A Pestilential Conundrum.

Paying for College
1

<p>I have a huge dilemma, and if you can give me some advice, I'd be most thankful:</p>

<p>I have a fixed amount of money available for my studies. I plan on doing my undergraduate in the U.S. and then going to Medical School there.</p>

<p>I can either choose to apply for financial aid (6/10 of the schools I applied to, however, are NOT need-blind) for my undergrad and then have money available for later.</p>

<p>EDIT: i would need ~50% in aid.
OR</p>

<p>I could not apply for financial aid now, have a better chance at getting into a top school, and then find a means to get scholarships or, if possible, U.S. citizenship, or some external grant once I plan on pursuing my later studies to ease the financial burden.</p>

<p>What do you think I should do?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Here's an idea....schools in the US, whether public or private, are funded one way or the other by hard working, risk taking, back breaking, sacrificing, come-to-the-rescue-of-everyone-around-the-world American citizens. Why is it that the US should be educating non-US students then? Once all US colleges have gone through their acceptance of US citizens and if there are any leftover seats, they might then be offered to non-US citizens.
Seriously, the hypocrisy about the US is enough. All the bad-mouthing...but we'd like to attend your schools! It's ridiculous. I know most people agree with this, but won't say it out of 'political-correctness'.</p>

3

<p>How selfless of you. And how open-minded. And how well you take into consideration what the foreign student might bring to your schools and your societies and the $13.3 billion these students add to the gross domestic product of the United States.
And how about the US students that study abroad?
The quotas are already established by schools. As are the financial aid policies. I am simply asking for a way to best deal with my particular situation.
Moreover, bad mouthing? Please don't generalize to such an extent. It's not only offensive but also reflects poorly on you.</p>

4

<p>Not selfless one iota. Listen, the vast majority come here and take, take, take. What do they give back? They come for the best education in the world, then leave, taking admissions spots that should go to US students; then take that knowledge and go back and compete against US companies. So why should US colleges HELP that outcome!?!? It's like shooting yourself in the foot. The world is a competitive place. If the US produces the best schools, then US citizens should be the ones allowed to take advantage of this level of education.</p>

<p>Here's an analogy, taken on a smaller level. Should IBM educate & train non-IBM employees, such as those from HP, only to have to compete against them? See how silly that would be? On a broader scale, US colleges would be doing the same thing.</p>

5

<p>Indeed. But I'll tell you what you're a myriad of...</p>

6

<p>Wait, jomass, what's the basis for your argument?</p>

<p>The only way that you can legally restrict access of an institution on the basis of nationality or citizenship (There are a LOT of American nationals that aren't citizens, btw) is to claim that the institution is federally operated.</p>

<p>While school's DO recieve Federal funding, they don't operate at the whim of the government (look up the ROTC policy of most ivies in relation to the Solomon Resolution).</p>

<p>Now, perfectly reasonable: Foreign students get whooped on a lot of Federally provided financial aid? Why? Because they can't be conscripted in a time of war, (Save 18 and up year old males that have registered with the Selective Service)</p>

<p>I hear where you're coming from, but your argument doesn't make sense.</p>

<p>Foreign contributions to the U.S. are precisely what allow us to have the empire we do.</p>

<p>Btw, I'm the product of foreign immigration to the U.S. </p>

<p>Grand uncle: U.S. Army airborne Major, tours in 'Nam/Bosnia/Afgh/Iraq/Kuwait
Cousin: U.S. Army, combat medic/surgeon (yes, you can get line transfers) Kuwait/Iraq
Other Cousin: U.S. Army, translator/interrogator, currently in Iraq
Father: U.S. Army Captain, surgeon.</p>

<p>All were born in India.</p>

<p>(Also, I plan on serving.....(NOT ARMY, lololol), and not applying for aid.....I was born here....At what point does your definition of 'foreign ness' end?)</p>

7

<p>Collegehopeful-
Your situation is much different. You were born in the US and as such are a US citizen. My issue is with the 'hit & run' types, who exploit the US education, then take off. They take, but don't give back.</p>

