, studied only for that particular section for a particular ACT date. For instance, in Feb, he got a 34 on the critical reading ( he reads a lot), yet a 21 on the English and a 25 on math. I pulled the CR score out of the batch, and we never looked at it again. Now, he, with me prodding constantly, ONLY studied for the English section- 20/30 min everyday/ In April he got a 31 on English, so now I pulled that out of the batch. He’s good in math ( A’s in calc and AP stats,etc, but as he said, the timing was everything on the ACT.) He spent the summer ONLY studying for the math section and got a 30 ( along the way he managed to score a 31 in science, so that was pulled out from the studying box.)The kicker was when I got a call from GC at hs. He said how did DS go from a 34 in CR to a 9 ? And from a 31 in English to a 12 ? When asked about this DS shrugged and smirked and said " You kept telling me they only use the highest score from each section, so i just doodled and made a pattern on the other sections". I was worried, but, he reported the high score for each section on the comm app and, low and behold, he got in ED to a top USNWR top 30, so I’m fairly sure they do only pick out the highest scores. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Erin’s Dad–most highly selective schools will list class rank above GPA and then rigor of classes–Harvard lists class rank and then rigor, Yale lists “transcript” -rigor and then grades, then LOR, Princeton also lists transcript, again looking for rigor then grades. All of these schools list academic curiosity as their number one factor though. GPA isn’t even really mentioned as something they want to see specifically but your class schedule and where you relate to others in your class (rank) is more important to them according to their websites and meetings with ad comms from various selective and highly selective schools. Test scores are the “back up” to confirm that information, so a 3.8 with lackluster test scores is not going to get the same consideration as a 3.5 with top test scores (all else equal).</p>
<p>One more vote for trying the ACT. I’m an SAT/ACT tutor and sometimes the difference between them for a student is dramatic (equivalent of a couple hundred SAT points or more). They are VERY different tests. In general the content of the ACT is easier/more straightforward than the SAT. As someone already mentioned, the thing that makes the ACT challenging is the time factor. Speed is king.</p>
<p>Ask your daughter if she’s willing to take a full length, timed practice ACT at home. You can download one for free here:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/preparing.pdf[/url]”>http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/preparing.pdf</a></p>
<p>Just don’t ask her to invest any time in prep before trying this. I really hate asking students to switch tests at this stage in the game because starting over is going to be hard. However, if her scores on the practice test are better than her SAT scores, you’ll know it’s going to be worth the effort. If not, she can just put her standardized testing career behind her and focus on senior year! The good news is that she can do her prep over the summer for the September ACT so she won’t have to juggle it with the rest of her school work. Best of luck to you both.</p>
<p>@Erin’s dad</p>
<p>Bates, a leader in the SAT optional movement did a retrospective study comparing 20 years of college performance between score submitters and non-submitters. The main difference was that submitters had greater achievement in graduate school–ironocally, because you have to take standardized tests to apply to graduate school. </p>
<p>[News</a> | Bates College](<a href=“http://www.bates.edu/news/2005/10/01/sat-study/]News”>20-year Bates College study of optional SATs finds no differences | News | Bates College)</p>
<p>A recent study indicated that a 3.0 high school GPA–regardless of high school-- is the best single predictor of college success, i.e., graduation. </p>
<p>[And</a> the best predictor of college success is …](<a href=“http://www.higheredmorning.com/and-the-best-predictor-of-college-success-is]And”>http://www.higheredmorning.com/and-the-best-predictor-of-college-success-is)</p>
<p>My daughter is another high GPA, so-so SAT high school senior. She is now deciding between a top public university and a few top private–SAT optional lacs. </p>
<p>There are some fine schools on this list:</p>
<p>[SAT/ACT</a> Optional 4-Year Universities | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional]SAT/ACT”>ACT/SAT Optional List - Fairtest)</p>
