<p>Yup, our state cutoff is about 206-7. 3 NMSF out of class of 450. Don’t know how many took the PSAT though, I’m guessing a minority. If the cutoff was even 215, I would betcha we would have none.</p>
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<p>Why do you care? I was NMSF (or NMF, don’t remember) back in the day in a very competitive state, and honestly, I don’t think it has made an iota of difference in my life.</p>
<p>^^All that and the fact that the PSAT is still the preliminary test for the SAT. Many, many schools do not fund or participate in SAT testing so the distribution is screwed into areas where the SAT is still the dominant college test. I think the scholarship component is still an inducement for areas (like ours) to administer the PSAT so the kids have an opportunity to participate. For states that mandate the ACT as a component of NCLB, districts that are cash strapped are not going to be inclined to administer two tests. To try to paint one test as an indicator of “how well” public schools are educating across the nation when that one test is not equally administered paints a false picture from the get go. If every school across the nation were administering the test to every student only then could you draw conclusions. The fact that the cut-offs vary by state also precludes looking at this nationally as Owlice is trying to point out. Finally, I’m not sure I understand the point. National Merit Scholarshp is a fine program. Some schools opt in and some opt out. Not all kids take the qualifying test. It’s at heart, just a scholarship contest so it is no surprise that there are pockets of schools that put emphasis on it and districts and families and kids that say “no thanks, I’ll pass.” The majority of posters have already said they are not surprised at the results that were posted in the original post. The point is that there is no “point” or reason to be alarmed or even any need to be concerned.</p>
<p>DS broke a 15 year no NMF streak in our very small rural high school. Although the school provided a very good education I also believe that being a good standardized test taker has something to do with it. I know some extremely bright students that just freeze when taking standardized tests…my DS always seemed so calm. I’m sure that plays a part in all this.</p>
<p>What’s the distribution of Commended students? That’s a uniform nationwide number (except I think in a couple of states the NMSF number is the same as the Commended number).</p>
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<p>Exactly. There was no Semif-Finalist the year my S took the PSAT in his school. His 218 did not make the state caught-off. Many, many more ‘average’ high schools in NJ and other high cutoff states would have had NMSF’s if the cutoff was uniform. So, I’m not just talking about one kid and one school.</p>
<p>However, I will mention that my non-NMSF kid managed to bumble into a 1510 (old style, M/V only score) despite his non-acceptable PSAT score. Maybe his class rank wasn’t totally misleading.</p>
<p>On a larger note, it seems to me that the Parents Forum has, in the last week or two, become a bastion of basking in the superiority of some schools over others, and, in an only slightly veiled way, in the related “superiority” of some students over others, for having the good sense to go to those “superior” schools.</p>
<p>I find it a bit dismaying, frankly.</p>
<p>At our HS, the PSAT is taken in soph year as practice for the SAT that is taken in Jr year - where it can actually help in the college decision making process. So zero NM Schol as these have to be from 11th grade.</p>
<p>Also, there’s no prep classes. No review. No encouraging kids to study on their own. No time taken from regular classes. No focus at all. And why should there be? Other than its now officially called the “Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifiying Test”.</p>
<p>And garland, I agree completely.</p>
<p>I wonder whether attitudes toward the PSAT have changed over the years.
