A financial aid dilemma, might be fun to read

Paying for College
41

<p>I don’t recall what the cut off EFC is for PELL for the 2014-15 school year that is up coming. It’s over $5K and if you just qualify, I believe the minimum award is under $600. I think it’s safe to say, that with a FAFSA EFC, if you are PELL grant eligible and that may be what the estimators are saying the grant is not to be much more than that minimum. The numbers will inch up for the next school year most likely, but not likely by much. </p>

<p>By all means, put a variety in your apps but do focus on having some choices that you know will be affordable . When the chips are down, you want some choice in the matter. If all works out, it doesn’t matter, but always have some safeties on the list, and safeties should be affordable with no contigencies as well as being sure admissions.</p>

42

<p>@‌mom2collegekids </p>

<p>">>>
I second the idea of asking grandpa to pay the bills directly to the school, if he decides to contribute. No harm done to the FA package.
<<<</p>

<p>No…dont do that. That will hurt FA. The grandpa needs to gift the money to the dad who then pays."</p>

<p>Ahh true, I forgot about the question that asks for “bills paid in your behalf” or something like that</p>

43

<br>

<br>

<p>@Ctesiphon‌
How many are in your household and how many children are college students?</p>

44

<p>there are 3 in my household: myself, my mom, my younger brother. I’ll be the only college student.</p>

45

<p>How does your mom get her AGI down to $60k with an $80k gross? </p>

46

<p>I’m really not sure. That’s just what she told me. Tomorrow when I see her again I’ll ask her why that is. Is it unusual for AGI to be that low in comparison? She may have been confused with that and her net income (after standard taxes are removed)</p>

47

<p>It isnt unusual for someone who is self-employed. </p>

<p>AGI isnt “net income”. </p>

48

<p>Yes, she may have confused that with her net income.</p>

49

<p>AGI is from you IRS tax form - what amount your tax rate then get applied to (from table based on AGI amount)</p>

50

<p>I asked mom, and her AGI is roughly the same as her gross. Saw it on her tax form from last year too. I ran the calculators knowing that and of some of the ones I tried; Lehigh was 8k, Lafayette 10k, WashU a little more.</p>

<p>I talked to my grandpa today, he gave an somewhat arbitrary number of 4k/yr. He said he would be willing to go more but I think he wants to see the numbers first. I recommended waiting until we have all the financial aid packages before we ask him to commit. I have financial safeties so in case he does not want to help bring the CoA down to something we’d be able to make up I won’t be locked out. I am not relying on his contribution. He’d be more willing to give us a safe number if he knows exactly how much we need. I looked at some state universities that offered engineering (Mizzou, Rolla) and they do not really give much aid to transfer students. mizzou costs 24k/yr for in-state students, over 2 years that like 50k including those additional expenses. More expensive than if these net price calculators are any accurate of 4 years. Going straight into Rolla for 4 years, as a comparative example, has a net price of 7.5k for me, which includes automatic merit scholarships. SLU I am able to stay at home as a freshman and with a benefit through mom’s work it brings the tuition down very reasonable. Not to mention I’ll be saving money from my job and I’ll likely win $1,000 this fall.</p>

51

<p>Just to chime in briefly with advice from the other side of the state as someone who was looking at the same programs you are a year ago with similar ambitions and numbers: outside of the obvious WashU dream school, your best bets for good engineering programs in state (which are generally the cheapest, since that appears to be your biggest concern) are Mizzou and S&T- which you’ve also mentioned.</p>

<p>For S&T, I will say that gender relations are extremely messed up. For that reason alone, it takes a certain type of person, especially if you’re female, to be able to thrive regardless</p>

<p>Mizzou- I’m sure you already know about the big scholarship programs (one 10k scholarship, for example, you’d be eligible for if you think you can bump your ACT up to a 33). The Chancellor’s scholarship (6.5k) you should automatically receive. Based on what you said, Mizzou, however, also has several engineering department scholarships you could get that many Freshman don’t apply for simply due to lack of awareness. I got a 2k renewable scholarship from them simply from an evening spent filling out an annual scholarship application post-acceptance, and alumni scholarships are similarly common.</p>

<p>From what you’ve said, one of the reasons you don’t want to go to community college first is research opportunities. Through their Honors College (which you’d be in automatically on ACT alone), Mizzou does have a fantastic paid Freshman research program that would provide the initial experience you’re looking for. Equivalent pay to a work-study job, if I remember correctly. Combined with Bright Flight, that may make Mizzou cheaper than you think.</p>

<p>…I think you know which school I applied to based on the information I was as able to give for each (Mizzou was my plan C, after the out-of-state dream school I’m attending and WashU).</p>

<p>I know my advice isn’t exactly what you were looking for, but trust me: it will all work out in the end. Don’t panic about finances, enjoy your senior year, and focus on getting accepted to your dream schools first. It sounds like you have a family willing to support you, a few outside scholarships lined up already, enough brains to get you decent merit aid, and a part-time job to build up some savings. You have options, and you will be fine. (:</p>

