<p>Has anyone else ever had a “write 100 lines” type of assignment? My husband, children and I are all products of public schools and we’ve never had that. I think of that as a historical relic like dipping pigtails in inkwells. Does this really still go on in any kind of widespread basis?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, of course; seems simple enough, doesn’t it? Yet this is the opposite of what is happening in public education. Bigger classes, more students unwilling or unable to be quiet and attentive when their teacher is speaking, less administrative and parental support in dealing with such students, and more frustration every year as things get worse. Try speaking over, being interrupted by or breaking up the distractions (or fighting) of the same couple of people EVERY TIME you open your mouth at your job, no matter what you do or how you try to control the situation, and let me know how long it takes for you to want to give up. But you can’t; in fact, you have to take MORE time to explain again what you said to the ones who weren’t listening. Believe me, we teachers are sorry about what it costs the rest of the kids, and we know we spend 90% of our time dealing with 10% of the students.</p>
<p>Why is it so hard to believe that the best predictor of measurable learning is students’ willingness to learn? And I agree that it is not a common talent to be that truly inspirational teacher who makes every kid hang on every word. Most teachers are merely competent, and can convey information to those who are at best receptive and at least not distracting to those who are receptive. If only!</p>
<p>And by the way, what do you think happens when you put the poorly behaved and the totally clueless (although we use kinder words in special ed) in the SAME small classes? You get the kids who need the most attention getting the least, because their teacher is too often dealing with behavior issues. Not a recipe for success either…</p>
<p>individualized education</p>
<p>With some changes made I’d expect that public schools can structure in a way that students receive individualized education. What these changes are requires inputs from experts and creative thinking. We have to have individualized education to be the best that we can be. Large class size has the opposite effect.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl–never have ANY of my kids had to write lines for anything…but then again, when our kids were 9 they were not in high school…</p>
<p>LoremIpsum–so, your kids were at a magnet school, the teachers were incompetent, why did you keep them there? I know around here the magnet schools are awful. I would never send my child to one. Did you not do your research on the schools? Did you not visit the schools, talk to parents, current students, etc?</p>
<p>I remember when I was in high school I wasn’t much of a student. I was in my low level math class (again) and a stoner behind me would sing “Riders on the Storm” by The Doors everyday. One day the teacher had enough and told him to write 25 sentences and they were due the next day. The stoner didn’t do it, the teacher then gave him 10 shorter sentences instead. A few weeks later I was disruptive and the teacher gave me 100 sentences. I figured if I didn’t do them he would do the same for me as he had done for the stoner. When I showed up the next day without the sentences he gave me a paragraph to write, told me I had to write it 1000 times, and it was due the next day or he was going to call my parents. I was so scared that I wrote in the rest of my classes that day, all day after school until late that night, I woke up early the next day and wrote some more, as well as in all the classes I had before his. When I turned the papers in, he looked at hem for about 30 seconds and threw them in the trash. It still didn’t help me pass math.</p>
<p>Years later in college I finally realized that in order to pass a class I needed to take responsibility. I needed to study, the teacher presents the material, answers questions, and tells me what is expected. The rest is up to me, the teacher can only do so much, but I am responsible for knowing the material. Once I understood this I eventually earned a Doctorate with honors.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I have no idea, but probably not enough…</p>
<p>The education system is broken. 19 th century delivery of 21st century needs. An adversarial system with the consumer ignored by the socialist collective teachers unions battling the capitalist administration and government funding officials. Parents are a problem, because they show evidence of the lie perpetrated from both sides: that it is all for the kids.</p>
<p>Well, I’ve decided to try to change that. I’m going to run for our local school board. I homeschool my children so their pointless battles do not affect them, but perhaps some reality could start positive change. A system for the people who use it? What an idea.</p>
