3rd party scholarships ... realistic?

Paying for College
21

I’ve served on the scholarship committee for a local foundation. I’m sure it’s frustrating not to be considered “needy” but still need money from the third party organizations- but the kids we funded really came out of terrible circumstances and without our funding would NOT have been able to go to college- any college. The outside money for some of them was the difference between getting an education or staying home to contribute their paycheck from KFC or Walmart to help keep a roof over the family’s head. These were not families who had the option of taking a HELOC (they didn’t own a home) or running up a credit card (many of them didn’t have those either) or just belt tightening (how much tighter can the belt go?)

So yes- it’s frustrating to read about all these scholarships and realize that your middle class kid won’t qualify. (or upper middle class if I’m reading a 63K EFC correctly). But the donors intention is not to lessen the pain of the upper middle class (when it’s a private foundation, funded by a family or group of donors). It’s to get talented kids to college who otherwise would be trapped in a minimum wage existence for their entire careers. Sure- from the middle class perch, these kids should just enlist in the army (which is what a huge number of them do) and go to college afterwards (which a huge number of them do). But a kid with a medical disqualification who can’t serve, who doesn’t have a cheap public college within commuting distance, or lives in a place with no public transportation to the public college, really doesn’t have options.

So Hank- big hug to you. I know this is frustrating. But the money (and there isn’t enough of it, no way no how) from private, outside sources usually is getting targeted to kids who are hard workers, ambitious go-getters, who can’t get to college without the extra help that these scholarships provide.

For your younger kids- the payoff is very clear- an hour spent online looking at outside scholarships, vs. an hour finishing your math homework to make sure your grades and scores are the best they can be- tell them to do their homework. Being a high stats kid who qualifies for merit aid is for sure better than being a moderate stats kid who NEEDS merit aid but is on the bubble.

22

This is all good info, thank you. I mainly wanted to know how much time I should bother to put into outside scholarships. It sounds like the answer is “not too much”, and to try to target a very few specific ones that are for a given school, and around certain majors. Appreciate the info.

23

@thumper1

Really depends on what you mean by a “plan”. If that means: We have a large amount of money in a 529, plenty of liquid savings, grandparents who are pitching in, and the actual billing component of college is more of an afterthought, then the answer would be no.

If you mean: We have some money saved (1.5 years worth of net tuition as of now), and we think we can afford 2K per month from our budget, plus money at bonus time each year end, and we plan on using some loans, and we have a few fallback options (which we aim to avoid using) that include home equity and possibly even tapping Roth retirement money, then yes.

It depends on the final choice. We’ll know more likely by tomorrow with the UCONN decisions. She has expressed a strong desire to borrow as much as needed to go to a school she actually wants to go to. We’ve talked about debt, interest, and the like. It’s not a black and white answer really. Debt was absolutely fine for me, my major/career more than paid for the 40K in college loans many times over. Hers may, or may not. Can’t know without a crystal ball. Just like you can’t know if saving 40K going to a weak school will be worth it in the end either.

Yes, trying to be very careful. My calculators include a 3% increase in cost each year (with no increase in merit, of course). I’m always weighing the fact that merit can be lost. A school offering 20K per year in merit that is the same net cost as a school with no merit, is not equal. At the former, you can lose your aid, at the latter there is no aid to lose.

24

S19 is a cancer survivor. He did lots of research and is applying to about a dozen cancer-related scholarships. I am very skeptical of his chances and I told him so. The total he is applying for amounts to over $50,000. He has been pretty crafty using one essay (How has cancer impacted your life?) in most of the applications, so not huge amounts of time. Of the $50,000 he is applying for, I will be thrilled for him if he gets $1,000. We are a need-based family, which can be linked to the cancer.

Anecdotally, one of the scholarships is for $500 and the instructions very clearly say “due to the high volume of applicants, please do not call us, we will notify you.”…for $500.

25

We decided to basically treat potential outside scholarships as extra icing on the cake we already wanted.

