<p>interesteddad -
I agree in most cases. The MIT admits this year were interesting, as they seemed to look beyond grades in at least some cases.</p>
<p>I don't think it's a crap shoot. Rather, I think that many of us fail to "think like an adcom" and understand that elite college admissions hinges on many things beyond stats. At many schools, the stats are just a culling threshold.</p>
<p>"The Gatekeepers" provides the best primer on how to think like an adcom.</p>
<p>
My sentiments exactly.LOL.</p>
<p>I had posted that my hope (like I should have one) was that D would get a 2100. I did and do think that gets her an "at bat" most anywhere. D has few schools on her list where these scores are an admission issue. Merit issue, yes. I'm assuming every ten points helps when you are up for large merit awards at top 100 schools that are trying to lure high scorers to their campus. A good friend of mine here on the board mentioned that a 1500 may not be required but to paraphrase , it seemed to her that it certainly didn't hurt. D is tantalizingly close.</p>
<p>So, do we really believe that schools "take" the best scores from different settings and ignore the other sent scores? I find that sooo hard to believe. I know I'd look if it was there in the folder and I was deciding between two kids. I know they know how many tests some of these kids are taking to get those scores because an Ivy adcom told an audience that she felt some kids should be honest and just list "standardized test taking"
as their dominant EC. We will not get there. Promise.</p>
<p>I was so hoping that we'd be one and done but ...she wants to try one more time to crawl over that next perceived admission barrier, whether it is a mirage or not.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon--tremendously interesting, and thanks Carolyn for the link. It confirms my (anecdotally-based) belief that for most cases it's a toss-up. That's why we're still looking for the perfect "safety" school despite S2's 2400 SAT in March.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon,
if she is annoyed at the SAT and wants to wrestle more points out of it, she is likely to do so. Just keep an eye on the calendar - she needs to have a least one available test date for an SAT II retake if she misbubbles or gets sick or something. Part of this deal is endurance and organization.</p>
<p>
And all she's got is me. She's doomed.</p>
<p>Time to bring in the big guns.Time to get mom involved. LOL.</p>
<p>Brown[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=377%5DUniversity">http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/level3.asp?id=377]University</a> of Chicago
[url=<a href="http://www.duke.edu/web/ug-admissions/apply/profile.htm%5DDuke%5B/url">http://www.duke.edu/web/ug-admissions/apply/profile.htm]Duke[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear_profile.cfm%5DCornell%5B/url">http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear_profile.cfm]Cornell[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/facts/%5DNorthwestern%5B/url">http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/facts/]Northwestern[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.georgetown.edu/undergrad/admissions/Information1YRProfile1.htm%5DGeorgetown%5B/url">http://www.georgetown.edu/undergrad/admissions/Information1YRProfile1.htm]Georgetown[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Admissions/freshman%20profile.htm%5DVanderbilt%5B/url">http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Admissions/freshman%20profile.htm]Vanderbilt[/url</a>] (The lone belly dancer and the three bagpipers crack me up)
[url=<a href="http://www.pomona.edu/ADWR/Admissions/Forms/2008profile.pdf%5DPomona%5B/url">http://www.pomona.edu/ADWR/Admissions/Forms/2008profile.pdf]Pomona[/url</a>]</p>
<p>great job, warblersrule. Keep them coming.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon - Anecdotal recommendation from my experience. (Wish I had stats for you but I don't). My D scored 1510 on PSATs with no prep. Then did a terrible Princeton Review course for 4 weeks once or twice a week. They told her she was capable of an 800M. Scores came back, 730V 740M for a 1470. We stopped there, on the advice of the guidance counselor who I think was just sick and tired of the SAT bootcamps and the high-pressure atmosphere of the Bay Area. </p>
<p>I to this day believe that had she followed the Xiggi program and taken them again she would have gone back up above 1500. This is because she is the top math student in her class and because of the PSATs. And as she has a robust enough ego that she would have taken them on pretty well, which to me is the key factor as ohio_mom points out, were she to have to do this over again (GOD NO!) I would strongly have recommended she take them twice. </p>
<p>It goes along with what I tell my kids about a lot of stuff - just do the best you can and then whatever happens you can live with it.</p>
<p>Here is Princeton, just so Mudgie looks at lots of great schools:). They don't give that interesting admit rate per score - at least I couldn't find it.</p>
<p>Updating...