<p>Because really, three closed mold infested schools, high schools laying off the only english teacher and offering electives like physics in alternate years only, and a fired school board for submitting an illegal deficit budget proves that the system is beyond broken.</p>
<p>Jack, I am on a school board. Good luck with trying to change anything. The superintendent runs the district and if you think you are going to come in as another superintendent and start trying to change things you are in for a surprise. You are only one of four (or seven) people, you must convince a majority of the board to change something. At the same time the superintendent who has been making friends with the other board members will be convincing them to do things his way. Btw, aren’t you going to try to change things “For the kids” also?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Writing lines hundreds of times was something no one I knew associated with public school. If anything, the only time I had to do them, whether for offenses actually committed or collective punishment was in Catholic School. </p>
<p>While it was a much kinder gentler Catholic School than popular stereotype of nuns rapping students on hand with ruler, they were still no nonsense regarding discipline and the parents supported them. Especially after seeing how out of control many public elementary school classrooms were in US public elementary schools due to parental kvetching about their special snowflakes and teachers’/admins’ hands being tied regarding student discipline/separating out the violently disruptive students. Got a taste of that in my public middle school…and it was regarded as one of the better ones in NYC. :(</p>
<p>If you didn’t want to do the assignment at my Catholic elementary school, that was fine…they’d hold a parent-teacher conference and tell both the parent/you that the choice was to follow school/teacher rules or find yourself another school as there are plenty of chaotic local public schools for the parent/child to look into if they wanted to be exempt from the rules. In practice, if any kid at my elementary Catholic school tried to avoid doing those lines…their biggest worry is not necessarily the teachers/principal…but the parents and older neighbors who felt the student has a heavy responsibility to ensure he/she is well-behaved and if not…it’s the parents and sometimes the adult neighbors’ job to correct them. </p>
<p>While I’m not a big fan of collective punishments or excessively bureaucratic type tasks personally, they exist in various guises throughout our lives. Sometimes after carefully assessing one’s battles, it is better to learn to suck it up and deal to avoid tons of pain later. </p>
<p>I’ve seen far too many upper-middle class “special snowflake kids” at my private LAC whose parents agreed with their kids’ “right” to be exempted from “busywork punishments” and the like because it’s a “waste of time”. </p>
<p>One common issue I’ve seen with them is that if they don’t learn to pick their battles in the life, they will suffer serious consequences. </p>
<p>Several of them have called upon mutual friends/myself over the years to try getting them out of jams with the IRS/state tax authorities because they felt answering some of the “stupid questions” on the tax forms was “pointless” and either refused to answer those questions/“forgot” about filing their taxes on time. Each time, I’ve had to refuse and tell them that their self-inflicted problem borne of a mix of arrogance and an inability to “pick their battles” because:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Their self-inflicted problem does not constitute my/our more responsible friends’ emergency…especially when it is due to maladaptive personality traits/entitlement issues.* In short, it’s their problem and the clued in ones among us friends like myself know better than to get involved. </p></li>
<li><p>By the time they ask…it’s too late and they’re in way too deep for for any help…or to the point any experienced tax attorney’s willing to help them without hefty fees they weren’t willing/able to pay anyways.</p></li>
</ol>
<ul>
<li>What’s ironic is that they’re not against paying their taxes. Rather, they don’t feel like filling out their tax forms thoroughly/at all because “the questions are stupid” or “it’s a waste of time”.</li>
</ul>
<p>Also Jack, as for getting rid of the English teacher, how are you going to fix that? You would need to single handedly redo the contract. That means convincing your other board members to make order of layoffs a negotiated item. The district would then have to battle the union on it. Be ready for a recall election when you propose this to the board because the jobs you are going after are the older people running the union. If you survive the recall, good luck in trying to get the rest of the board to go along with you. When it comes to the physics class, most likely the reason it is offered every other year is because there aren’t enough kids signing up for it. How are you going to make more kids take an elective? I don’t mean to sound mean, I am just giving you the reality.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Physics an elective? How many years of science are required at your local high school(s)??</p>