The college my d19 has chose to attend meets full need as they define it. They do include student loans and work study in how they meet that need. If she is able to cover those amounts with scholarships, they allow the loans and work study to be replaced before it dips into the amount they have granted her. They have no merit awards. So we told her she needed to decide before accepting her place whether she was willing to take on loans and work study of no scholarships cane through. She decided it was worth it. And began applying to almost any scholarship she could find.

So far she hasn’t heard from most of the local ones although most deadlines have passed (there might be some due early in March). She’s not super stressed though since her overall plan wasn’t based on winning any scholarships. They will take the pressure off next year, but she doesn’t need them to be able to attend.

26

If it were me (and I respect the fact, Hank, that it’s not) I’d be working overtime to get my kid excited about one of the not-so-big loan options right now. If she has a choice between two exciting options- one with the federal loans (under 30K) and another with HER loans plus a Parent Plus loan of maybe another 30K over the four years? That’s a discussion worth having. And she can make a spreadsheet, and understand what kind of income she’ll need to generate to pay off her portion of the loans, and what impact your indebtedness will have on the younger siblings and your family life. Good, robust discussion. No right answer. But a dialogue. And if there’s a no loan option in the mix? And even more robust discussion. She’ll be able to afford that “we pay your tuition and room/board but you need to pay your airfare” fellowship after graduation. She’ll be able to afford to work on a political campaign the summer after she graduates and defer the job search until after November. She can afford to write a play, a concerto, a biography of the person she admires most while waitressing if that’s what she really wants to do at age 22.

The idea that “I’ll borrow whatever it takes to go to the college I want to go to” is not a discussion you can have. There are no right answers to that, there are no wrong answers, there’s just “I need to find another X thousand dollars a year so I’ll take on my loans, Dad, you’ll take on the rest”. No spreadsheet can help get clarity here. Because after all- it’s college, not the state penitentiary, and you guys won’t be able to bear the thought of condemning her to four years at a place she thinks she’ll hate because it’s affordable and you made her go there.

Get cracking. Time to find three things to love about one of her affordable options. (and six is even better).

27

What are the requirements for keeping that merit scholarship?

28

I always suggest…if you think you will be able to contribute $2000 a month for college…start doing that now. Do it for several months…and see if you think that is sustainable for four years.

It’s nice to think about those loans, but remember, it’s the parents who are going to be on the hook for repaying loans in excess of the Direct Loan…eithet as co-signers or as private loan borrowers or Parent Plus Loan borrowers.

You can’t predict the job market in the future or even IF your daughter will want to work at a high paying job. An anecdote sample of one. My DD was an engineering major…and yes, that had a lot of income potential. She got her degree, and decided engineering just wasn’t her thing. She will never be an engineer.

In the meantime, her musician brother is supporting himself as a musician…he doesn’t make a fortune, but he pays his bills.

My point is…don’t count on your kid having a high paying job as a college graduate. She might not. Plus, she will have a lot more options available to her if she doesn’t have a strangling amount of loans to pay.

By having a plan…I mean…will your daughter be able to stay at her first college if it is overpriced for your family? It would be terrible to have to tell her she needed to transfer because the family finances couldn’t support her higher cost college…or that you might not be able to be a qualified co-signer for private loans.

29

@blossom

She’s a good kid, and in all honesty, she will go wherever we make her go. Doesn’t mean she will be happy, thrive, succeed or even stay in the school, however, if she doesn’t want to be at that place. This could happen because we send her to a school she doesn’t want, or even if she goes to one she wants but has a bad experience. Crystal ball scenario. We’re going to push her to go to the affordable schools, for sure. She gets that.

30

Hank, it’s obvious she’s a good kid. And nobody has a crystal ball. But packing her off to a place she’s excited about at least sets the stage for a good transition to college. I’ve seen the kids who trudge off to the place they swear they’ll hate and guess what? They hate it. So easy to hate college- the workload is heavy, unless you’re in Santa Barbara or Aruba et al it gets cold and gloomy right around midterms, and just as you’re starting to make a few friends, you realize you miss the dog, younger sibling, dad’s burgers, the way mom sings in that really irritating way in the car.