In our high school, sophomores are not encouraged let alone told to take the PSAT. When S1 took it as a junior some time in the late 90s, it was presented as practice for the SAT. We were actually surprised when we were informed that he’d made Commended, because we truly thought it was just a practice test and had not realized there were awards associated with it. Considering how many other parents were immigrants like ourselves and products of non-American educational systems, I wonder how many were just as ill-informed as we were. It’s hard to know exactly what PSAT scores reflect.</p>
<p>Osdad…your kids’ school is nuts. LOL</p>
<p>That is crazy (again, who makes these decisions??)</p>
<p>My kids’ school also takes the PSAT as practice as sophomores, BUT they take it again as juniors. Seriously, osdad’s kid’s school is just nuts for not having juniors take the PSAT.</p>
<p>I would have totally made a scene if my kids’ school did that.</p>
<p>After much pleading, I finally got our kids’ school to notify sophomore parents (after PSAT scores were sent home) to educate them about the PSAT and state cutoffs, and the PSAT ramifications when they take it again junior year. How hard is it to send a little email! But, they are doing it now.</p>
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It puts the bragging in perspective <gg>.</gg></p>
<p>I’m stunned by the stories of school districts not offering or severely restricting the number of students who can take the PSAT. Let’s not forget that the PSAT/NMS program can mean “real” money to prospective college students, (Southern Cal promises a 50% tuition reduction to NMSs who list USC as their no.1 choice. I hear of others, Alabama?, give a full ride). If you have a student who could possibly qualify as a NMS, your school district could be denying you the opportunity at some serious financial aid.</p>
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I see what you mean, particularly in the thread about privately schooled students.</p>
<p>Vinch, I’m not sure why you are stunned. Public high schools only have so much money. To give the PSAT to a student body and face it, it’s really about the scholarship contest since PSAT/SAT is not required of all college bound students, is an easy budget cut to make or to never implement. Furthermore at least 6 states I think are now requiring the ACT as a component of NCLB so those schools already fund a test that is mandatory and can be used in college applications. If outstanding students want to take the PSAT to enter the scholarship competition they are normally welcome to take it at a school that offers it and the cost is neglible. Schools aren’t “denying” anybody anything as any kid can participate. The point is if the schools are funding the activity or not. The NMS program is a great program, but it is not essential in the school budgets. We are fortunate that our system still offers the PSAT at no cost to all students and all are welcome to take it or not. Those that make the cut-off and wish to continue do have to drive a distance to find an SAT testing center, but most do in hopes of the scholarship. 80% of our kids go on to college but less than 1% actually receive NM scholarships in the end. As a taxpayer, if we were looking for budget cuts I suspect this (PSAT) would be at the top of the list. And Garland, I agree that there has been an increase or ignorant posts lately. So sad.</p>
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<p>Juniors? Mine took it as a sophomore. (Was also the only NMF at her school, but the point is, all the sophomores took it; juniors now take it a second time there, but she took it only as a sophomore.)</p>
<p>Deja Quote:
I try to find out which state they are from. It makes a difference to me! </p>
<p>Ihs Quote:
Why do you care? </p>
<p>Deja quote…It puts the bragging in perspective <gg>. </gg></p>
<p>Knowing what a state a person is from does not reveal that person’s actual score. My son is from a relatively low PSAT cut-off state, but my son had a high PSAT score - high enough for any state. And, the other NMF kids from his school also had high scores…none were near the cut-off.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t be right for you to sniff…oh he’s from Alabama, no wonder he made NMF.</p>
<p>BTW…that would be like sniffing “you are a URM” whenever you hear that some minority student got accepted into an Ivy. You’d be assuming that the URM only made it because of diversity standards. That’s not fair to the many high achieving URMs</p>
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<p>I cannot agree with you more. Testing experience + personal temperament are huge factors in test outcomes. (End of hijack. ;))</p>
<p>Quote:
One thing I don’t like about limiting the juniors that take the PSAT is that it artificially changes who the top 1% in the state are. </p>
<p>epiphany quote: Juniors? Mine took it as a sophomore. (Was also the only NMF at her school, but the point is, all the sophomores took it; juniors now take it a second time there, but she took it only as a sophomore.) </p>
<p>When did this happen? NM Corp only counts junior year scores for NM Competition (unless the kid graduates after junior year). The sophomore PSAT is just a “practice” of sorts for the real competition in the junior year.</p>
<p>I don’t understand how epiphany’s D could make NSF taking the test as a soph, unless she was graduating a year early. Don’t the NM people clearly state that the test must be taken junior year for the scholarship competition?</p>
<p>(oops, cross-posted with mom2ck)</p>
<p>You know, both of you guys could be right about that. LOL, because her school year started so bleepin’ early, it probably felt as if soph year (when she did take her first one, which I thought was also her last, but am willing to stand corrected on that!) rolled into jr. yr. almost seamlessly, LOL.</p>
<p>By contrast, I think the publics in my area don’t offer a sophomore opportunity, just a junior year, at least that’s all I’ve heard from my students.</p>
<p>Vince - I agree with you that this is a scary stat and not good for the state of education in our country. And I would also agree, the %'s are worse than they seem. We had 6 NMSF’s last year out of a class of 72 in the private school my daughter attends. With a number of schools with multiple NMSF’s the % with none is alarming.</p>
<p>I believe it does go back to curriculum, a school’s culture, work ethics, etc.</p>
<p>As to funding, I don’t believe one should blame the lack of the test being taken / offered on inadequate school budgets. Schools do have the choice of having the student pay the small fee to take the test (its what we do). There really is no reason why schools should not offer this to students who want to take it and let the students / families pay the small fee</p>
<p>^ agreed. (In our area, you better believe the parents are paying for this test in public schools.)</p>