<p>My D goes to a large university and is a Public Health major with an interest in going on to PA school. Last January she changed her major from Biology to Public Health. For the PH major, like all majors, she needs to take certain courses and in a certain sequence. This coming semester she needed to take Anatomy and Physiology II so that she could continue her course work in the correct sequence to ensure graduating on time (which at this point is one semester later than planned due to the change in major).</p>
<p>At her college, the students register for courses by a lottery system. So they "draw" a time to register with the help of an advisor. My D did not luck out on her lottery number and was one of the later students to register. When she did, of the two A&P II classes, one was full and the other one overlapped another class that was on her schedule and was non-negotiable. She was put on the waitlist for the other A&P class.</p>
<p>Sooo...we had to register her for a class near home this summer, at the cost of 1600 dollars plus parking and gas, so that she could stay on track. Frustratingly, around mid August, she was notified that she got off the waitlist and into the class at her school. Too little, too late. </p>
<p>Here is my question. What is the responsibility of the university to provide enough seats in classes for students that are in majors that require those classes? And what are the rights of the student if they don't? I just sent her tuition in for this semester and I am paying the same amount that I would have paid if she got a seat in the A&P II class that she needed.</p>
<p>It seems to me that we should be refunded the cost of that class if, due to no fault of her own, my D was unable to take it.</p>
<p>Sorry that happened to your daughter.Didn’t her school have some kind of force/add type of thing she could have talked to her advisor or department about in this kind of situation? My son had a class he needed to stay on track in his engineering major(also at a large university) but he was very persistent in making sure he got off the waitlist and got the class.</p>
<p>As far as I know, no, they didn’t. If they had, she would have known since she was VERY persistent with the advisor about the necessity of taking the class. The consequences of having to take the class in the summer included her inability to work which added about 2000 to the expenses incurred. I want to email someone there and ask them what the deal is and why they think they can get away with this stuff but I wondered if anyone else ever faced this situation.</p>
<p>Another frustrating part of it was that the other A&P II class that had seats but didn’t fit her schedule only overlapped a lab class that she was taking by 15 minutes. She has been in many lab classes and knew that they never, ever go the full time and wanted to sign up for that A&P class. The advisor told her she absolutely couldn’t because the computer wouldn’t let it happen due to the conflicting times. The computer overrides common sense, apparently.</p>
<p>Did she try contacting the professor of the course? A lot of times they have discretion over overrides and possibly could have let her in if she explained the situation. Many do that as they know there will inevitably be drops from the course.</p>
<p>I often hear of students at large universities not being able to get courses they need. I’m not sure this was an actual surprise for your D, since I’m sure she wasn’t the only one running into such difficulty. I think taking the course over the summer was a smart move, and if anything it will free up some time during the year since she won’t have to take those credits. Are you saving money by having her attend that school? If so, just look at the summer expense as part of choosing the larger school. This can happen at smaller schools as well, and I think when kids change majors it creates the most problems.</p>
<p>Well, we’re saving some money over some other choices and spending more money over other choices so I guess it’s a draw. My point is that a university provides an education at a cost to the student. The university also determines the required courses for the major, knows how many kids are in the majors that require that class and set the limit on the classes. It seems to me that the consumer should be able to expect that the college provide their end of the deal if we are providing ours (the money!). And if they can’t provide it, they should make restitution.</p>
<p>I don’t know if my D tried to contact the professor directly. I think that she trusted the information that the advisor gave her. I think students should be able to trust what the advisor tells them. Otherwise, well…what the heck? All of this was going on around finals time and she was stressed.</p>
<p>As far as her changing her major, that wasn’t an issue with this particular problem. We already knew that she will have to extend an extra semester. Her inability to take this class would have, potentially pushed her into a sixth semester. </p>
