<p>Does it matter where I am within the top 10%? I'm ranked between the top 5th and 10th percent of my class of 270 people, and I'm worried that won't be enough; however, whenever I see statistics about colleges, they only go so far as saying how many students are in the top 10%, so it kind of seems like they just want you to be ranked that high... </p>
<p>But the fact that 99% of Penn's class is in the top 10% is kind frightening, and it makes me wonder if you need to be ranked even higher than the top 10% to be considered. </p>
<p>I guess what I'm asking is this: Once you're in the top 10%, do your chances of acceptance go up a lot? Or do I NEED to be in the top 1% or 5% to gain admission?</p>
<p>Valedictorian 38%
Salutatorian 31%
Other Top Five Percent 18%
Second Five Percent 6%
Total Top Decile 19%
Second Decile 4%
Second Quintile 3%
Third Quintile 2%
Fourth Quintile 0%
Fifth Quintile 0%
No Rank 17%
Incomplete Information 0% </p>
<p>Oh dear lord. 6% acceptance rate? That’s bleak.
Well, Hopefully 2 people at my school drop in rank and I move up a little by the time the midyear report is due.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information though! I couldn’t find it anywhere :)</p>
<p>^^ there is no way only 1% of applicants in the 5-10% range in their class are accepted. I am pretty sure the 6% is the percent admitted, not that they compose 6% of the incoming class.</p>
<ol>
<li>These statistics are from a couple years back</li>
<li>Most applicants that are in the top 5% TEND to have better applications (e.g., SAT scores, essays, recommendation) than those who have lower ranks… so if this is not the case for you then I would say you have higher chance than 6%</li>
<li>I am not sure if you are applying ED or not. But if you are, there is a possibility that the percentage is much higher in that round (perhaps 15%)… this statistic is unknown, but it is a possibility.</li>
<li><p>17% of those who do not report rank are accepted. Many of these applicants come from competitive high schools. A good amount of them are not in the top 5% because of the rigor of their high schools. The admissions officers can estimate that many of these applicants are not in the top 5% but still accept them because the rest of their application is very competitive.
5.There is also the possibility that the majority of applications come from the 5-10% range. I deem it highly unlikely that they are the majority of applications, but there is definitely a good amount of applicants in that range. This means that although only 6% are admitted, it is possible that the 6% is a couple hundred admitted applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>Ultimately, your in a better position being in the top 5%. There is no denying that. There is no way around it. Still, 6% of the applicants in the 5-10% range are admitted. Personally, I am in the top 6% in my class. I have the same concern that you have. However, the rest of my application, I believe, is just as competitive as those in the top 5% of their class. The best way of thinking about your situation is knowing that most applicants outside the top 5% are not as strong as those in the top 5%. If, however, your application is exceedingly strong, with great scores, great essays/reccomendations, and you show a great fit/match for Penn, than there is a decent chance you can be among the 6% (which, by the way, is only about %10 less than penn’s OVERALL acceptance rate… and only 5% less than penn’s RD rate) that are admitted to Penn.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>The stats mean “out of this category, this percentage was admitted.” So for instance, out of all the valedictorians that applied, 38% of them were admitted. This means out of everyone in the Second Five Percent bracket (the 5-10% threshold), 6% of that group was admitted. Compare this to the Top Five Percent at 18%, which is triple the frequency of the Second Five Percent.</p>
<p>Anyways, I hope none of this scares you. These are simply the facts… there are always other factors to help in your favor even if you’re in the second five percent. Like xs0itg0esx was getting at, the guys with better rank standings tend to have a strong application all-around. Your application is evaluated holistically, so don’t let any one factor get you down, because an otherwise strong application is, well, still a strong application. Just do your best, give the application a shot, and hope for good luck, because you never know!</p>
<p>I’m wondering the same thing. My school is a county magnet school and doesn’t have rankings. If it did, I wouldn’t be top 5%, but if I stayed at my town’s high school there is no doubt in my mind i would be top 5%, possibly number 1. I have a 94/100 qpa, the average in our school (which consists of the brightest in the county) is around 88 and the highest is 96-97. Do you think the fact that my qpa is 2-3 points lower than the highest will hurt me?</p>
<p>Again, grades are important because the admissions officers are basically asking, “Will this student be successful here? Can they handle the coursework?” Generally speaking, Penn is a challenge even to those who were among the top 5%. It’ll likely be even more challenging for those who came from lower deciles/quintiles. However, it’s all taken in context, which is the point of holistic evaluation. If your school is very competitive, then you’re already a step ahead in terms of being able to transition to a school like Penn, especially if you’re already doing very well. A 94/96 at a very competitive magnet school would definitely signal that you’re more than capable.</p>
