<p>I dont think 40% of College Admissions have...
what do you think?</p>
<p>St</a>. Charles schools may eliminate class ranking - DailyHerald.com</p>
<p>what do we think about 'what?</p>
<p>fwiw: an article in the LATimes several years ago reported that less than half of California school provide a rank. So the 40% number that is quoted seems reasonable to me.</p>
<p>This goes hand-in-hand with everyone getting participation trophies. And the School System is flat out wrong in stating the state schools don’t consider rank. [University</a> of Illinois: Student Enrollment Reports](<a href=“http://www.dmi.illinois.edu/stuenr/]University”>Student Enrollment) [2009-10</a> First-time, first-year (freshman) admission, Common Data Set - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2009-10/c.htm]2009-10”>http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2009-10/c.htm) Colleges are also able to infer the class rank based on the school profile.</p>
<p>California high schools not bothering with rank may be due to UC and CSU not considering rank at all (note that UC ELC is based on comparison of GPA against a benchmark GPA set by previous classes at the high school).</p>
<p>Of course, there have been discussions about gaming various high schools’ rankings, such as getting a lower rank based on weighted GPA due to taking an extra course without an honors version available.</p>
<p>To avoid such misaligned incentives, perhaps a better method of ranking is to count grade *points<a href=“not%20grade%20point%20%5Bi%5Daverage%5B/i%5D”>/i</a>, weighted for honors/AP/etc., in academic courses, and add a fraction of grade points from non-academic courses as a tiebreaker (i.e. if two students had the same grades in the same academic courses, but one took extra courses in wood shop, auto shop, etc., the one with the extras ranks higher).</p>
<p>UCBALUM…I think that you have hit on part of the problem. Not only do all HS’s not ranks the same, but many are not fair. </p>
<p>Example at DS school that DOES rank- he is taking DE courses this year. Those grades do not count for, or against his GPA or class rank. He has been #1 in his class until this semester (spring of senior year). Since he is taking DE, he will not be Val, might not be Sal, depending on how one student does. If they counted the DE courses, he would be Val. I realize that this was put in place to prevent decreasing a students GPA, but it should not penalize a good student’s GPA!! </p>
<p>Other schools give points to students based on +/- grades. Some are on a 5 point scale before they add weight for honors/AP…Some schools do not add weight to AP/honors at all. So those taking the easiest classes and teachers are rewarded. </p>
<p>Unless all schools figure out a way to fairly administor rank across the US, ranks are not fair or a clear indicator of a students ability. So I for one applaud dropping the class rank as an indicator. Then who give the speach? Someone chosen based on their personality by the students, not their academic achievements? No easy answers.</p>
<p>Our California district does not rank but it has absolutely nothing to do with UC. </p>
<p>It’s policy is focused solely on the gaming. Taking an extra class, say Orchestra, in senior year would lower the gpa since it is not weighted (which is obviously a bad incentive). Our district also did away with Val/Sal for the same reason.</p>
<p>I so agree with last two posts. It’s gaming the system. Our Val. this year will be someone who has taked Pass/Fall classes, Honors rather than AP ( weighted the same),
6 graded periods rather than 7 or 8 ( it’s all about the Honors percentages),
took Spanish in 8th grade so they can get in that extra AP as a Senior…
bunch of BS. Encourage our kids to be well rounded, stretch themselves,
and give the top 1 or 2 % Magna CumLaude, and top 10% Cum Laude…</p>
<p>Throw in that every School District handles rank differently ( we dont use + or -)
and you have a broken system. My kid probably wont get $$ because altho he has the scores, his GPA will miss by tenths. And he had 7 graded periods 9-12 grade. Illinois requires PE every year which does not count towards GPA or he would have had 8 graded periods. He was double accel. math, numerous APs… but Band and Jazz worked against him, even tho they are audition groups they are not Honors.
