<p>Gob. No one is buying your rhetoric and that is all it is. You are cherry picking schools for comparison. There is nothing magic about being 14, 15, 18 etc in the rankings. All of the top 50 are quality institutions. As discussed in another post, there are more than a handful of top notch LAC’s with white populations well above 70% and Asian populations of 3, 4 and 5% just like W&L. Why aren’t you bashing Bates, or any of the others that lack the diversity of Vassar and others? The law of averages says that there will be some with more minority representation and some with less.</p>
<p>Then, we get a post from an insider that tells a credible story and you accuse them of being some sort of internet ■■■■■. Come on. Really.</p>
<p>Why are you so angry?</p>
<p>Once again, I challenge you to make a call to the admissions office. Ask them all of your questions and see how they respond? </p>
<p>I can guarantee that there is no conspiracy at W&L to keep minorities out. For some reason you came to a conclusion with no facts at hand. </p>
<p>Call the school, get some facts, then come back and report to us your findings.</p>
<p>Lighten up kid. You are going to give yourself a heart attack at such a young age.</p>
<p>Again, you are not doing your research on the common data sets. W&L actually enrolled 24 Asian students or 5% of the entering class in 2013. You cherry picked a few schools that enrolled Asians at a much higher rate. You failed to mention those that were very similar to W&L. Here are just a few figures for entering Asian freshman that compare with W&L (not all are 2013 figures as not all schools appear to have posted CDS for 2013) --West Point 5%, Grinnell 6%, Haverford 6%, Davidson 6%, Colby 5%, Wake Forest 5%, Bates 4%, Middlebury 7%, Carleton 8%, Bowdoin 8% and the list could goes on. These are all top tier schools that admit Asians at similar rates to W&L. </p>
<p>The other thing that skews the W&L white statistics higher than the other schools you mentioned is that W&L has almost no non-resident aliens compared to many other schools with 5 to 10% in that category.</p>
<p>Just because some admit at rates of 15% to 25% (your cherry picked examples) does not mean that all do (not mathematically possible).</p>
<p>I would just like to point out that as of this morning, W&L has password protected its viewbook which is the source of all this information. Coincidence? I dont think so. They realized that this info shows their racial bias, so they have password protected it in order to prevent any further investigation/controversy. This info has been publicly available for the last 5 years, and all of a sudden they decide to password protect it. Please dont tell me that is simply a coincidence
wlpoppa, you are incredibly biased towards W&L and you just cannot accept that your beloved school is not as noble as you want to believe. What exactly is your connection to the school?</p>
<p>Wlpoppa, I dont know why you are focusing so much on asians. yes, all those schools you mentioned have a relatively low asian population (still higher than W&L) but they sure as heck don’t have a white population of 87%. W&L stands alone in that regard, and I am 100% certain that no other top 20 LAC (or probably even top 50 LAC) has a white population of 87%.
And the fact that W&L has the opportunity to increase its diversity but CHOOSES not to is what I find troubling and is the reason why I feel that racial bias plays a role</p>
<p>Remarkable. You continue to look for ways to spin the facts. Maybe, just maybe, W&L password protected this data to make sure people don’t jump to stupid conclusions based on partial data sets??? Do any other schools present this data? I have found none. Maybe they too don’t want people to jump to silly conclusions based on partial data sets. </p>
<p>Have you called admissions yet to have an adult conversation or are you going to continue to making absurd accusations? Why are you so angry?</p>
<p>…and the ratio of African Americans at many of the schools I listed previously is in the same range as W&L. Again, W&L has very few non resident aliens and students with unknown ethnicity which skews the numbers compared to other schools with much larger percentages in these two categories. </p>
<p>I have no connection to this college, but the sensational, capital letters in the original title got my attention. After the recent events in California, I wondered what could have happened.
GB, your profile states you are 15 years old. What do you seek to accomplish with your accusations here? Your statistical analysis raises some questions, but is this the way to get them answered?
You seem to be a bright and logical student looking at two parameters: numbers and race, and you are making some assumptions based on them. However, humans arent so simple. We have qualities that cant be measured, and somehow, through essays and other aspects of a college application, these can be conveyed. I think it is fair to assume that every highly selective college gets plenty of high scoring applicants to choose from, and so considers a variety of qualifications.
If you are indeed 15 years old, please indulge me in a history lesson about where such reasoning might possibly lead. The applicants and the college are being judged only on the basis of race and numbers, not any other qualifications or circumstances. Through one measurement: test scores, you generalize that one race is more academically qualified than another. Something similar to that has been done in the past when a notorious leader assigned qualities to certain races and made some “logical” decisions about them. How did that work out?