31

@blossom

Haha, love the references.

This is mainly where I am coming from. I have told people a hundred times that I would send her to a place where I think she can thrive. Socially, academically, and most importantly, in her education and career. If I could play sliding doors and see how things might go at each school, I would surely choose the one where she graduates with a degree and an internship or two under her belt, no regrets on her college choice and proud of her sweatshirt, far more than the prestige that may be in that schools name. So we definitely want her engaged and excited about it.

32

@HankCT and others. For your younger kids, and maybe for current senior, you might look into this new raise.me outside merit scholarship program. This started after both my kids were entering college so I do not know much, but I know my Ds college will allow up to $20,000 (total? Per year? I don’t know how it works) thru raise.me. Only certain colleges participate but it might be worth registering and seeing which colleges use it, it seems kids get scholarship funds for good grades, leadership, etc. seems it could’ve helped families like yours (and mine) that are mid to upper middle class that may not get merit aid and likely don’t qualify for need based aid. Again, I don’t know much about it, but it is an intriguing scholarship source? https://www.raise.me/

33

@twicemama Sounds interesting, but I have my skepticism about it. They partner with schools, which means there is transparency between them. What I would think, is that the school is going to award 15K per year in merit to any kid who has X SAT and Y GPA. Whether using raise.me or not. Let’s say Raise.me is promising 4200 in merit when the child applies, my guess is that the school would just offer 15K - 4200 in merit beyond the raise.me amount, and essentially the cost is the same.

They do this often in the working world. “Hey, we will give you a sign on bonus!”, bur really they just remove that amount from the end of year bonus you later get, and you end up getting the total comp they always planned to give for the year. In the meantime, raise.me gets kick backs from the college as sort of a small finders fee, plus ad revenue. And your kid may double stress over every grade as they see the dollars adding up.

I appreciate the lead, but I am skeptical.

34

To answer your original question of outside scholarships for a student who isn’t needy or academically outstanding, my DD’17 had a 3.9 and a 25 ACT. Locally, she won $1500 from the ethanol plant, and $750 from the rural electric cooperative. Nationally, she won a Printing & Graphic Scholarship Foundation scholarship of $1500 for her first year and $1600 for her second year. We found that one on Sallie Mae’s scholarship search. (Highly recommend any graphic design students apply to this one!)

She is doing a 2 year Graphic Design AAS at community college. Between the above and the school’s endowed scholarships that she applied for every semester, scholarships covered the bulk of her tuition. (Won 4 out of 5 semesters, $500-$1000 each time- also highly recommend continuing students apply for their college’s endowed scholarships every year.)

DD’19 is currently applying for every local/regional one we can find. She has chosen a school with approx. $16K COA after auto merit, that will be cheaper once she can move off campus. So I’m hoping for a few thousand in outside scholarships for her more expensive on-campus freshman year. It will definitely help us out. I feel like our small school has a lot of local scholarship opportunities and a small number of college bound students so hopefully she will have some success.

For a while she yearned for some private schools in exotic locations. We had multiple talks about how a debt-free education will allow her to do so much more in her adult life. This school is not our cheapest option either, but the best combination of reasonable cost, choice of majors, and easy travel.

35

Okay so here’s the thing about excitement and college, coming from a college senior who went to what was technically her last-choice school: you choose whether you’re excited about school.

Do I have a lot of problems with the school I went to? Sure. I hate a lot of the student body; the campus is wildly conservative, and I am wildly liberal. The food is terrible. The dorms are terrible. Certain departments are terrible. But, y’know, I’m an adult, so I’m also capable of choosing to be grateful and focusing on the things that are great: small class sizes, individual attention, certain other departments, a couple of amazing faculty members.

There are great things at any accredited school, and I think you’ll find that any sufficiently bright kid is able to find happiness just about anywhere. So I wouldn’t buy into the myth that there are only a few places where the kid will be happy or excited. Sometimes we aren’t excited from the get-go, and that’s okay. I wanted to transfer for basically my entire freshman year until I sucked it up, made friends, and began focusing on the things that were great.