52

<p>Thank you for the informative response. Glad you chimed in!</p>

<p>Yes, one of the major reasons I’m not too excited about S&T is the fact it IS solely an engineering school. With that comes the large male population and its in one of the lesser desirable places of the state. Mizzou, despite its reputation as a party / sports school, would be a better fit regardless simply because it’s so large and I can get lost easily in it, a good thing. I was not aware of the breadth of Mizzou’s honors college, though. I’ll have to consider more in-depth because for the most part I’ve brushed Mizzou aside and believed if I were to go to an in-state college, it would be MST if anything.</p>

53

<p>Yeah, I have a few friends going to S&T, and it’s a good fit for them, but the campus just wasn’t for me at all, so that obviously biases my opinion on the school.</p>

<p>The thing about state schools, or at least with Mizzou for sure, is that because it is such a large campus, they offer pretty much anything you can think of- but you have to seek it out, much more so than small, private schools. It can be a party school if you want- but it doesn’t have to be, especially when that’s clearly not what you want. With so many people, especially in the types of programs and honors classes you’d be interested in, you won’t be ‘the only one who doesn’t party’ or anything like that.</p>

<p>I’d highly recommend, at the very least, applying and visiting the campus after your acceptance. Schools want to recruit you, but the people there also want you to make an informed decision. Talk with the people in the departments you’re interested in. Most of the opportunities I mentioned I found out about from emails from the school, specifically from the honors college.</p>

<p>I’d imagine a similar course of events might apply to some of the other schools you mentioned, too. Again, I can only directly give advice on things I’ve personally experienced. (:</p>

54

<p>Othet day in the male I got a pretty thick brochure from Mizzou Ill have to look into it!</p>

55

<p>I’m not sure this was really fun to read lol! but you did rope me in with that subject line. If engineering fails, there’s always advertising or PR. Just kidding :p. </p>

<p>Financial aid awards vary so much based on individual family situations but I wanted to share this info about Rice with you anyway. My kids have two friends in approximately your income bracket who received outstanding FA awards from Rice last year (we know about the families finances bc they were in a college financial aid workshop with my kids at their small private school…the workshop was for lower income families…at their school under 85K is considered low income for purposes of paying college tuition!..the kids were all very open about their financial situations as they did the worksheets ). Apparently the counselor here actually encourages certain students to apply to Rice because it’s more affordable than other private colleges offering comparable education, and Rice ‘stacks’ need and merit based aid. </p>

<p>So, this is the only reason I know anything about Rice, since it’s not a school any of my kids looked at – for geographical reasons. Both students we know were accepted at a range of schools and both chose Rice bc of the FA. Given that reasonable number you got from the NPC, don’t write it off yet! If you can win any outside scholarships, Rice will first reduce your self help (work-study,loans) obligation.
Also this: Rice will not award loans to students whose family total income is below $80,000. The student’s financial need will be met through a combination of grants, work study, merit aid (if qualified) and institutional funds.
So, if your mom’s income qualifies you for that no-loan package at Rice, you will have a little latitude to take out small loans on your own, PLUS, Stafford or other, if necessary, or if grandpa doesn’t come through. Although it sounds like he will be much more forthcoming once he sees the firm numbers on paper. After all, he is 100% supporting your adult dad, so he can’t be <em>that much</em> of penny pincher and you say he cares about your education. </p>

<p>I’ll echo what someone said earlier; you have a very pragmatic, flexible and mature attitude about this college admissions process – which can throw the most seasoned obstacle hurdler into a frenzy of frustration, and despair. Keep all your options open and maintain your equilibrium and you will have a well deserved happy outcome next spring, I’m sure. I wish you the very best!</p>

56

<p>Many people won’t commit to what they will pay until they see the offers on the table. It just isn’t real to them, and they can’t go there mentally, plus they have some conceptions on what is worth paying for and what isn’t. They also want to see what the alternatives are. I know grandparents who will pony up for a school that has name recognition to them, and not for other choices. They’ll pay for X only if the the other alternatives are not up to snuff IN THEIR opinion. So until it’s all on the table, and grandpa commits, no telling what’s happening there Also a commit to pay for year one does not mean the other three years are covered regardless of what is said unless backed up on enforceable paper or the money physically turned over at the that time A lot of things can happen in three-four years, heck in a year, especially with us old folks.</p>

57

<p>Thank you. Needless to say we won’t be “relying” on him. I have financial safeties that will help me meet the same ends. If he does not want to we will make things work. </p>

<p>The thing here is that he is a millionaire who has been sustaining my father for the 10 years my parents have been divorced. There’s been a “behind-closed-doors” child support case that hasn’t been going anywhere. My dad owes 18k, and a few years ago my grandfather jokingly offered my mom 10k and just “forget about it”. My grandfather has been helping my father evade actual action being taken by helping him feign unemployment, food stamps, etc. Of course the child support scenario is an issue for many divorced families it is just he has been evading all of the legal loopholes with the help of his millionaire father, ironically the same guy who paid full freight for my dad to spend a few years at SLU, Loyola, Lindenwood, and a random conservatory somewhere. Of course he also has the money to pay for the lawyers too. It has been affecting my mom in particular because despite her pretty good income we’re sort of stuck in the house from the marriage and she sort of operates on a budget that barely pays all the bills.</p>

