A look at Middlebury admissions

Parents Forum
61

<p>What I'd like to know is why a single C was the kiss of death to the female applicants but an F in one class and less than stellar performance in humanities classes on the part of the math guy didn't seem to bother the adcoms at all. It would be nicer if the discussion more honest--Middlebury attracts verbal, bright girls and wants boys with math skills. This has nothing to do with abilities or intelligence but lots to do with supply and demand. </p>

<p>As an aside, I think it's absurd to accept only across-the-board achievement and to fail to consider, and sometimes even admit!, the more lopsided kid. It's quite possible for a kid to earn a C, even in precalculus, and present a record of dizzying ability in another area of scholarship. No matter how competitive college admissions have become, I'd think looking at such candidates seriously would still be worthwhile. This kid might well go on to become preeminent in his/her field and all the signs are there for those who care to look. I may be reacting more to the author's bias than the actual adcom discussions but I was put off by the arrogance with which the committee seemed to toss the soccer kid and the "slacker" into the reject pile.</p>

62

<p>I have reservations about the reporter's ability to judge the quality of an applicant based on the remarks made about the math "genius." As other posters noted, an 800 on Math2c is not a sign of genius. But that seems to be the only criterion of excellence the reporter seems to understand. We're not told about the math competitions, but be assured that math competitions that will impress adcoms whether at Middlebury or MIT are not won through "outstandingly good computation skills." I'll wager that this particular phraseology is the reporter's prose, not the adcom's actual evaluation of the student.
And if I have reservations about the way this segment was reported, the same applies to the rest of the article. Caveat lector.</p>

63

<p>Marite, thank you for your post #44. I'm despairing of my older son finding any soulmates in our public school system. It's very small, only about 100 kids/grade. In elementary school, he had lots of friends. At the time I underestimated his intellectual abilities, thinking that if he were really as unusual as some people had told me, he wouldn't be able to get along so well with almost everyone. Now, he has only a few friends. Fortunately, he is not disliked, but the kids seem baffled by him. There are frequent comments about how smart he is (which embarrass him) and questions like, "Do you really like reading those books?" He is never without a physics book, and has recently read The Longest Day and Nickel and Dimed. The only friend he has who operates anywhere near his intellectual level is a neighborhood boy who goes to a religious school. I have great hopes for CTY this summer, and I'm working on finding a math group for him.</p>

<p>About the "math genius" who was admitted to Middlebury, I wouldn't necessarily conclude that he would not have been admitted to MIT. An interview with an MIT grad might have gone very differently than one with a Middlebury grad. And MIT may be accustomed to seeing applicants who are not understood by high school faculty, and I'm sure they would evaluate the sources of negative comments when deciding how much weight to give them.</p>

<p>I didn't get the math joke, despite being a physicist, with a Ph.D. I'm quite good at math, and could get an 800 on the SAT without even thinking, but the kind of math that is done in math competitions is quite different than what I learned in college and grad school (e.g., calculus, differential equations, complex analysis). My son and I have been working on problem sets from different math competitions (we do them separately, then compare answers). I was disconcerted the other evening when we were doing an 8th grade Math Counts test. Most of the problems were trivial, and I could immediately write down the answer. But the last problem stumped me, and it took a long time for me to figure out how to do it and get the answer. Now that I know how to do it, I could do another similar problem quickly. I'm looking forward to learning some "math math", as opposed to "physics math", along with my son.</p>

64

<p>Oh, and thank you for posting the Rubin story, marite. It was wonderful!</p>

65

<p>"And if I have reservations about the way this segment was reported, the same applies to the rest of the article. Caveat lector."</p>

<p>It is funny how people may disagree on some issues, and yet end up with the same conclusions. That is exactly what I thought after reading the artcile the first time. Dissecting the article further did not do much to improve on my earlier conclusion that the main lesson -at least IMHO- is that applicants should really gather as much information as possible about a school before applying. For instance, Middlebury DOES encourage applicants to send exhibits of special talents and contact coaches. Other schools openly discourage the practice. </p>

<p>So, how could we translate Applicant -or beggar- Beware to match the Caveat Lector? Does Caveat Pauper work? :)</p>

66

<p>I think we should at least stop to consider the possibility that Middlebury was a poor fit for the math applicant, and the adcoms knew it, not because of his subpar social skills, but because of his superlative math ones.</p>

67

<p>One lesson: Do not send a collage of your horse.</p>

68

<p>Mini:</p>

<p>I agree with you. I do applaud Midd, though, for letting the student decide for himself where he wants to go, eventually. Too many colleges have their version of Tufts syndrome and reject stellar applicants on the assumption they will want to attend a more selective/prestigious school. It would be interesting to find out where else he's been admitted and where he decides to go.</p>

69

<p>In my experience, Midd is particularly devoid of the Tufts syndrome. They've admitted students who've clearly indicated in alumni interviews that Midd is not their first choice.</p>

