A financial aid dilemma, might be fun to read

Paying for College
1

<p>I have a bit of a dilemma here. I come from a fairly moderate income home (80k gross), but since my mom lives in a pretty big house from our previous marriage, my father pays no child support, owes 18k, and last year he had a gross income of $364. Three-hundred sixty four dollars. I see him regularly but his father (my grandfather) pays for most of his expenses. There won't be a problem with him having to fill out financial aid forms when it comes around. Nonetheless, due to my mom's pretty good income of around 80k gross, she makes just enough to where my 100% need schools may be just a little too expensive based on what the NPCs are telling me. However, my dad has told me that my wealthy grandfather, or his father, may be able to contribute some funds to my education.</p>

<p>However, my grandfather is very careful with his money. I haven't talked to him about helping me out yet, but based on what my dad has told me, my grandfather doubts whether or not I really need to go to a 4 year university, and instead go to a CC for 2 years and transfer because it would be cheaper. While if that were the case, I would not mind at all doing so. However, I have been told that for those who qualify for fairly significant merit-based and need-based aid, it can actually end up being more expensive to pay for 2 years as a transfer than 4 years, as an incoming freshman.</p>

<p>For example, if the miracle happens where I am accepted to WashU, the net price calculator has told us we'd have to pay around 12k/yr. University of Rochester would cost around 14k/yr. I am also applying to some less selective universities where I may receive significant merit aid in combination with decent need-based aid (ie. Tulane, Lehigh, Lafayette). Haven't run NPC on Lafayette yet but they seem to meet a large amount of need as well. Won't make any assumptions yet though.</p>

<p>So what I need to do is convince my grandfather that with my stats (32 act, ~3.7 UW gpa), it may be more financially ideal if I go to a 4 year university as a freshman instead of transferring to a uni after CC. Plus, with someone like me who is considering graduate school, I want to be able to get involved in research and internships and what not as soon as possible. However, if it is not a financially feasible option, I do have several in-state financial and academic safeties that can help me reach the same ends. However, I don't want to be accepted to WashU or something and not be able to go because I did not explain things properly to my grandfather. I don't think he understands the notion of need-based aid because when my father went to college he paid full freight for him since he didn't get any merit scholarships and he had a very lofty income.</p>

<p>So, just to clarify, are transfer applicants considered for need/merit based scholarships that are usually less generous than those for incoming freshman? For someone like me, can it potentially be cheaper to go to a 4 year university instead of transferring after 2 years? Keep in mind in my state, there is a special program through my high school that will let me have 2 years of CC for free. Even then, IDK if it would still be cheaper. At least on WashU's website, it says they offer a very limited amount of financial aid to transfer students.</p>

<p>I want to show him the numbers. Run the NPCs and tell him this is what the total cost would be over 4 years, and then perhaps show the cost of going to CC for 2 years and then 2 years at the uni. I don't want to lie to him, but I want to present the facts and let him draw his own conclusions. I don't think he understands the reality of college education in the 21st century with the whole concept of need-based aid and what not. I'm not trying to sound selfish, because I think he does really care about getting me a good education but through the most financially sound way possible.</p>

<p>He wants to help finance my education, but he doesn't want to unload on tens of thousands of dollars for a private school. However, my custodial parent's income (mother) is good and knocks off a huge chunk of the sticker price.</p>

<p>I'm sorry if my post was a little muddled or confusing, I am having a little trouble explaining things, or maybe I just think I am. I didn't want to come off as conceited, or selfish or anything like that. I just want him to know it could be cheaper to go to a 4 year 100% need private if I am accepted, instead of free CC for 2 years and transferring to a state U.</p>

<p>PS: Also one concern. If my grandfather does decide to contribute a raw amount each year, will that be factored in at all in our fafsa? It seems a bit silly if it does, we find a way to pay for college and in return they decide to make us pay more, LOL.</p>

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<p>A couple of things…</p>

<ol>
<li>If you have financial limitations, have you considered colleges that you can actually afford? It might be prudent to include those rather than rely on your grandparent to pay. That might happen, and it might not.</li>
</ol>