It’s maddening!</p>
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<p>I’ve never quite believed this. If the school profile is highly detailed, with an explanation of how GPA is determined, the number of students in different ranges of GPA, the number of AP/Honors/etc courses, possibly a breakdown of grade distribution in individual classes, then it’s still a fair bit of work to figure out exactly where a student ranks based just on their transcript. Easy if they’ve got straight A’s in every AP course the school offers, but not so easy if you’re looking to see if someone is top 5% vs top 10% vs just outside top 10%. </p>
<p>If the profile doesn’t offer much detail, then there’s not enough data for the colleges to infer class rank.</p>
<p>The GC rating and rec could offer clues. </p>
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<p>From which I gather that those District officials don’t have much insight into college admissions issues. C’mon, guys, do your homework beforehand!</p>
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<p>Northwestern is a private university, not a state school.</p>
<p>cortana, exactly. That’s CC 101. ;)</p>
<p>Which adcoms have time to speculate on rank? And, as Slithey says, it’s still hard to figure if someone’s grades put him in the top 5 or top 5% or just out of there. </p>
<p>You can sometimes look at the school profile and glean an impression, without a calculator in hand. If a school has too many kids bundled in the top gpa range, something’s fishy. If a kid is one of a small percentage of kids performing well, it’s more impressive. But, lots of schools that don’t rank are scrupulous about not revealing anything that would allow another to guess. Adcoms tend to know a lot about the strengths or limitations of hs in their regions, what they can expect of those kids. And, they read transcripts.</p>
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<p>don’t look now, but being val and sal doesnt give you money anyway!!! Unless it is the rare school that gives a few bucks, or your district does something that mine does not. But basically, it has meant very little in the college ap process.</p>
<p>And as far as the school profile goes, GC’s write them, and they change them to meet the needs of the student/school being applied to when they feel the urge. So those are only slightly useful for ANYTHING. I remember my SHOCK when I saw a copy of our schools profile- the “stretched” statistics were pretty obvious to me, but might not be to an adcom. Including college bound senior statistic, the colleges kids were accepted to, and avg SAT scores. All were, well…“enhanced”.</p>
<p>ldavis: some hs count all classes and yes, band, jazz, driver’s ed and PE B’s could drop the overall gpa and affect rank at that hs. Some hs only include solids in gpa or, in your example, migh count orch as a half-credit class. And so many have differing weighting formulas.</p>
<p>^Our class gives the same credit to orchestra as any AP class. Guess who the kids at the top of the class are annually? Weighted rankings can be so flawed and thankfully most (but not all) competitive HS have removed it. When you look at kids who will craft their schedule just to play the ranking game, you realize the lunacy of “separating the men from the boys” with rank. Good riddance.</p>
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I really doubt that an adcom who looks at school profiles for a living would miss what you noticed.</p>
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<p>how would they know that only 25 % of our students go to 4 year instead of the 75% on the profile. Or the avg SAT was actually 250 points lower than what was listed, and that NO ONE has ever gone to Harvard or MIT from our school? How would the adcom know that if it is just one student applying to that school, and we did not regularly have students apply? </p>
<p>No, I think the one I saw had stretched statistics to meet the needs of students applying to elite schools. It was not the same as the one one the students applying to state schools had sent out.</p>
<p>Our school district does not rank, and hasn’t for decades—I know they didn’t when I graduated back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. I don’t know how they could–we have honors, AP, and IB classes. Choral/band programs range from beginning programs to audition only award winners…which should be weighted. I think adcoms have a good idea of what happens at schools in their areas, but the specifics may be a little vague.</p>
<p>I know when D needed a rank estimate for an outside scholarship, her GC was happy to provide it, and back it up in writing if needed.</p>
<p>vlines: how many go to 4 yr vs 2 yr is also a question on the Common App’s School Report form that the GC fills out. Regional reps not only read the school profile, they study public reports on hs in their areas, socioeconomic data on the communities and educational trends in an area. Any of us can google for info of that sort.</p>
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<p>It can, if being in the top 2 helps you get into a super-selective school with extra-generous financial aid (e.g. HYPS). In some other threads, there are claims that being in the top 2 is one of the big academic factors in super-selective school admissions for unhooked applicants. If that is the case, then there is considerable incentive to game the high school’s ranking system for those with aspirations to super-selective schools.</p>
<p>There can also be rank gaming in places like Texas, where making or missing the top 8%, 9%, or 10% (depending on year of application) can determine whether UT Austin is a safety or a reach for you.</p>
<p>Our state has specific scholarships at public Us for vals and sals.</p>