<p>Not necessarily a pity call but I don’t feel “guilty” in asking him to help out on this. I think he is still interested in helping if it is the most financially feasible option. He does not really care for prestige or supposed “quality”, he is interested in helping us pay for the most financially feasible option. According to NPCs that may in fact be some of these high-need meeting privates. If he cannot commit when we have all of the numbers in hand I can go to Rolla or SLU. My mom also told me not to expect anything from him until he has written the check and signed it off. </p>

<p>It’s really complicated and I myself did not actually know about the entirety of this scenario until a few years ago. Of course we’d go see our dad every other weekend and what not but I had no idea he was unemployed and on food stamps!</p>

58

<p>i made an Excel Spreadsheet and put in all the NPC calculator values for colleges I am interested in.</p>

<p>Missouri University of Science & Technology (MO) 22756 15500 7256
Rice University (TX) 56180 48321 7859
Lehigh University (PA) 55370 47300 8070
Tufts University (MA) 64100 55450 8650
Lafayette College (PA) 62705 52700 10005
Washington University in St. Louis (MO) 63755 50000 13302
University of Rochester (NY) 63268 48600 14668
Saint Louis University (MO) 54684 31090 23234
Tulane University (LA) 63910 39000 24910
Case Western University (OH) 62294 35000 27294</p>

<p>First column is sticker price, including fees, tuition, second column is student aid (including the federal loans and work study) and the third column is the CoA. Note that SLU’s figure does not include the 2/3 tuition reimbursement available through my mom’s job. I have to email their finaid office and how they use the 2/3 reimbursement with other need-based aid. This list is sorted by increasing CoA. Also, Rice’s figure does not include the loans, which also surprised me. Tufts gave out the most raw $$</p>

<p>After many many years in court my mother managed to get 12.5k in child support from my father (or well, technically my grandfather). He owed 18k and they had been offering 10k for a while but I suppose they gave her 12.5k, so she may be able to contribute more. If she commits 2k a yr, my grandfather 3-4k a year, and my own contribution, the cheaper ones on this list may be doable without extra loans.</p>

<p>Case Western and Tulane obviously have some astronomical numbers. I already applied to Tulane (the app was free) but I do not think it is worth applying to Case if their aid is not that good compared to other options. I was surprised at how much Lafayette/Lehigh said they would give, plus I actually have a decent shot at getting in at those two. </p>

59

<p>Tufts has a fairly high ED admit rate. Lafayette also favors ED.</p>

<p>Personally, I would really target only the top 5 on that list due to costs. For engineering, I’d say that there isn’t really a difference between Tufts/Lehigh/Lafayette/WashU/Rochester. I’d rate Rice a tiny bit higher, but ED there is much more uncertain than Tufts/Lehigh/Lafayette. Everything else would be less desirable to me or (in the case of Case, too expensive).</p>

<p>So since I prefer to play the odds (rather than getting attached to a particular school) and see a bunch of your schools as being about the same, I’d spend EDI and EDII on 2 of Tufts/Lehigh/Lafayette to maximize my chances.</p>

60

<p>I like your idea of “playing the odds” - I know ED is supposed to be used to denote a first choice, but I sincerely cannot see major differences in terms of academic quality at any of these schools. I like them all, I would go to whichever ones I were accepted to. The issue is I’m not one who can easily be accepted to reaches so ED would be used to “bump” me up to the equivalent of a high-stats applicant applying RD. If Tufts accepts 39% through ED I think that would be a good place to do it at. I think I would have a decent shot at Lafayette, Lehigh, or Rochester RD so if Tufts does not work out I have some cushion. Not to mention Rolla of course back in Missouri which is essentially guaranteed admit and the cheapest option on my list.</p>

<p>If I could really go to any of them, I’d go to Rice, but I don’t see how someone like myself can reasonably get in…</p>

<p>Another thing I need to be wary about is that my mother doesn’t really want me going too far… She has been really fickle on this, when I showed her the NPC on WashU before she said “Well if we can get money like that anywhere you can go anywhere” but now whenever I talk to her about Rice or Tufts or something she seems to just get disinterested. She told me she wouldn’t want to pay for plane tickets to come visit me. I think that’s completely understandable, but I am not against driving home on holidays from most of these places. According to google maps, Rochester is 13 hour drive away, Lafayette 14, Lehigh 13, Rice 12, but Tufts is 18: sort of stretching it. We have commonly done 13 hour drives in the car to Florida for vacation.</p>

<p>I think if/when she sees acceptances and numbers she will be more open to letting me go far. The thing is there are not that many full/high-need meeting engineering universities in the Midwest that I can get accepted to. Northwestern and Notre Dame are the only few I know of.</p>