50 years ago, one of the greatest leaders in our time proposed that people judge others not by race but by character. Why was his message so important?<br>
Its good to be skilled in data analysis and logic, but logic alone doesnt always lead to good decisions. Its great that you wish to fight injustice in the world, but there are many ways to do this, some which might make you a more competitive candidate for college than attacking one. Don’t forget that it is OK to be a kid and have some (sensible) fun too.</p>
<p>You might want to tone down your accusation against W&L. Although I find the admission data disturbing it is not the complete information. I have asked my father to inquire with Admissions about the admission rate discrepancy as that is your strongest argument.</p>
<p>My father and I have looked at the data and on the surface may look bad for W&L but the data may be deceiving. You are aware that W&L admits a much higher percentage of its Early Decision (ED) applicants than its Regular Decision (RD) admission rate. ED applicants are admitted at nearly 45% and account for nearly 40% of the incoming class. It could be that Asians and other minorities do not apply ED which could account for the admission rate discrepancy. Since we do not have this data, you should stop calling W&L racist. </p>
<p>I have a hard time thinking that W&L is racist because I visited the school two weeks ago and my contacts with the students was good. And would a racist school have a student exchange program with Spelman and Moorhouse College? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Goblue you should take a step back and wait for more information.</p>
<p>Wlpoppa</p>
<p>You should have taken your own advise and contacted admissions to clear this matter up. You would agree that getting to the bottom of Goblue’s allegation is in the best interest of all.</p>
<p>I went to the common data set for the top 50 LAC’s. While there are many that have enrolled less than 60% whites in the freshman classes over the past few years (ie: lots of diversity), there is a large number that are less diverse than the general population in the US. After throwing out the totals for ethnicity unknown and non resident aliens, there were several schools with white freshman enrollment above 83%. These were W&L, Bates, Dickinson, Sewanee, Centre and Bucknell. There were several others that were between 77% and 83% including Kenyon, Whitman, Union, Holy Cross and Macalaster. Then another tranche between 70% and 77% including Haverford, USMA, Oberlin, Middlebury and Carleton. There were numerous others between 63% and 70%.</p>
<p>So, as you can see, there are many, many top 50 LAC’s that are less diverse than the US population as a whole. And, there are many that have more than 80% whites entering the freshman class (22% of the top 50 have more than 80% white in the freshman class after adjusting for unknown ethnicity and non resident aliens). So, if you are going to bash W&L, you might need to start bashing these other colleges as well. But, I don’t think that would be wise.</p>
<p>The facts are the facts. As I have been saying all along. Some will have more diversity and some will have less. Simply the law of numbers.</p>
<p>Rl. I have no need to contact admissions. I do not believe W&L is racist as alleged by Go. If he/she has some questions, he/she should contact the school rather than make baseless inflammatory accusations.</p>
<p>Heard back from Admissions via email and these are the following reasons stated why minority acceptance rate lower than whites:</p>
<ol>
<li>Quality of Minority applicants are low, even Asians compared to overall applicant pool,</li>
<li>Of the high Quality Minorities, very few show any interest in W&L, ie. no visits, contacts, interviews or any other showing of desire to attend W&L. Apparently W&L admissions puts premium value on desire to attend. If you are highly qualified for admission but show no interest in attending, admissions will not select you.</li>
<li>Financial Need is calculated in admission decision. Minorities have higher financial need thus lower admit rate.</li>
<li>W&L does not compromise quality of its incoming class for diversity for diversity sake. So if you are a minority applicant with subpar qualifications being a minority will not give you any advantage in the admission process like many other schools.</li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks rl. Sounds like a reasonable explanation.</p>
<p>I do not believe in lowering standards in school or the workplace for the sake of diversity. If you do that, you end up with reverse discrimination. The most qualified applicants should get the acceptance letters regardless of race, creed or color.</p>
<p>Goblue,
Based on your stats of 3.3GPA and 30ACT, you probably won’t get in even though you are URM based on what admissions stated about inquiry of low Asian/minority acceptance rate.
W&L gives little to no weight for URM status. Seems a bit wrong but this is what I have been informed. Don’t think you can call W&L racist based on this information. Good luck in your other applications to schools.</p>
<p>I disagree with you. W&L should give some weight to URM status because diversity is important. By the way, the most qualified applicants do not get the acceptance letters at W&L. W&L will not admit a qualified minority if he or she does not show interest beyond submitting an application per admissions. At W&L showing desire to attend is given quite a bit of weight in the admission process. So a more qualified minority can be denied admission in favor of a less qualified Caucasian if the Caucasian showed more interest and desire to attend. </p>
<p>This explain why ED applicants have over 45% chance of acceptance. This is counter to your belief that the best qualified applicants should be granted admission “regardless of race, creed, or color.” IF W&L can give weight for desire to attend it should give some weight to URM status to foster more diversity.</p>
<p>The admissions office will only give you the answer that portrays them in the best light… They will never admit to any sort of bias even if it exists…
As for the reasons they provided… I call BS on some of them.
First, “W&L doesn’t want to compromise the quality of the university by accepting unqualified minorites” The reality is that almost every college in the country does this to some degree. Even at Harvard you will find that most urms are less qualified than their white counterparts. Is Harvard comprising the quality of their university by accepting a first generation Hispanic with a 30 act over a upper class white student with a 34? Not at all!