70

<p>The writer sat in on ONE 2-hour admissions committee session. Gatekeepers, it's not.</p>

71

<p>"Too many colleges have their version of Tufts syndrome and reject stellar applicants on the assumption they will want to attend a more selective/prestigious school."</p>

<p>Absolutely true, but is that what happened at Middlebury? Depending on one's viewpoint, it seems that the less than stellar candidate was admitted and that the choice of schools was indeed taken away from students. I still wonder if the chosen roommate would consider himself lucky!</p>

72

<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>c'mon. any selection process involves taking choice away from those who are not selected. We don't know enough about the students' profile to decide how stellar was stellar. See my post #62. So I give Midd the benefit of the doubt. At least, it's adcom spent time discussing the case--more time than on any other app. I don't see any sign of callousness there, though I might agree with you on the soccer player.</p>

<p>As for the "lucky" roommate, I would have traded an anti-social one for the promiscuous tart I shared a room with. Sexile was not even an option.</p>

73

<p>marite...the answer is yes. The warning is phrased as such:</p>

<p>A school recommendation suggested that the student might need support, socially</p>

<p>In school to school communications, that is the CYA red flag. Imagine your son's school sending such a note with your son's app. </p>

<p>Through your son, marite, you've probably met dozens and dozens of young, male, super Math Whizzes. I probably know two dozen through my two sons--and another two dozen Grown Up Math Whizzes through academic associations. </p>

<p>Come to think of it, I wouldn't call a single one a 'social butterfly'. Nonetheless, NONE of them had warnings sent by their schools. Quite the contrary! Schools sing their highest praises for those boys. None of them failed courses for goodness sakes. They were, and are, true academic titans. No wonder schools clambor after them--as students and academics!</p>

<p>Please, I do not mean to generalize about Math talent. 99.9 % Math talent is extraordinary and something to be treasured. Nor do I think that Middlebury better take a few slackers to get some healthy men on campus. Male slackers aren't up to the course work at age 17/18. </p>

<p>My alarm goes to the acceptance of sub-par MALE candidates. Naturally big ole' GWU takes such students to fill their giganto classrooms and no one should be surprised when they flip out. Different story when eensy weensy super prestige Middlebury stoops so low so quickly...that's trouble with a capital T.</p>

<p>They couldn't find another qualified candidate to fill that slot. Granted, it could be a combination of factors,</p>

<p>a) There aren't as many male academic titans as we thought. (Duh...makes sense given the CC anecdotal evidence at graduations).</p>

<p>b) Middlebury has a rotten Math curriculum. (Find that hard to believe).</p>

<p>There isn't an instant solution, obviously. This could be the unintended result of coed education. We are still in the midst of that experiment, I'd say.</p>

<p>This story indicates the true dearth of 17 year old MALE academic talent. The scarcity is far greater than I'd imagined.</p>

74

<p>"b) Middlebury has a rotten Math curriculum. (Find that hard to believe)."</p>

<p>There's a broad line between saying that Middlebury has a rotten Math curriculum and saying it ain't no St. Olaf. (Meant that totally seriously - the percentage of math majors at Middlebury is under 2%, at St. Olaf over 7%, and St. Olaf is the bigger school. Bigger gap than that in math Ph.d. productivity.)</p>

75

<p>Thanks for clarifying, Cheers. Given that I think colleges are highly risk-averse, especially when it comes to mental health, I have to wonder what tipped the scales in that student's favor. And it's not the thought that Midd would gain in prestige by admitting that kid. As a previous poster noted, Midd is willing to admit students who are not likely to attend. </p>

<p>I do also wonder about what made that student apply to Midd. Much as I think colleges should foster all kinds of diversity, including curricular diversity, that student would be better off at St Olaf, as Mini suggests, or Colby, which has a very similar profile to Midd.</p>

76

<p>"I have to wonder what tipped the scales in that student's favor." </p>

<p>Maybe someone saw something in the essays that others didn't, and liked it. Maybe it would be better for this student to be a star - and have the opportunity to work closely with math professions - not fight for attention in a larger herd.</p>

77

<p>"I have to wonder what tipped the scales in that student's favor." </p>

<p>I wonder if it was a phone call to the GC to find out exactly what the low PQ score was about...and learning that it meant introversion and not mental illness.</p>

78

<p>True, this is a reported story <em>says cheers who avoid reporters at all costs</em>.</p>

<p>The back story could have been left out. </p>

<p>Bottom line though--if they had a better candidate, they would have taken him. That was the tip. They didn't have a better MALE candidate.</p>

79

<p>Cheers--I also think there was a shortage of this type of candidate. I would guess that math genius with social skills would trump math genius without them. Shortage of males, could be. I know that is the case at many schools--is it at Middlebury?</p>

80

<p>Cheers:</p>

<p>You are probably right. The M/F ratio at Midd is 48/52.</p>