Wellesley[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.colby.edu/admissions/about/stats.html%5DColby%5B/url">http://www.colby.edu/admissions/about/stats.html]Colby[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://admissions.vassar.edu/pdfs/class2008stats.pdf%5DVassar%5B/url">http://admissions.vassar.edu/pdfs/class2008stats.pdf]Vassar[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/Profile9104.pdf%5DWesleyan%5B/url">http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/Profile9104.pdf]Wesleyan[/url</a>]
[url=<a href="http://admissions.nyu.edu/appprocess/step2.php%5DNew">http://admissions.nyu.edu/appprocess/step2.php]New</a> York University
[url=<a href="http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/USC-AFA/upload_images/ACF5F.pdf%5DUSC%5B/url">http://afaweb.esd.usc.edu/USC-AFA/upload_images/ACF5F.pdf]USC[/url</a>]</p>
<p>I think the most intimidating aspect of those stats is that there is not one single stat that produces an acceptance rate > 50%... and only one (valedictorian) that is even > 40%.</p>
<p>Kind of interesting that the Tufts test score numbers on the ipeds site <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/cool/admissions.asp%5B/url%5D">http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/cool/admissions.asp</a> and at their Admissions site <a href="http://admissions.tufts.edu/admstat.htm%5B/url%5D">http://admissions.tufts.edu/admstat.htm</a> differ by 20 or so points for the class of 2008 on both the verbal and the math.</p>
<p>I would take all of these self-reported numbers from all of these schools with just a grain of salt.</p>
<p>One is for the "accepted" class. One is for the "enrolled" class. At most schools, the "accepted" class will have higher stats than the "enrolled" class because the top acceptees are most likely to have other attractive options.</p>
<p>curmudgeon - it's true that "only" 1/3 of the superhigh SATs and "only" 1/4 of the 700-whatver were accepted. But do remember that these rates are 2x to 3x the overall admit rate. At Stanford, the admit rate for perfect 1600s was "shocking" to me - "only" 50%. But that is about 5x the rate of their total pool.</p>
<p>Now as you dig yourself deeper into these HYPS admit profiles, how does this fit with the merit $ you've been focusing on? These places don't really do that, no matter how nifty the scores, n'est-ce pas?</p>
<p>jmmom, D has some interest in Penn's SEAS, the BAS in Biomedical Science to be exact. That's what started this. Our focus remains on schools where D will qualify for merit aid. She was always going to shoot for a couple of far reaches that were need only , praying that all EFC issues cut our way. We're just trying to look at who those reachy reaches will be.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Here's Brown: <a href="http://www.brown.edu/Administration...andfigures.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.brown.edu/Administration...andfigures.html</a>
It's pretty intimating, too!
[/quote]
No kidding. I don't think that it's a coincidence that just above these figures is a translation of the Brown motto: "In Gode We Hope"!</p>
<p>You know, in a lot of ways I'm glad that I didn't look at score breakdowns at most schools until after I applied everywhere. I sort of broke down in tears when I got my first sitting of the SAT (720 V 570 M) and was pretty sure that I didn't have a chance in heck to get in anywhere (just from what I heard). However, there were a few people who told me to "chin up" because my score was alright, and I'd more likely that not get in to lots of schools. They knew I standardized tested really badly and that my rank (5-6/288) and the other stuff would show through. However, even with that, I overlooked tons and tons of schools I was interested in because of my scores, and I came this close to not applying to the school I'll be attending because of my scores (Reed). So, I think if I'd seen how hard it really is at schools, I would have been even more miserable with my score. Even so, I ended up retaking and really didn't change much (620 M 680 V) and then took the ACT and hit right about that range (31). I always like to think I would have done better with prep, but now that I'm into the one school I'd never thought would be possible, all is well. </p>
<p>Now that I look at my scores, I cringe at how "bad" I thought they were. I never wanted SAT "mania" to hit me, but it obviously did. I think my eyes were finally opened when both my friends (27 ACT 960 SAT for one and 1100 SAT for the other) were both so proud of their scores and got into schools they loved. Here I was obsessing about 97-98 percentile scores and here they were actually getting out, applying, and feeling happy. There really is a place for everyone. ^_^</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, how about JHU?
<a href="http://www.bme.jhu.edu/academics/undergrad.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.bme.jhu.edu/academics/undergrad.htm</a>
JHU is right up there in biomed, and has merit money too. Besides, I'll be here to keep an eye on her! just kidding ;)</p>
<p>When I read those statistics that the OP posted, I thought there was an ambiguity in that it was not clear to me whether it meant of all valedictorians who applied, only 47% were accepted, or whether it meant that of the admitted class, 47% were valedictorians. Certainly it makes a big difference to potential applicants which of those it means.</p>