<p>I recently graduated my master’s program at a local college. I had a few similar issues at the end on my courses. I had to have a thesis presentation at the very end of my program but the people who do that were not available in the summer, which was when I needed to do it in order to graduate and go up a step in my salary at work. I finally talked them into allowing me to do it in the spring, before I took my last class so that everything would be complete in August. If I hadn’t, it would have cost me about 12000 dollars in lost pay. I sometimes think that colleges love when students need to drag out the process because it ensure more money in their pockets.</p>
<p>If something similar happens again, maybe they can just fool the computer. Sign up for one class in the regular manner and ask professor of 2nd class if the 2nd class can be listed in the computer as ‘independent study’ with no set time. In reality, she would attend the two regularly scheduled classes. If the college administration & at least one of the two profs involved would allow it anyway. My kid’s college offers independent study with professors.</p>
<p>It seems to me that one problem is the lottery system. Seniors needing a class would be more desperate than sophomores who might be able to fit it in later. Majors needing a class should get priority over students who might just be taking it for personal interest. Putting everyone in the same boat and leaving it up to chance seems rather unfair. If you are planning to discuss the matter with the academic dean, that’s where I’d go with it.</p>
<p>My D is running in to this same problem as a Freshman at a large state school. It is precisely the reason I had lobbied for a small liberal arts college where advisors ‘take care’ of students and ensure they get needed classes. My husband had the opposite philosophy, arguing that the skills needed to get a needed schedule (persistence, persuasion and compromise) are some of the most important ones learned in college. Her inability to secure some courses meant she had to peruse the vast assortment of electives and choose some courses that will at least satisfy some of the arcane general education requirements. I agree the colleges need to do more to ensure that students are able to enroll in courses required for their major. If they are unable to meet the demand they have an obligation to reduce enrollment or hire additional lecturers.</p>
<p>I don’t see how the university owes you anything. There are two sections of the class available, and in fact, your D got off the waitlist into one of them. Thus your argument that there weren’t enough seats isn’t valid.</p>
<p>And why on earth should anyone refund you the cost of a course that your D voluntarily chose to take over the summer? </p>
<p>You sound frustrated, and I appreciate that. Maybe the silver lining is that by putting in the extra work over the summer, now your D will be more “on track” in her major and will be able to get a seat in those upper level classes she needs.</p>
<p>Some schools do offer a “four year graduation guarantee”. DD is will be a sophomore at UMN-TC where as a freshman she elected to participate in the guarantee program. This ensures that if she does her part by completing an appropriate number of credits each semester, declaring her major by the end of sophomore year, etc., the University guarantees that the classes she needs to complete her degree will be available when she needs them.</p>
<p>Of course, these “guarantees” have many loopholes that the school could wiggle through if they were so inclined … but at least it gives the student a stronger argument to use with their adviser.</p>
<p>At my kids’ big public state u’s, registration for classes goes by seniority. The students who have completed the most credit hours get first shot at class selection. That seems fair to me.</p>
<p>At Carnegie Mellon, my son had to sit on the waitlist for a couple of classes, but luckily because he’d been told places nearly always opened up he didn’t take the class in the summer, he just assumed that sooner or later he’d get into the class, so he attended and did homework until enough people dropped the class. I think this is a fairly common scenario, it’s too bad your daughter didn’t know it.</p>
<p>While registration by seniority makes sense, there are cases where even a freshman or sophomore needs to get into a particular class because they have a 4-year sequence of sequential classes needed to graduate on time. So if for some reason a bunch of seniors want to take the 2nd year class, that screws up the sophomores who need it. So, there needs to be some priority or override ability for majors whose graduation schedule would be impacted by not being able to get into a particular class.</p>
<p>To the OP, will your D take something else instead now? Maybe something she wants to take for fun?</p>
<p>Is this a public U? If so, the university is not to blame. The taxpayers are. For more than 3 decades, voters all over this country have sent a consistent message: Cut spending. We got what we wanted, and are learning the hard lesson that those tax dollars used to buy something we value.</p>