<p>Plus…if your grandparent gives YOU money for college the first year, that money will need to be reflected on your financial aid applications the FOLLOWING year.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You need to run the numbers yourself. It might actually be less expensive for you to commute to a community college for your general education courses and then complete your bachelors at a PUBLIC university in your state. </p></li>
<li><p>I don’t see you mentioning public universities and their costs in your state…at all. Why not?</p></li>
<li><p>Your mother’s income will be used to determine your family contribution…but really, the MORE important number is what she can actually PAY each year. And whether the colleges meet full need.</p></li>
<li><p>Look at the numbers of transfer students places like Wash U actually TAKE. It is a very low number, and a very low %age of transfer applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>For need based aid…there are schools that do meet full need for transfer students. But you need to check. There are schools that meet full need for incoming freshmen, but NOT for transfer students.</p></li>
<li><p>The best merit aid is for incoming freshmen, not for transfer students.</p></li>
<li><p>You need to check the policies regarding merit aid as it relates to need based aid. At MANY places, if you receive a merit award, it actually reduces your financial need…and your need based aid is reduced accordingly. There are some schools that allow stacking of merit and need based awards, but not that many. You need to figure out if YOUR colleges will reduce your need based aid award IF you get merit aid. You might not actually be able to get both.</p></li>
<li><p>None do the colleges on your list above have guaranteed merit awards. You might get one, and you might not.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>My in-state safeties are MOS&T and SLU. My mom is a nurse at the hospital at SLU and a special work benefit we don’t have to pay for 2/3 of the tuition costs. The resulting price will be affordable since I can commute from home. Any extra need-based aid and merit scholarship would help even more too.</p>

<p>MOS&T gives me an automatic 8k scholarship / yr. that in addition to the need-based aid would cost pretty cheap for us 6k-7k /yr. that’s an affordable option for us too. </p>

<p>I’ll see exactly what it may cost for a transfer applicant at these unis too.</p>

<p>The thing is, there is a program in my state where I’ll get CC free first two years. I could potentially transfer to a public state university, but that would seem a bit redundant since I could go to one of my financial safeties and still pay roughly the same cost.</p>

<p>How can I actually figure out what the cost would be if I were a transfer applicant? are there calculators for that too?</p>

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<p>You need to talk to grandpa and get a multi-year commitment of amounts, etc. </p>

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<p>The calculators really don’t work for transfers. You’d need to call up the FA offices of the schools. </p>

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<p>You’re right. I’m doubting whether or not it may even be a good idea to apply to the majority of these universities. My mom told me originally that the values I got on the net price calculators from running those on Rice, Rochester, Tufts, Tulane, Lehigh, Lafayette etc were affordable. However, they still range from things like 10k-20k. I honestly don’t know how she can afford that despite what she tells me. I think I need to talk to her and have a more-indepth answer. I don’t want to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans. I don’t want to have to rely on a grandparent contribution. Even if he can contribute, we’d have to pay more due to increase in untaxed income and then he’d have to throw in more each year and that would make it all the more unappealing for him.</p>

<p>WashU can still be possible if I’m allowed to commute. The NPC projected a roughly 50k grant for us, which would cover the costs of tuition and other fees, but not room and board. I pmed WashU financial aid office to see if they would let me stay home, because at the information session they said they required all freshman to live on campus. Although, that only works if they don’t make us pay more or something if I decide to stay home. God forbid we find the way to make our options affordable.</p>

<p>I’m not necessarily ‘attracted’ to my safeties but I don’t mind going to them. SLU doesn’t have my desired major, chemical engineering, but Rolla does, but it’s my back-up plan if anything. I would rather go there for a price that my mom alone will be able to pay, instead of taking a chance and doing CC for two years for hopes of going to WashU or something. I have looked at the potential universities that offer automatic full-tuition awards. UAlabama could be an option, but how can I make up 10k residual CoA, since I’m an engineering major? If I get a job during the summer and take out the subsidized federal loans is that enough to cover the remainder? None of the other universities on the automatic full tuition list seem worth going across the country for, when I would have a perfectly fine in-state option regardless.</p>

<p>I wish I had realized what the truth was earlier in the process. My mom told me all the schools i was considering were affordable based on NPC results but I honestly have no idea how she plans to pay for it. She told me “we’ll make it work”, but I really don’t know how. I think I need to tell her the truth of the scenario so she doesn’t get all excited about the things I’ve gotten excited for. We have no savings, my father has no income and cannot contribute anything. I am perfectly fine with going to Rolla if I have to, but it’s hard to “accept” it after I’ve visited WashU and seen the beautiful campus and campus culture. It seems that’s not something I can find on a budget. I wish I did not even consider them in the first place so I don’t know what I’m “missing out on”. It’s unfortunate Missouri does not have many public engineering colleges. Of the ones we have in-state, Rolla’s not in a very exciting location and is such a male-dominated school and Mizzou is just too darn big on sports and partying. The grass looks so much greener on the other side of the Mississippi! </p>

<p>Maybe I’m just too picky. </p>

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<p>Is it better for financial aid purposes if the grandfather gifts the money his son or former daughter-in-law who then pays the OP’s university?</p>

