Sorry, if this is a duplicate post.
The father does not have to be told the alleged rapist is in Erica’s class. The father would not know.
Underlying the actions in this case is self preservation or self interest.By all the parties. The accuser, accused, police, FSU, the prosecuters.
Everything can be explained by self preservation or self interest. Everything except notifying the police a month later and telling the police who the alleged rapist is. This makes no sense if you are a liar.
GHB is that drug. I’m not saying that she was drugged with GHB, but I am saying that if she had been drugged with GHB we could easily see the results we did see. In the paper I referenced, GHB was no longer detectable in the urine of every single white person in the test before six hours had elapsed.
GHB is sometimes used as a recreational drug.
Is there any evidence that she was drugged aside from her statement that she felt funny after one particular drink? And when did she first say that?
She said it to the police right away, and allegedly said it to her friend right after she got home.
The other evidence would be a tox screen, but as I’ve said, apparently GHB clears quickly, so as far as I can tell we can’t conclude anything from a negative tox screen.
“GHB is that drug.”
Is it? Honest question. How long do the impairment symptoms of the drug last?
This gal did not appear to be drug impaired at the time she entered the cab. That is (ballpark) 12:30-1:00 am. By 2:36 am she is back in her dorm room and communicating coherently via phone and text message. And that’s after getting dressed, going outside, taking a scooter ride, being dropped off and walking home.
Could the drug could impair and then unimpair in such a short period? For the story to hold up, the symptoms could only last 1-2 hours max.
Generally no more than 1.5 to 3 hours…
How do we know this? I thought they couldn’t find the cab driver. Indisputably, Kinsman was drunk when she got in the cab.
I’m not an expert on GHB; I’ve just been poking around the web, trying to find what I can. [url=http://www.drugs.com/illicit/ghb.html]Here[/url] is a report about GHB used as a “club drug:”
[url=http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=2761]Here’s[/url] another description of GHB, explaining that it takes effect quickly and wears off within 3 to 6 hours:
So as far as I can determine, GHB takes effect quickly, produces lowered inhibitions, amnesia for the period of effect, and possible loss of consciousness and nausea. It then wears off quickly, and after a few hours it’s out of the urine and undetectable. Sounds like a great date rape drug.
Come one Fang, you are stretching. The gal’s own friends said she wasn’t out of control at the time she left and took the cab.
For her to have been drugged you have to perfectly thread this timeline needle. (i) She was drugged at the bar but got into the cab fast enough to not show symptoms. (ii) She gets the drug symptoms suddenly but then the symptons completely dissipate in 1.5 hours or less thus allowing her to get dressed, walk, talk, text, ride on a scooter and be home and lucid by 2:36 am. (iii) The tox screen is delayed for JUST long enough so the drug is completely out of her system and not detected. That may not even be possible; certainly not likely.
Or it also could be explained by “no drug.”
Don’t forget there also was no knock-out bonk to the head (as she also claimed and which we know did not happen).
The timeline fits…
Northwesty, why would a liar call the police a month later with a name?
I think the symptoms of the drug are not as obvious as you’re assuming, @northwesty. She doesn’t have to have been “out of control” to have been under the influence of a drug. And we know that she was under the influence of at least one drug, because we know that she was drunk.
Have you ever happened to talk to someone an hour after they had a colonoscopy? It won’t be obvious that they’re under the influence of a drug, but they are. Five hours later, they won’t remember the conversation they had with you. That’s the kind of drug-produced amnesia that (I think) GHB produces.
That is alittle misleading - it can be found in urine up to 12 hours - it falls off rapidly after 3-6 hours in many people, especially if they have hydrated and urinated - it’s going to vary from person to person and dependent on how much they have injested.
If the accuser’s lawyer really wanted to prove that Ms. Kinsman was under the influence of GHB she could have had a hair strand test done as GHB is detectable in hair for quite a long time (some testing companies say up to a month).
The lawyer did some very odd things, but I’m guessing she studied up on date rape drugs. I think it’s pretty safe to say that Ms. Kinsman was probably not drugged or her lawyer would have been all over the date rape drug angle.
Cites, please, and for this we need actual science, not some newspaper report.
I have absolutely no idea whether Ms. Kinsman was drugged. I merely point out that the people who assert so confidently that the negative tox screen proves to that she was NOT drugged have, so far, been unable to substantiate that statement with scientific evidence about GHB or other drugs that are sometimes used in date rapes, and how those drugs are metabolized in the body and detected in scientific tests.
I’ve read popular articles that say GHB can be found up to 12 hours, but when I tried to find the scientific basis for that claim, I couldn’t (which means nothing except that I couldn’t find the papers-- they may well exist). In any case, I have linked to a scientific study where volunteers were given GHB, and their urine was periodically tested, and as I’ve said before, in this particular study the GHB was undetectable after six hours or before. For that reason, I conclude that GHB doses are sometimes undetectable six hours or less after the GHB has been administered.
I want Fang and Stark on the jury when I’m on trial.
So you’re saying there could be a chance…
FYI, Stark’s citation is to a website for The Trip Project. “Providing health info to Toronto party people since 1995!”
No, I’m saying that if she’d been given GHB it could with some probability have been gone from her body by the time the hospital tested her. Further, I’m saying that the symptoms she reported were consistent with the administration of GHB.
But you do want me on your jury.
From:
http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/date-rape-drugs.html
Other rape victim support sites indicate that GHB is detectable for 12 hours. Perhaps the effects are done within 6 hours, but the blood tests can detect it longer?
One site also said the by products are testable up to 24 hours.
But you are correct, this is a government publication, not scientific studies. However, the US Government is going with 12 hours. Otherwise, it seems unlikely that this drug would ever be detected.
In any event, the time line does fit, unless her blood was not drawn until 7 am or later.
Can you give a link to the study you mentioned showing it leaves in 6 hours?
Northwesty, you didn’t answer my question.
Why would a liar a month later call the police with a name?
If Erica is a liar, she did this.
I worked with two excellent liars. One guy lied so much he couldn’t remember his lies after 2 minutes. 
He did work 16-18 hours a day though.
Neither would have called the cops. You know, let sleeping dogs lie.
Maybe Erica peed before the test.
I’ll be happy to link the paper again:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2257868/
I have read the various fact sheets that say GHB is detectable for 12 hours. I wanted to know what those fact sheets were based on. So I tried to search the science. Now, I’m the first to admit I don’t have journal subscriptions and I did a haphazard search. So there may be other relevant scientific evidence I’ve missed-- there probably is. But nobody here has produced any of it.
Yeah!
What do you think these guys are doing?
They are partying.
Did you read what one of the witnesses said about Winston and himself?