<p>LadyHam, Thanks for your post. Actually, the SATs are timed as well. Each section is between 20 and 25 minutes long and has 20ish questions for reading and about 16-18 questions for the math. My daughter practiced for 3 months before taking each of the tests. The first time, I helped her prepare and the second time, we hired a tutor for the math section. As you say, the fact that it is timed is the main problem. Between now and the fall, I have a feeling that she will hear her friends talk about their scores and taking the test again. It may take some peer pressure to impress upon her the importance of doing better on these tests. Her scores will likely get her into our flagship state school, but would not be high enough for any merit aid for an out of state school. </p>
<p>I think we parents need to vent about this whole stressful process in order to help ourselves keep it all in perspective. The calmer we are, the calmer our kids will be. My older daughter is now a sophomore in college and very happy where she goes. Perhaps fate will step in somehow to guide my younger daughter along. We’ll see!</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for helping me see that many kids are in the same boat! Your support and suggestions are much appreciated :)</p>
<p>^^ I agree, OHS1979. I was dumbfounded when my D got her first SAT scores back and they did not correlate well with her grades. We enrolled her in an SAT class to help; she has not taken it again so the jury is out on that. She did try the ACT and really didn’t do anything except skim through a prep book in a few hours, but we will know the answer to that late this month. I’ll try to remember to check back and tell you how that compared. She did not love the time constraints, which exist in the SAT but are not the “problem”. She too is a studious kid and her homework is not something she flies through, but she gets all As in the toughest classes offered so she’s doing something right. I sure wish standardized testing was not in existence! Its so nice to know she is not alone. I’ll be very curious to see where these kids wind up.</p>
<p>The problem with the SAT is it is math and writing focused. If those are not strong subjects for your child it’s hard to get a stellar score. ACT is much more rounded, with more subject matter tested so if your student is a good science and English (grammar/usage, etc.) student, they can score high in those areas, average in math and reading and still get a respectable score.</p>
<p>My niece, HS class of 2011, was high GPA, so-so SAT and refused to take the ACT. Her high school only offered one AP course. She had “rigor” compared to her school, but not compared to the college application pool.</p>
<p>The fair test schools schools she applied to all accepted her and provided merit! She is a happy freshman at American U and paying less than our state schools.</p>
<p>I see you said Catholic schools are not an option.</p>
<p>Do NOT rule out schools based upon religious affiliation. Many have no religious requirements or have requirements that may be met with a philosophy course. The Quaker schools I am familiar with all fall into this category. Most Quaker schools are test optional.</p>
<p>Along with the fairtest site, take a look at the CTCL site (Colleges That Change Lives).</p>
<p>BTW - I am in the opposite boat (high scores/low GPA) and would trade with you any day! Our worry is that Counselor will not clearly communicate grade deflation at our school (no ranking, no scattergrams)</p>
<p>Hi Longhaul,
Good luck with your son/daughter finding a school that fits. There are so many schools out there; it’s hard to know which one is the best fit.</p>
<p>We are Jewish, so a Catholic school would not be a good fit for us. I understand that there might not be any obligations in terms of coursework, but there wouldn’t be much of a peer group of other Jewish students at a Catholic school. We’d like there to be at least some other Jewish students, not just a few. There are so many excellent Catholic schools out there–unfortunately, this wouldn’t work for us. </p>
<p>What schools have you looked at so far?</p>
<p>To those of you whose sons/daughters took the ACT after the SAT, I’m curious how the scores compare. It sounds like the ACT takes an average of the scores, which helps the student who may be strong in one area, but weak in another. I will definitely investigate this option. </p>
<p>89wahoo: I hope your daughter did well on the ACT.</p>
<p>fineartsmajormom: Once she has had a bit of time to reflect on our college visits this week, I hope my own daughter ends up inspired to bring up her scores, just to give her a better edge. It will be interesting to see if she comes to me and asks to take the SAT again for one last hurrah.<br>
Good luck to us all as we support our kids through this process! Thank God for white zinfandel :)</p>
<p>OP, what about Stony Brook? Her math score is on the low side, but the CR score does fall within their middle-50%, and even the OOS rates aren’t that bad.</p>
