<p>Well, one difference is that if a fraternity is banned, there are other fraternities to join. </p>
<p>If someone wants to be in a marching band, there are no other options if you ban the marching band. </p>
<p>However, the central point is to recognize that fraternities are at best social clubs; other activities on campus are more about perfecting a skill. In the case of the marching band, the pursuit of excellence in music is certainly more aligned with the mission statement of a university. While fraternities claim that they foster leadership, I think this is highly debatable.</p>
<p>I’m also interested in people’s reactions to my idea: to ban the pledging system. Almost all the fraternity deaths I’ve read about have been to pledges during some kind of hazing ritual.</p>
<p>I say we should also ban military boot camp. Not to mention “Beast Barracks” or whatever they call the first year at the various military academies. It is the epitome of an extended hazing ritual. And the participants are in training to become hired killers.</p>
<p>“I say we should also ban military boot camp. Not to mention “Beast Barracks” or whatever they call the first year at the various military academies. It is the epitome of an extended hazing ritual. And the participants are in training to become hired killers.”</p>
<p>And so the fraternity members are in training to become…</p>
<p>I think it’s the same issue so whatever would happen to a frat should happen to the marching band. If it’s kick out the offending students, remove the organization, whatever.</p>
<p>As someone who once was a freshman in a marching band, I can say for sure that the newbies are quite pliable and easily influenced by the older kids. If the organization is strong from the top downward, and the student leaders buy into and propagate the ethical and pure mission established by the adult leaders, the young ones will assimilate this culture as well and will pass it down to the incoming students in the years afterward. It’s no different from organizations which are corrupt at the top-these attitudes are eventually assimilated by the youth.</p>
<p>So in the case of a marching band, clean house. It starts with the faculty and then the graduate assistants, on down to the drum majors and other student leaders. Eventually, you establish a new culture, which as long as it is guided by strong faculty leadership, will perpetuate itself. The same could happen with fraternities if their adult leadership would rid itself of some of the old notions of what constitutes the purpose of “pledgeship” and hold the senior members accountable for modeling and enforcing the new philosophy.</p>
<p>As for banning “pledging” many groups have already done that, or at least revamped it. Still local groups in groups that have banned pledging still get in trouble for hazing. About a half dozen fraternities have banned drinking in the house, but there are still alcohol violations. It takes vigilance at nationals and dedicated members to make it work. </p>
<p>Nrdsb4 is right about cleaning house-which is why the national organizations are quick to close chapters that do not meet their standards. Not all houses are closed for hazing. some are closed when the group of people no longer represent the org values, if the group has too few members, if they are in trouble for drugs or alcohol.</p>
<p>Speaking for my own S alone, he isn’t in training to become anything in particular through his house. But he has in fact, experienced personal growth and–gasp!–in leadership through his house. Deny it though you willl. </p>
<p>I am not actually a fan of Greek organizations, per se. But I have seen positives up close and personal, both when I was a student and now, for my own kid. As has been repeated ad nauseum here on these threads, not all houses at all schools are the same, by any stretch of the imagination, and it is foolish to generalize.</p>
<p>BTW, S’s school doesn’t allow pledging until sophomore year, which seems like a good idea to me. I tend to agree iwth the whole “banning of pledge term” idea.</p>
<p>"However, the central point is to recognize that fraternities are at best social clubs; other activities on campus are more about perfecting a skill. "</p>
<p>Is it possible or even likely that black and white Greek organizations are significantly different?</p>
<p>“Revamped it”? There is a big difference between no pledging and revamped pledging. With no pledging there isn’t a superior-subordinate relationship. That is the point.</p>
<p>And I have never heard of anyone banning pledging. The only frat with no pledging at my alma mater never had pledging.</p>
<p>Lambda Chi Alpha is one group I can think of off the top of my head that revamped the program. It still is a new member orientation program, which is still essential. Instead of pledging the focus is on learning the values and ideals of the organization. The program was created with a psychologist (and brother) in connection with values-based recruiting program. </p>