<p>Re: #40</p>
<p>The point of #39 is the show that there exists a more than five semester long sequence of major prerequisites.</p>
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<p>Usually, these “loopholes” in the “four year graduation pledge” plans are the following:</p>
<ul>
<li>Student needs remedial English or math courses.</li>
<li>Student fails to follow the course plan for his/her major or changes major late.</li>
<li>Student takes less than the normal full-time number of credit units per semester or quarter.</li>
<li>Student fails courses.</li>
<li>Student fails to pay tuition and fees on time.</li>
</ul>
<p>That may be why several CSUs that offer such “four year graduation pledge” programs have four year graduation rates under 20% – lots of students need remedial work, or attend less than full time for various reasons.</p>
<p>Sorry, ucb, I was responding to Vandenschlutte post #38, and kind of cross posted with yours. I was trying to make the same point. </p>
<p>It appears that U Mich has a similar sequence for at least one of their physics major programs as well.</p>
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<p>I didn’t notice any class that had a 7th semester prerequisite chain. Can you point out which one you noticed does have one? Those divisions are not all required. For instance, you don’t “focus” in construction and you don’t have to take all the classes listed under “construction.” You simply have to take 3 classes from somewhere on that list. Those divisions are to make it easier to see what classes you might want to take depending on where you want to focus.</p>
<p>The physics looks like Calc 1 > Calc 2 > E&M > Waves, Heat, and Light > Modern Physics > Quantum Mechanics which is 6 semesters. I didn’t look at this one very carefully so there might be a longer chain but that’s the longest one I found. For the two electives, Optics and Dynamical Processes in Biophysics only require Waves, Heat, and Light.</p>
<p>Here’s the course descriptions for Physics: [url=<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics/academics/undergraduateprogram/courses]Courses[/url”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics/academics/undergraduateprogram/courses]Courses[/url</a>]
And here’s the requirements: [url=<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics/academics/undergraduateprogram/currentstudents/concentrationinformation]Concentration”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics/academics/undergraduateprogram/currentstudents/concentrationinformation]Concentration</a> Information<a href=“Look%20under%20professional%20physics%20plan”>/url</a></p>
<p>For a class like A&P that is required by a lot of majors, I think it’d be difficult for the university to say “this major has priority over that major.”</p>
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<p>(what is “A&P”?)</p>
<p>If the students are already declared in majors when they take the course, then they can easily prioritize enrollment by major, as well as have a very good estimate on how many students will enroll in the course.</p>
<p>However, it can be more difficult if students enter undeclared and declare major after taking that course.</p>
<p>Anatomy & Physiology? Often serves as a weed out course, I hear, so maybe it’s easier to get seats later in the sequence.</p>
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<p>Because one major is more important than another?</p>
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You could still prioritize by majors vs non-majors, which is common in some courses. Also, some majors may need the course early in their studies while others may be ok with having it later on.</p>
<p>^ This is done to a degree at my son’s school. Certain classes are closed to students outside the e’school for a period of time, opening very late in registration to other students. Conversely, there was a class my son wanted to take to fulfill a humanities requirement but as an e’school student he was locked out, giving preference to students in the Comm school. I’m sure there are other examples, but obviously they are making a distinct effort to get students priority to get their classes needed to complete their degree.</p>
<p>The University of Washington has a whole web page addressing getting into closed classes most of it particular to their registration system:</p>
<p>[UW</a> Advising - Tips for Getting into Closed/Restricted Courses](<a href=“http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/registration/tgicrc_autumn.php]UW”>http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/registration/tgicrc_autumn.php)</p>
<p>Persistence, including attending the class until spaces open up, is one of the keys.</p>
<p>When one of my son’s was interested in Musical Theater, he thought that maybe he could cobble together a program with the courses he wanted at schools that did not have this major. It turned out to be not so easy because in order to get certain courses that are offered on a limited basis, one has to be a major, have certain seniority and then it’s first come, first served. By being a Musical Theater major at college offering this course of study, he way was paved for the courses he wanted. At his school, he wouldn’t have had much of a chance to take a number of such courses without being in a major that had priority for enrollment in them. THey were ALWAYS full by the time they opened to the general student population.</p>
<p>So it is at my other son’s state univerisity. You want certain courses, you had better be in the program, or in some cases the specific school that sponsors those courses. Even then, you had better be first in line unless you have seniority as all of those things come into play as to who gets a seat in taht course.</p>
<p>My daughter is at a medium sized state supported university. She was a physics/Japanese double major her first two years. She had scheduling conflicts four of her first five semesters. She went directly to the professors and was able to take all the classes. Her first year, she missed forty percent of her honors physics lectures. I would not have been able to pull it off, but that kid seems to be able to do just about anything she puts her mind to. She starts her senior year tomorrow.</p>
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Some professors would have failed her for missing that much. It’s good to know the particular professor’s policy before attempting such a stunt.</p>
<p>D’s school does prioritize by major. Not saying that one is more important than the other, but some are simply more inflexible. A&P is a prereq for a lot of course, but a bio major, once through it, could take histology instead of pathophys if pathophys is full. A nursing or rad tech major? No. Their whole program is sequenced from the day they step on campus. </p>
<p>Doing things that way, however, does not eliminate problems. Nursing majors, for example, need the classes, but not any particular lab times. They tend to take the ones they want, leaving other students with less desirable times. It’s really a problem for athletes, who may be leaving for games and can’t take late labs. But, can you imagine the outcry if athletes got priority registration?</p>
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Calculus I > Calculus II > Calculus III > Differential Equations > Numerical Methods (CEE 303) > Hydrology (CEE 421) is at least 6. </p>
<p>I’m still not sure what point you are trying to make here. Do you mean to suggest that a student could decide to switch to engineering or physics in the middle of sophomore year (in semester 4) and still finish in a total of 8 semesters?</p>
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<p>Calc 3 and DiffEq have the same level of prerequisites, both require only Calc 2. That chain you mentioned is only 5 long.</p>
<p>The point I’m trying to make is that missing a class one semester should not force you to stay for longer than 8 semesters. There is some slight amount of flexibility.</p>
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Ok, so you’re jamming students up with simultaneously taking courses typically taken in sequence, however, you’re not really taking into account that some courses are offered only in either spring or fall. The reality is that missing a class one semester could very well set you back one or even two semesters.</p>
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<p>At my alma mater, they do.</p>
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<p>For CEE those 5 level chains are all classes offered every fall and every winter (the page I posted said that CEE 212 is only in winter but I checked the fall registration and it is offered this fall), and I can confirm that this is also the case with EECS and IOE at Michigan. I can check Physics but I am pretty sure it’s going to be the case there. The only one where this might be a problem is ChemE because the department tries to force people to stick to the sample schedule very closely. </p>
<p>If you want to look for cases where 1 semester of deviation will cause 2 semesters of delayed graduation at some university, I’m sure you will be able to find it. However, these are not common.</p>