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<p>Perhaps the grandfather could lend the money to the op, and write up loan papers. The grandfather could then gift the loan amount to the op after college graduation. </p>

<p>OP: have your mother try to save the money she thinks she could afford this year to see if it’s doable. </p>

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<p>My mom has told me she won’t really be able to save any extra money. As a nurse, she has tons of ways she can make extra cash but she’s told me she’s sort of maxed out on what she can take physically. Being 54 years old, having been a nurse for 30 years and working three/four 12 hour night shifts every week (not to mention every weekend) is enough for her. And even with that we only really have enough for monthly expenses and what not. And to be honest I don’t expect her to do any more, she’s already worked so hard to make things work by herself and she probably won’t be able to retire for a while. The thing is, my mother can’t really contribute anything, at the very least minimally. (maybe 2-3k / yr). I got a job to help pay for college several months ago, but nevertheless, if I make more money they’ll expect us to pay more money LOL.</p>

<p>If grandpa does not want to contribute, that’s fine, but we can’t really make any more concessions at home, unfortunately. MST isn’t a bad school, it’s just I can’t seem to find the incredible qualities of WashU or Rice or Rochester at a cheaper in-state public school. I’d be perfectly fine going there, but if I can find a way to make the “dream” work, I’d like to have that option available to me.</p>

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<p>ok I don’t know why you think the long winded posts might be ‘fun’ to read, whew.</p>

<p>If you make more you pay more but you are still ahead, right? Or are you going to get a welfare mentality where it is not ‘worth’ working? sheesh.</p>

<p>Also don’t regret knowing what is out there and exploring options. Even when you buy a car or tv and eventually a house you have trade offs of cost vs what you want, put on the big girl pants about it,you sound perfectly capable of doing that, you have some really good options and you seem to realize that. Also don’t make a lot of brohaha about nothing, your chances at WashU might not be that good. Also it might seem overwhelming, but you do yourself the biggest favor it see it through, in my opinion, you really need to see the acceptances and awards to know your real choices.</p>

<p>Build a spreadsheet with the college and years 1 to 4 what the costs are for all your colleges and scenarios. But be creative and make educated assumptions about the costs, you can do that and footnote it.</p>

<p>So your WASH U as transfer wouldn’t be 0 0 66 66
The WashU cost you just take from the NPC, assuming you do have to live on campus, because that’s what the aid is based on. Yes, the aid is less if you live at home. There should be some off campus estimates at Wash U webpage for years not on campus.</p>

<p>First CC and living at home is not free. There still are food costs you wouldn’t have if you were in dorm eating at Wash U that your mom wouldn’t have to be paying for. You have daily transportation costs you wouldn’t have. Of course there are books and food purchase on campus if you are there all day. You can start with the COA for the CC maybe and adjust for known differences.</p>

<p>So I don’t know that your grandfather really has to know all the ins and outs of how aid works if he just sees the raw figures. I’d assume full pay transferring to the state uni’s and worst case for privates. It makes more sense to see what you can get as freshman awards. Hopefully he can see that getting involved in research is volumes more available at a CC, that the classes are really always comparable, especially getting a start in your major, it may take longer etc. But if your mom can’t really pay anything then you are right, her ‘it will all work out’ words are empty. Insist that there be a 4 year plan, not wishes for fishes. And it does sound dicy to rely on grandpa if he in the end thinks cc is just as good or really likes to pinch a penny.</p>

<p>You can update your spreadsheet as actual awards come in. I did that for one person this year, Adjusting COA for actual costs we knew would be higher like airfare home, and adding insurance at colleges she would have to purchase it where it was not covered in coa, etc.</p>

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<p>I think that’s the best course of action - wait until I have all the awards and show my grandpa. He is the one to “pinch a penny”, and I should do some research on the kinds of transfer aid students get to universities I am looking at (including the cheapest in-state publics that offer eng degrees). I’m tempted to apply to WashU ED, but I just got an e-mail back from the financial aid office saying regardless of my financial situation I’d still be required to live on campus freshman year. Nonetheless I guess I’m not really in a good financial situation to do ED anywhere.</p>

<p>I say CC is free because there is a program in my state that completely covers CC tuition for 2 years, which I qualify for. (A+ Program). Of course I’d still be eating food at home and gas every day to commute. However, I’d rather go straight into MST or SLU, with my mother’s and my own contribution, so I can get a head start on the opportunities available at each, instead of 2 years -> WashU or something like that. They’re not bad colleges by any means, but if my grandpa understands what the potential costs could be with either route, he may be open to let me pursue interests elsewhere where I think I’d fit better. I’m not trying to ‘scam’ him or anything, but he is in fact a millionaire and his main interest is, frankly, the cheapest option.</p>