Now, at the end of my college career, I find myself incredibly grateful that I went somewhere affordable. Students all around me (for which the college wasn’t affordable, or who went to different universities entirely) are largely graduating with huge amounts of debt, no job, etc etc – even at elite schools where they thought they would be happy, where they thought the jobs would come knocking. Let me tell you: that breeds a lot of resentment now that those kids are getting old enough to understand what all that debt means. Even if they’re dealing with a more manageable amount of debt, it still impacts decisions like getting married and having the wedding you want, where you rent your apartment and what part of the city you get to live in (or where you move for a job to begin with), what furniture you can get, whether you can travel, and a long list of other quality-of-life things that really do make a big impact. Not all debt is the devil, of course – but if you have the choice of avoiding it, I’d really recommend it.

My school is completely unranked in my field. I still ended up with 3 elite internships and an elite full time job, and I don’t think it’s because I worked insanely hard or anything like that, either. I just tried. I didn’t expect career services to make a career fall into my lap, so I applied to positions on my own. I didn’t wait for career fair to roll around. Minor effort stuff like that.

So I remain unconvinced that kids need (for undergrad) any particular accredited school over another. It seems very whatever to me.

Anyway.

About outside scholarships: the kids who win those are typically poor, or extremely high achieving with a lot of community service hours (which is the key–for the most competitive national scholarships, we’re talking thousands of hours in high school), or both. I can talk more about the outside scholarships gamut if you really want, but I don’t think it’s the best approach for you unless the kid happens to have a bunch of really unique internships or founded a non-profit or some other hook that you haven’t mentioned. And, as mentioned, even for kids who do tick those boxes, it’s still kind of a rat race. A rat race that you can get good at gaming, but a rat race nonetheless.

36

@STEM2017 - My D is also a cancer survivor, and got $16,500 in cancer-related scholarships this past year - so it’s definitely doable! Have you checked out schools like Drexel that have a full-ride scholarship for cancer survivors (its not automatic and pretty competitive, which is sad when you think about it since that means there were a lot of kids that had cancer applying)

37

My d19 was on raise.me since 9th grade. It was a fun resource for seeing possibilities at the time and especially for seeing an easy conversion from our school’s 100 point scale to a 4.0 scale.
My d22 has already had fun creating an account and inputting her grades. It’s giving her fun ideas for colleges to look at at a known minimum amount she would get off the cost, but that’s about it.
I believe it’s too late to use it for current seniors. At least as far as the colleges my d19 was following on it, they basically closed the books on her microscholarship amounts a few months ago. She ended up choosing a college that didn’t participate in it anyway.

38

@Schadret Thank you for that info. I’ve heard about the Drexel scholarship and also St. Joseph’s in Philly has a similar one. Son isn’t interested in either school, unfortunately. Congratulations to your daughter! I agree, very sad, but if there is anyone who can handle this fight, it’s our kids.

39

@CourtneyThurston Thanks so much for your post. I plan to show it to my DD, since there is a much better chance of her listening to other students than to her own parents :slight_smile:

40

@bjscheel Thanks for your post. By the way, I think that a 3.9 GPA is indeed outstanding! I understand that there is always someone with better numbers somewhere, but that is likely in the top fraction of kids.

I think there is an invisible barrier, I really do, between schools that are “good enough” and schools that aren’t. At a certain level for most jobs, a hiring party will say “this is a decent school, I trust it”. Then there are schools that they will say “meh, anyone can get into this school”. That’s essentially our baseline. After that, we’re going to go with that best combination of likeable and affordable that makes sense.

Originally DD wanted to go to Denver. We let her apply, but when she saw U Denver say yes and give 15K in money, that still left her with 45K per year to pay out of pocket. So she moved on. She also realizes being closer to home will be much cheaper and easier for when she wants Mom’s cooking or to see her sisters.