A Little-known Uchicago fact

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
1

The Texas Longhorn marching band has a giant bass drum 8 feet in diameter which it calls “Big Bertha” and prominently features in its half-time marching extravaganzas. But that drum was not made for the Longhorn Band. It began life at the University of Chicago in 1922, where it performed a similar function during Chicago’s Big-10 glory days. When the football program was terminated the drum became superfluous and perhaps an embarrassment; it was mothballed and stored in a logical but not very propitious spot under Stagg field not far from a certain squash court - the one where in the 1940’s Enrico Fermi and his team achieved the world’s first self-sustaining nuclear chain reaction, thereby producing the world’s largest radioactively contaminated drum. That drum was a true phoenix: In 1955 it was sold for $1.00 to a University of Texas bandsman, who somehow decontaminated it, removed all its UChicago insignias and rechristened it as a Longhorn. Believe it or not!

Other little-known UChicago facts welcomed.

2

Big Bertha needs to come home.

3

Sounds like that could be a Scav objective. Rustle Bertha out of Austin and head north, with, one hopes, minimal gunplay at the Texas border!

Alternatively, let’s consider that it’s no longer the biggest drum around - Purdue’s drum has that distinction. Texans don’t like to be second biggest at anything. Could they be ripe for a deal in which we commission a bigger drum than Purdue’s and swap it to Texas for Big Bertha?

4

Here’s the history of Big Bertha: https://lhb.music.utexas.edu/history/big-bertha/

And yes @marlowe1 that would be a great scav item!

Some other (perhaps) little known facts:

The Chicago Bears’ nickname “monsters of the midway” actually first referred to the UChicago football team.

Also, the elongated wishbone C on the Bears’ helmet came, you guessed it, from UChicago.

Details are here: http://communications.uchicago.edu/identity/wordmarks-athletic-c (scroll down a bit)

Another fact: Chicago and Butler’s storied basketball program share some connections. See below…

Butler’s men’s basketball program owes some homage to a Chicago alum, Harlan Page. Page kickstarted the Butler program after his time at Chicago, and also made it into the Basketball Hall of Fame:

http://butlersports.cstv.com/genrel/page_harlanopat00.html

Butler coach Paul Hinkle also is a Chicago alum, and he was honored in a recent scrimmage between Butler and Chicago:

http://butlersports.com/news/2014/11/1/11_1_2014_1128.aspx?path=mbball

As most people know, I really want Chicago to move to Division I or I-AA for NON-Major college sports (squash, soccer, tennis, etc.). It’d give Chicago an added dimension and raise it’s profile in areas that know nothing about the school…

5

So Big Bertha might be radioactive? As an Aggie, I hope that might be the case. :slight_smile:

6

Indeed! Big Bertha was stored under the Chicago football stadium for some time!

7

Its great that you want UChicago to be DI in some sports and not others, but the NCAA does not allow that. A school is in one division or the other. The only exceptions are some schools are FCS in football versus FBS, but all are considered to be DI. There are a handful of school that are DIII in most sports but were grandfathered in for select sports when the great separation occurred: JHU in lacrosse and UDenver, Colorado College, RPI in hockey and perhaps a few others. UChicago is not going anywhere beyond DIII.

8

@Bubbler - I’m confused, I see a bunch of sports where d3 teams have meaningful competition against d1 teams: crew, water polo, squash, alpine skiing, riflery…



Were ALL these d3 programs grandfathered in and allowed to compete against d1 schools?



Also, as ncaa policies are notoriously fuzzy, is there some grey area here? Or, if Chicago started a varsity squash or crew program, would they not be allowed to compete against Harvard or Princeton, like Williams and Amherst do?



Unclear on this.

9

DI, DII and DIII schools can compete against one another, but each school’s athletic program has to be one of the divisions (with the exception of the grandfathered instances). There are additional rules in football that limit how often higher level teams play lower level teams.

10

Then that’s fine then, right @Bubbler ? If it’s not possible for Chicago to pick and choose (e.g. be D1 for soccer AND D3 for football), that’s fine - my goal is to have Chicago engage in meaningful competition against D1 schools for certain sports.

So, like Williams or Amherst, could Chicago field a D3 soccer team, but also compete for championships in rowing, squash, etc. against D1 teams (like Harvard, Yale, etc.)?

That doesn’t even mean they have to compete solely against D1 schools in those sports - if you look at, say, URochester squash’s schedule, they play a mix of teams. Same thing with William’s crew.

Again, unless it’s football, am I missing something here? Just because you can’t pick and choose the level (D1 or D3) does NOT seem to mean you preclude meaningful, frequent competition against D1 teams.