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<p>Ask your father if he could have a serious discussion with your grandfather about your college expenses, or if your relationship with your grandfather is such that you can bring up the subject. It’s great that you ve run NPCs on some schools so that you have some idea what they will expect you to pay. Not etched in stone, however. I think including several of them on your college list is just fine. </p>

<p>But most everyone should also have some affordable schools sure to accept the student on the list as well. You really cannot count on your grandfather paying your college, is the bottom line, as it’s not as though he is like a father to you in terms of direct involvement and responsibility for your expenses. I don’t think it’s a good idea to corner him, count on him, though letting him know what your options are, the whole spread and giving him the opportunity to offer up some help is fine. </p>

<p>You need to get some idea as to what your mother is willing and able to pay. Unless there are guaranteed merit awards at some schools, don’t count your chickens before they hatch in terms of counting on scholarships. It’s fine to have some “lottery tickets” for whatever reason on your list as long as you don’t lose sight of what they truly are.</p>

<p>IF your grandfather does agree to assist you, some research on how this can be done without losing aid should be done Yes, giving the money to the parents rather than the students is one solution or lending the money, with appropriate documentation and terms is another To give the money outright to the student or pay the costs directly could affect the subsequent year’s aid.</p>

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<p>Wait, what if the grandfather pays the tuition bill? Would it still count against the OP’s aid next year? Also, note that at the schools mentioned, these would not be a big amount (10K or so). </p>

<p>Also, the OP says that he has financial safeties.</p>

<p>Here are the no-loans fin aid schools: <a href=“http://urbanintellectuals.com/2013/09/25/72-no-loans-free-schools-for-low-income-students-part-21/”>http://urbanintellectuals.com/2013/09/25/72-no-loans-free-schools-for-low-income-students-part-21/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The good thing about them is that you can use loans and work to cover a gap. Mostly tough to get in to, though.</p>

<p>Then there’s that full-tuition scholarship from 'Bama.</p>

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<p>UPenn and Vandy seem to have very generous fin aid policies. Might be tough to get in, though. Find the schools that would be no-loans for you and run NPCs for them anyway.</p>

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<p>OP,
You are very pragmatic about your situation, which I find refreshing. Though I offer no advice to what is offered here by others, I do offer you encouragement. Good luck! </p>

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<p>I ran the NPC at Lafayette (one of the colleges I am considering), who’s financial aid policy on PurpleTitan’s link claims they limit loans to 2.5k/yr for people in my income bracket.Net cost at Lafayette $14k after a 45k Lafayette Grant and $2.6k pell grant. After student loan and work, the cost would be $7k. Lehigh for some reason gave me a $0/year net cost after pell, college grant, student loan, & student work. While I know that’s not <em>completely</em> free, I really hope I put in all of our info correctly. Rice gave me a figure of 5.5k. I’ll have to get my mom to run exactly accurate numbers later. The thing is , my mom has somewhat of a slightly unpredictable income. For purposes of these NPCs, she has told me to use 80k as her gross income because she took the option of working all weekends and a night or two during the week, so she works a little more. When she doesn’t do that, she makes 60k gross and like 42-45k AGI.</p>

<p>I didn’t think we were low income enough to get a pell grant… we have a roughly 59k-60k AGI, and literally no assets outside of our house. Practically nothing in checking/savings accounts. I guess 65k if you include the potential $ I’ll make from my part time job.</p>

<p>I think I may need to re-run the NPC on some of the schools i’ve listed. I’ve been historically confused if we are supposed to use gross income and then subtract the taxed income or simply put in the AGI. All these calcs are different. I like these numbers but I am afraid it is too good to be true, certainly a far cry from WashU’s 15k. What is it that these universities are doing different to calculate aid? Do they really have such vastly difference aid policies?</p>

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<p>Yes, different schools can have greatly different financial aid and pricing policies. See the examples in the first post here: <a href=“"Meet full need" schools can vary significantly in their net prices. - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1675058-meet-full-need-schools-can-vary-significantly-in-their-net-prices-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Yeah, I remember seeing that post. I don’t know how USC can get away with claiming to meet 100% need, because based on everything I’ve seen from other applicants who needed aid didn’t get nearly as much at USC than their other schools.</p>

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<p>The main loophole is that schools get to decide what “need” is. Schools also vary in the size of the expected student contribution.</p>

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<p>I second the idea of asking grandpa to pay the bills directly to the school, if he decides to contribute. No harm done to the FA package.</p>