<p>Thank you all for posting this info: I was trying to explain these stats to 45 percenter on another thread (without much success, since these numbers are no longer on the website)…</p>
<p>That second 5% has been a HUGE hurdle for kids around here where we do (unfortunately) still rank…</p>
<p>But do they really draw a firm line at 5%? My exact percentage is 5.9% … do those three students ahead of me (whose gpa is like .01 higher) really create that “giant hurdle” as you say?</p>
<p>I am not really freaking out… I feel pretty confident still with my application. I am just curious if there is that much of a distinction between top 5% and 5.9%</p>
<p>^^^Well it makes sense that only one person in the 5+% range is admitted for every three in the top 5%. This can be explained by the fact that those in the top 5% typically have stronger applications. There are many cases, however, when someone who is in the top 6% has a stronger application than someone in the top 4%. I am just hoping that there is not an actual theoretical line they draw at 5% (because 5.9% is damn close). </p>
<p>To put things in perspective: I say a great amount of the 18% admitted who are in the top 5% are number 3 in their class (maybe 30% of those who are number 3 are accepted…since valid. and salut. rates were well above the 30% range). How do we know once your in the 3-5% range of your class (or you are not apart of the top 5 people in your class), the rate of acceptance goes down to around 9%-ish? It could be the case that the overall acceptance for the top 5% is only 18% because of those number 3’s and number 4’s who acceptance rates are very close to the salud. and valid. Through this logic, I assume that the acceptance rate for someone in the top 4% is very close to the acceptance rate for someone in the top 6%. </p>
<p>All of this is pure assumption, but it might have some validity. I am just curious if it makes that much of a difference once your in the 3-7% range. I am just wondering out-loud. I doubt any of us has a true answer. But I think we all can agree that those who are at a disadvantage with class rank can still compile a competitive and strong application.</p>
<p>as much as it wouldnt make sense for them to literally consider someone more highly because they are in the top 5 instead of 6 %, i always fear that schools such as penn worry about their reputations too much. i’m sure penn loves to brag about how many students graduated in the top 5% in high school. hopefully they dont make their selections just so they can brag</p>
<p>^^ well I don’t think they are bragging anymore because they don’t release those rank/admission stats anymore. The only thing they could possibly brag about is that 99.7 (i think?)% of the admitted applicants are in the top %10… because they do release that information.</p>
<p>makes sense. I always worry that they try to brag about that stuff though. Like will they admit someone from North Dakota who is not as qualified just to say they are represented by all 50 states? I’m not sure…
Lemme know what you think of my chances (ED Wharton What are my chances? thread)! :D</p>
No need to explain–I’ve been following Penn’s admission stats for probably longer than you’ve been alive. My point was merely that the vast majority of those who apply to and are accepted by Penn come from high schools that don’t even provide class rank. Plus, as legendofmax pointed out, the admissions process at Penn (and other top schools) is holistic, so that one parameter alone (e.g., class rank) is not determinative. </p>
<p>Furthermore, there’s a new sheriff in town (Furda), and Penn has suddenly dropped the detailed admissions stats for various class ranks and SAT levels from its web site, after having included those stats for at least the past several years. To me, that signals a change in emphasis, although I’m not sure exactly how it will play out in the admissions process. But at the very least, Penn is indicating that it doesn’t want applicants to focus on specific class ranks and SAT ranges in evaluating their chances of admission.</p>
<p>Finally, just skim a few of the recent ED and RD decision threads in the Penn forum, and you’ll quickly see that admissions decisions often do not correlate with class rank and/or SATs.</p>
<p>to NYMets: It’s funny that you used the example of North Dakotans getting in just so they can say they “have someone from all 50 states”, because I’m actually from North Dakota. There are other people from ND who are applying and are just as qualified as me, though, so it doesn’t really ease my mind.</p>
<p>I just wish Penn would calm down a little with this class rank stuff. Even Harvard doesn’t seem to be as intense about it.</p>
My point was merely that the vast majority of those who apply to and are accepted by Penn come from high schools that don’t even provide class rank. Plus, as legendofmax pointed out, the admissions process at Penn (and other top schools) is holistic, so that one parameter alone (e.g., class rank) is not determinative. </p>