<p>In the NYC public school system, if you wanted a Regents Diploma or attended a public magnet high school like the one I attended, Physics was mandatory as it was one of the 4 years of science courses required for graduation. No physics, no Regents/NYC public magnet high school diploma.</p>
<p>cobrat-
The Regent’s only requires 3 years of science. At least one course must be in the physical sciences and at least one in life sciences. Physics is not specifically required.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That must have been a recent change. 10+ years ago, Physics with lab was a requirement for a Regents diploma or a Specialized High School diploma. Knew some kids who didn’t graduate with my class because they didn’t pass Physics class despite passing the regents. </p>
<p>The number of years you cited might have been my extrapolating from my own HS’s graduation requirements.</p>
<p>^Cobrat, that’s probably the case. I find it interesting to see how different schools handle the science progression. At my kids’s schools it’s physics-chem-bio-assorted electives (organic chemistry, anatomy and physiology, bioethics, forensics, etc). At many of the other schools in our area it’s biology-chem-physics-assorted electives, and in some it’s earth sciences-biology-chem/physics-chem/physics, with chem and physics given as electives.</p>
<p>When I was in HS, the standard science sequence was bio* -> chem* -> physics* -> science electives. Kids were allowed to substitute AP versions for the first three if they were eligible. </p>
<p>I did know a few kids who did the first three out of sequence…mostly physics sophomore year instead of junior year. </p>
<p>One of the science electives I took senior year was Psychopharmacology…a mix of psychology and the study of how various drugs affect the body chemically and psychologically. One of the most interesting courses I ever took. </p>
<ul>
<li>All version required weekly labs.</li>
</ul>
<p>cobrat–Physics is technically an elective at our school. They require 4 years of science to graduate but senior year you have several options, physics being one of them. Most college bounds kids take physics but some kids that want to go into say nursing, will take anatomy/physiology instead.</p>
<p>“Physics an elective? How many years of science are required at your local high school(s)??”</p>
<p>My hs required only 2 years of science. I’ve never taken physics, ever.</p>
<p>Distribution requirements vary in many areas. Our schools require 4 years of English only - Math, science and Social Studies only require 3 years, and there is no foreign language requirement. Most college-bound students realize they need foreign language, but there have been issues with students applying to OOS colleges, when they sometimes require 4 years of Social Studies - unless you want to take AP classes, our school doesn’t offer many choices, and if you take Social Studies senior year, you likely will have a conflict with AP Calculus and Science classes, because of the way they are scheduled (double classes first semester)</p>
<p>Wow! Our HS requires 4 years each of English, Math, Science and Social Studies. It’s called the 4 X 4 plan. To graduate on the Recommended Plan you have to have 2 years of foreign language. To graduate on Distinguished Plan you have to have 3 years of foreign language.</p>
<p>The science progression is Pre-AP Biology, Pre-AP Chemistry, Pre-AP Physics, and then AP or dual of any.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Only a minority of kids at my HS did it that way. If one was going to go AP, the common tendency was to substitute AP courses for one or more of the non-AP equivalents from 9th grade on. </p>
<p>Common tendency was to go all AP from 9th-11th grade in AP bio/chem/physics or not at all. Then again, many kids taking non-AP science classes had no issues scoring 4 or higher on the AP exams. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you wanted a NY state Regents/NYC Specialized HS diploma, you needed a minimum of 3 years of Foreign language in one language or you won’t get it/graduate. Also, many colleges require at least 3 years of foreign language. </p>
<p>This was an issue with HS classmates who took Japanese or a few other languages as our HS only offered 2 years worth back in the early-mid’90s. As a result, they had to take another foreign language that was offered for 3+ years and pass its Regents exam to fulfill HS graduation requirements. </p>
<p>Thankfully, that’s no longer an issue as Japanese and other languages which were once offered for only 2 years can now be taken for 3+ years.</p>