Your above post then, would negate your prior comment (“UChicago is not going anywhere beyond D3”), unless you think Trinity Squash or Rochester Squash has “not gone anywhere beyond D3” (by winning/vying for championships against D1 powerhouses).

11

Amherst rows as a club team. So I guess they can sort of row against whoever they like. I guess Chicago could take that approach.

12

Sorry @OHMomof2 - substitute another NESCAC team with a varsity crew team then - like Wesleyan. They’re a D3 school, but they compete against D1 schools in crew (and are varsity).

13

I think it depends on the sport, too. The most meaningful collegiate squash championship tournament, for example, is not an NCAA contest but CSA (College Squash Association), where teams play across NCAA divisions. That’s very different from “money sports” that generate huge fan support like football or basketball where the NCAA rules.

And, based on observation, nobody—on campus or off—really cares much if a school is great at a minor sport. It does little or nothing to raise the stature or popular reputation of a school among the general public. (My kid was at Rochester for a year before I realized they even had squash team.)

14

@EllieMom

  • So my goal with the minor sports isn't actually to raise the profile of the school itself - it's to create a bit of change in the student body itself, and to expand the network offered.

To wit, having varsity crew and squash teams would lead to some more/different types of students to consider the school. Further, the network provided within, say, Yale Crew or Harvard Crew is formidable - and it could be useful for Chicago to develop that.

Put another way, I’d have no problem if Chicago continued to recruit smarts, but if some of them were 6’4, athletic, and with potential to make the Olympics, that’s good too! Let’s be serious, certain industries really like elite athletes in minor sports - and it doesn’t hurt Chicago to develop some of this.

(As an example of this, ONE Chicago student - a swimmer - competed in the Olympics for Haiti. This didn’t raise the profile of the school, and no one really cared, but the university itself devoted front-page website coverage to her pursuit. Why not have other sports where Chicago can expand its influence and change the composition of its student body - slightly? It obviously took a lot of interest in the swimmer - what if, for the Olympics, UChicago regularly sent 3-4 grads? It’s good press.)

Press on the swimmer: http://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/wswimdive/2016-17/releases/20160705o5p1xh

15

Cue7:

Your initial post mentioned DI and DI-A, so I was simply saying that a school has to be one level or the other. Officially, DI-A was renamed FCS prior to the 2006 season, though many still refer to that level as DI-A. DI-A and FCS have always applied only to football. FCS includes the likes of the Ivies, Patriot, and various conferences largely populated by directional state schools.

As it is today, the teams that compete at the DIII national level in basketball, women’s volleyball, and a few other sports would be very competitive with the low-level DI teams in those sports, some of which are terrible relative to the top DI schools. The top DIII schools would be easily beaten by the top DI schools, but there is substantial variation in quality within DI. Even in football, a DIII beat an FCS team in 2015, but the fact that an FCS team even scheduled a DIII team tells you how horrible the FCS team was for its level.

I don’t understand the value to trying to compete at a high level is squash or crew, but to each her own. I see no value from a publicity standpoint because very few people pay attention to those sports. The Haitian swimmer provided a brief human interest story that was consumed largely by UChicago-affiliated folks, but if some wealthy alum wants to fund a national-level squash team, fine.

Chicago is in a great conference (UAA) for most sports; a conference that is unique for its geographic scope and travel opportunities for DIII athletes. Unfortunately, the conference could never get it together for football. FWIW, Chicago will be very competitive in the Midwest Conference for football and WashU will get stuffed in the CCIW, which is a much more competitive conference athletically. Given WashU’s admissions requirement, I don’t see them being able to compete in one of the stronger DIII football conferences.

16

@Cue7 I think Chicago is actually positioning its brand in a way that does a good job of differentiating itself from Chicago’s other elite university, NU. NU has developed a brand image that is more preprofessional, with a focus on networking and presentation of self, in addition to strong academics. And a competitive DI sports program is part of the branding. Chicago, on the other hand, has done well with the “life of the mind” tagline, which formed the basis of its marketing during its march up the rankings over the past 10 years or so. By eschewing competitiveness in sports for more emphasis on scholarly accolades, Chicago has freed itself from the need for the kind of expensive athletic improvement projects that NU has embarked upon in recent years to keep up with the demands of competing on the D1 level across the board. It takes a lot to build an athletic program, even in a minor sport, both in money and time. And it takes a strong program with a record of winning to attract top athletes. Based on current results, I’m not sure that would be money well-spent at this time for Chicago.

17

^^The discussion has veered off in a direction where I may have a relevant opinion, as a parent of a UChicago student, a parent of a former UAA athlete, a former UAA coach and athlete myself, and as a former club coach at an SEC school.