<p>*If your daughter does take the ACT, just be aware that it is a timed test. With my daughter, I think this is one of the reasons why she doesn’t do better on it. She has done sections of the reading section of the ACT for her AP English class and will get a 34 on them when not rushed w/a time limit; however, when she takes a practice reading section, and is given the same time limit as the ACT, she will only score about a 27 or 28. It has been suggested here that I have my daughter take the SAT because it does not have the same sort of time constraints that the ACT does. Right now she has put so much time into preparing for the ACT, that I can’t even think of her taking the SAT until sometime this Fall, when she has the summer to prepare.</p>
<p>I think part of the reason that my daughter struggles w/the ACT is partially due to the time constraints. When she does homework, she really takes her time and is very thorough. I just think the time constraints of the ACT are unrealistic for her. She takes tests all the time for her classes, and they are not given unlimited time, and she is able to do well enough on them to have a very good GPA. She doesn’t have any official scores from a real ACT test; she won’t get back her first set of scores until the end of April and then we will take it from there.*</p>
<p>Ladyham…</p>
<p>If your D is having issues with the SR section of the ACT, then have her take SAT. No Science on that. </p>
<p>I understand what you mean when you say that your D takes her time on homework to make sure she gets things right. How does she do on class exams? Do her teachers give her extra time?</p>
<p>mom2collegekids ~ She does very well in her exams. She’s been in all honors classes since her freshman year, and now her Junior year she is taking AP classes as well. She does fine w/the timing for in class exams and does not need extra time or anything like that. The ACT timing though is a different story. It is just timed so tight and you have to sort of rush through to make sure you finish. She has gotten better the more she has been practicing though. She is just one that likes to take her time and double check things, which does not really work w/the ACT. The science section on the ACT is just so, I don’t know, I guess inconsistent would be a good word. My daughter has probably taken 7-8 practice tests and can score any where from a 34 to a 26 on that section depending on how difficult that section happens to be in a particular test. She has been preparing for the ACT since February and just took it last Saturday. She has another one at her high school as part of standardized testing on Tuesday, without the writing portion though, (gotta love all the cutbacks in education in the state of Illinois) and then also on June 9th as well. Depending on those scores, we may have her take the SAT in the Fall. She would have the summer to prepare for it. Thanks so much for the words of advice!</p>
<p>My D is studying with a tutor for the SAT…it is a national program …packaged approach but the tutor is very flexible and listening to my D about where she needs to focus her efforts. I won’t be able to say if it has been successful until June but I see several benefits (despite the cost).
- D is taking control of beating this test; she is motivated and is determined not to be a passive victim of the testing cabal.<br>
- her expectations are high but not unrealistic about how much she can improve.
- She knows that the test is not a reflection of her intelligence but to a certain extent it is a reflection of her determination.</p>
<p>Frankly, I am seeing this whole thing as a very valuable experience. Come what may, she knows that when something is hard you need to use your internal resources and hard work to overcome BUT you also should look for help and tools if available. In some ways, my S with the walk in cold and get over 700 on every section first sitting, is at a disadvantage to his sister.</p>
<p>I am so glad to see this thread. My jr. son took the SAT for the first time and got a 1750. He has a 3.9 gpa (honors/AP) and is very active in school and church. He does not want to go Ivy so we are okay there. I am concerned because friends are telling me that he may not be able to get into our state schools (UGA and GA Tech). I have heard that he should take the ACT. </p>
<p>Anyone know of good schools in the Mid-Atlantic area that may take a student like him (he will take the SAT again and the ACT).</p>
<p>I also heard his scores are not high enough to try for EA. I heard EA is only for students with exceptional grades and test scores.</p>
<p>your son will get into most state schools with those stats…EA is NOT just for high test scorers</p>
<p>gotta run…check with your guidance counselor because they will have a better sense how kids do from your school with your son’s profile/scores. On the surface, he is in the lower bound for GAtech (depends upon his math score) but in the middle range for GA. Thus, on paper, neither school is a safety for your son. </p>
<p>This is precisely our worry with UVA and William and Mary, our state flagships, where acceptance is practically impossible unless you get above the 2100! The state schools also are more driven by the statistics since they don’t have the luxury of looking “holistically” at the application.</p>