Every college in the country deals with this issue and still finds a way to have much more diversity than W&L, so I’m calling bs on this one. They need to take factors such as urm and first gen and low income into more consideration.
Basically they are favoring the rich white kid who has had every opportunity growing up. This student Is able to get tutoring in order to get the sat score that W&L looks for , and he is able to afford the trip down to w&l. while for instance the Hispanic first gen applicant is unable to afford sat prep and unable to afford the trip to virginia so he is automatically rejected! I’m not saying that W&L should accept unqualified urms, but every other college is in the same boat and they still manage to fill their classes with urms who eventually graduate so I don’t see how W&L could possibly be having such a hard time. I still feel that there is a facial bias, and take everything that the admissions dept tells you with a grain of salt. They are careful about what they say to avoid a possible lawsuit ( which has already happened at other schools)</p>
<p>I obviously meant to write “racial bias” instead of “facial bias” in that last post… Although from the class of 2017 facebook group, everyone at W&L seems to be extremely attractive, so admissions may actually have a facial bias as well!! who wants to call admissions about this?</p>
<p>go blue. “They are careful about what they say to avoid a possible lawsuit ( which has already happened at other schools)”–are you talking about the reverse discrimination lawsuits??</p>
<p>Rl. Yes, showing an interest does make a difference at W&L. What a novel concept? Picking someone that is interested in you versus someone that is not. Hmmm…seems to make common sense. And, anyone can show interest without coming to Lexington. I am sure the admissions office would be fine with verbal/online interest if a prospective student was unable to afford a trip to Lexington to visit in person. What you are talking about in terms of urm’s is in essence reverse discrimination. I don’t believe in discrimination of any type.</p>
<p>Great, well by your own logic, asians should be represented higher than all other groups at W&L… At every college where they do not consider race and admit students based only on academic merit, asians are represented at a MUCH higher rate. Some examples that come to mind are caltech and UC Berkely, both with have asian populations of over 40%, which somewhat contrasts W&Ls 3% asian population.</p>
<p>and no, i was saying that if W&L admissions office actually admitted to any bias against minorities they would likely face a lawsuit.
i was referring to the fact that many schools have already faced lawsuits for discriminating against asian applicants, who are much more qualified yet accepted at lower rates at many ivies</p>
<p>When the W&L Admissions Office says they will not compromise the quality of the incoming class “for diversity for diversity’s sake” that is a long way from saying they aren’t interested in increasing the diversity of the student body. Harvard won’t either. Both schools are likely to admit a minority student of promise even if she, say, has an ACT of 30 vs. 34 for a white, wealthy student. That’s not necessarily compromising quality. However, I agree that Washington and Lee is a very white place. I wish more top students of all colors and backgrounds could look past that veneer, though, to see the real beauty of the place. Washington and Lee’s student body seems to me to be open and welcoming to people of all groups. (parenthetically, can we PLEASE stop using standardized test scores as a proxy for admissions worthiness? We don’t have admissions exams in this country. It is fairly well established that the only thing SAT’s predict well is first-year performance, not graduation rates or final class rank or anything else of that sort. Test scores may correlate with being a good student, but not all eventual college stars had top SAT’s, and they don’t predict much of anything).
According to the Common Data Set, here are the factors W&L considers “very important” in an applicant: academic rigor, class rank, extracurriculars, character/personal qualities. Here are the factors they consider “important”: GPA, standardized tests, recommendations. Here are the factors they “consider”: essay, interview, talent/ability, first gen college, legacy, geographical residence, state residency, racial/ethnic status, volunteer work, work experience, applicant interest.
As to the importance of applicant interest and the alleged disadvantage it imposes on a lower-income student, if an applicant were to find out the name of his admissions officer and send a nice email stating that due to family finances, he is unable to travel to W&L, but he loves the school and would like to sign up for an alumni interview (which is available to anyone who is interested), believe me, you would get a nice check mark next to “interest”. But, you would have to be sincerely interested to take that trouble, right?
I go back to the original poster’s original post: you love W&L, but are concerned about the lack of diversity. I feel exactly the same way. And I am thrilled to have a son at the school. The one thing I feel it most lacks is a student body that “looks” like the rest of America. But that’s it. Everything else about the place is superb. I heartily encourage you to investigate the school for yourself. If you are academically qualified (which means you are excelling in the toughest course of study your school offers and have an intellectual curiosity that’s a little more intense than a lot of your friends), and if you truly love the school, I’ll bet there would be a place for you there. And they could REALLY use your presence, too.<br>
I’m afraid I really couldn’t speak to your concerns about it being out of your normal environment given its ethnic imbalance. But I’d encourage you to seek out people like yourself and ask them for their honest opinion. Perhaps you could ask that admissions officer if there is a group on campus where you could find some fellow travelers and see if you could get an email address or two from current students. Their input and insight would be a lot more useful to you than kibbitzing like this from people who really don’t come from your experience.
Good luck, and please don’t give up on W&L yet!</p>