I’d be happy if UChicago stayed where it is and simply sought to compete at the highest levels within DIII while providing opportunities for training at the highest levels in the Olympic sports. Among other things, you avoid institutionalizing another “caste” within the University a la Duke, ND, etc.

18

@EllieMom - Why would Chicago struggle to build a good varsity squash program? Chicago only has a CLUB squash program right now, and it’s already ranked #38 in the country:

http://collegesquashassociation.com/2017/03/31/dunlop-mens-college-squash-final-2016-2017-team-rankings/

Re life of the mind - I don’t mean to siphon away from that. Rather, I’d like to add a dimension to the Chicago experience - at trinity or rochester, when their teams make the championships/playoffs, alums notice, and often even come to the matches. It could be nice to do that at Chicago too.

Also, having elite athletes on campus can increase Chicago’s viability in areas they want to gain post-grad prominence: finance, consulting, medicine, etc. - these are areas that like elite athletes. Having some on campus is better than having basically none.

Also, this would all come at comparatively little cost. This isn’t like maintaining a bigtime basketball or football program.

If Chicago played Yale for the championship in squash in NYC, I’m pretty sure alums would show up, and the school would market it hard. @Bubbler noted that the Haitian swimmer was a brief public interest story, but imagine if those pop up a few times a year? That story got decent play with chicago alums. (I remember one telling me at an event: “We even have Olympians now!”).

If a Katie Ledecky (Stanford swimmer, Olympic gold medalist) or Steven Coppola (Princeton crew, Olympic gold medalist) ended up at Chicago, you better believe there’d be awareness about it - from alums and the broader community too. If this became a pattern, all the better for the school!

19

Since this thread came back to life, I learned that crew/rowing for men isn’t an NCAA sport, but women’s is.

The men’s schedule at the D3 schools I looked at that were mentioned here (Williams, Wes) all have only other D3 schools on them…with the exception of big “tournaments” like the Head of the Charles…which seems to have a rule about the big D1 winners not being able to compete.

Not my sport but i found that tangent interesting.

20

Close to 40% of our last graduating class went into finance/consulting, a figure that’s risen sharply in recent years. Depending on who you ask, our economics program is either famous or infamous. Even allowing for a substantial number of alums who can’t cut it at Bain, or realize at 30 that they hate working at McKinsey, or suffer through the next crash, find Jesus, and leave Goldman, I expect the university will continue to be well represented in finance/consulting. There’s a long list of things UChicago needs more than an increase in the school’s visibility in those areas.

Yes, having a few Olympians on campus would be nice. However, like it or not, that requires some tradeoffs. If it didn’t, the university would be enrolling more of the students you describe already. As things stand, D1 schools have facilities, coaches, and athletic scholarships, among other things. Facilities and coaches might be cheaper for some sports than others, but as a DIII school UChicago can’t offer athletic scholarships - which makes the task of attracting top-tier talent, and top-tier coaches (which of these things comes first may be a chicken-and-egg question) difficult.

The basic problem here is that the supply of athletes who A. have Olympic potential, B. have top-tier academics, C. are a good fit for college in general, and D. would choose a DIII school over their pick of DI schools and scholarships (which A, B, and C will give them) is extremely limited. All things being equal, it makes sense for an athletic recruit with potential and a strong academic background to choose a school with an established and well-funded program, so attracting students to Chicago will require changes of some sort.

This might mean spending more money on athletics. However, the university’s financial situation could be better right now, and spending more on athletics after making cuts to academic staff (as the College just did) is not the direction we should take IMHO. I suspect Moody’s, Fitch, and S&P’s would agree.

The other possibility is making compromises on some of the above criteria - academics, sporting talent, or other factors. We’re already lowering admission standards modestly (recruited athletes in the class of 2020 scored 75 points lower on the SAT. https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2016/9/14/class-2020-survey/). I humbly submit that drastically lowering academic standards would be bad for academics, campus culture, and the College’s ranking (if you care about rankings). Enrolling student athletes with better academics and a worse pedigree than at DI schools is the status quo. So is accepting a handful of students who are less quirky and more athletic. Compromising on other intangibles - for instance, by accepting students blackballed by DI schools - isn’t the way to go; just ask Baylor how that worked out.

The ‘Life of the Mind’ doesn’t rule out being athletic. I suspect most students would better my 8-minute mile, nonexistent hand-eye coordination, and probably middling bench press, and I two of the quirkiest people I know play a varsity sport. Still, if a choice needs to be made, a quirky and scholarly Life of the Mind remains the U of C’s defining trait. If the price to pay is having average sports teams in major and minor sports, I can live with that.