8

<p>I don't believe international students are even eligible for FEDERAL need based financial aid. They would be eligible for institutional funds only (if the college even disperses funds to international students...some do and some don't). Schools can disperse THEIR money any way they choose to. </p>

<p>Make sure you check the college websites carefully. Some schools are need blind for admissions...but the financial aid awards may not be the same as for students who are not internationals. And as noted, many schools are not need blind for admissions...and do not award financial aid to international students at all.</p>

9

<p>It is difficult for international students to be admitted to US medical schools, and even more difficult for them to find funding for medical education. Most US citizen medical students fund their education with loans and finish med school with something in the range of $200,000 of debt. Not to mention that there is no guarantee that you will be hired in the US and able to stay here. What makes you think you would be eligible for citizenship by then? Are you already a US permanent resident?</p>

<p>Frankly, as an international student with limited funding, you are much better off attending medical school in your home country (which is probably only 6 years anyway not 4 + 4 = 8), then coming to the US and taking the foreign medical board exams so that you can do your internships here. If you don't like the med schools in your home country, take a look around at other relatively inexpensive places to study. One friend of ours went to Costa Rica for med school and now is working in the US. He can work here because his mom is a US citizen and he was awarded permanent residence based on her citizenship.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

10

<p>I have no expertise whatsoever in financial aid for International students, but when I see A Pestilential Conundrum I cannot resist taking a look. And then to see the rantings of another poster, I cannot resist commenting in a more positive way.</p>

<p>I would say look into ALL possible funding sources as an undergraduate, because there is very little aid available for graduate medical studies (International or domestic). The thought seems to be that future doctors are likely to have higher-than-average incomes and therefore can afford to take on a great deal of debt. There is a thread at the top of this forum with information about International student funding.</p>

<p>One thing I looked for in choosing a university was that it had a higher population of International students. It adds more depth and a world view to education to have comment and input from students with widely different backgrounds. I am an American student who, like many American students, plans to study abroad, and I hope to encounter a more welcoming attitude than displayed by the comments of one poster in this thread.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

11

<p>Thank you for your replies! </p>

<p>Ironically, it's bigoted people like jomass that incite bad-mouthing and people like tocollege that make you want to move across the Atlantic.</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

12

<p>One interesting fact about the debate on intl students & US schools:</p>

<p>My DD is applying for PhD program- the ones in the US primarily fund any student who is admitted no matter the citizenship. In my DD's field there are some great programs in the UK & OZ, but those programs charge every one tuition plus an international non resident tuition. So, any UK/OZ student who comes to the US for PhD is fully funded, any US student going there is faced with paying dramatically higher fees for the privilege vs. remaining in the US.</p>

<p>I have seen the same thing with Canadian schools & undergrad, Canadian friends can come to many schools here (Colgate/Princeton/Brown/etc) and receive large amounts of institutional finaid, yet a US student going there, even one who merits aid, would not be given any.</p>

<p>It is interesting that the US is rounding criticized around the world, yet so many intls still want to be educated here and those same countries are not interested in ac actual exchange of students, not interested in Americans studying there except where they function as a cash cow.</p>

<p>Of course, none of that applies to Med school or any professional schools like that.</p>

13

<p>Here comes the devil's advocate in support of Jomass. Both Jomass and Thumper1 have it right. </p>

<p>Jomass is expressing frustration that US taxpayer dollars would be used to subsidize the education of foreign students at the expense of American students. It's hard to argue against that. There is a limited amount of government-provided dollars available to subsidize education. Since the government-provided dollars come from the governed, and since the foreigners are not among those governed, Jomass's frustration comes from a very real place. </p>

<p>Thumper1 is also right, pointing out that private colleges and universities create their own endowments and can use their limited scholarship resources however they choose. If a school wants to create a highly diverse international population, without inviting solely those international students whose wealth affords them full pay, a school may choose to do so. It would be up to those who fund the endowment to decide if that is the direction in which they wish to direct their giving.</p>

14

<p>I think I read that Stanford funds its FA for internationals solely with donations from its international alumni. That makes sense, but limits the amount of FA available for internationals on a year-to-year basis.</p>

15

<p>At least I don't have to think about this. In Sweden, education is free for everyone, including international students. So any American willing to come here, can. I don't really see why anyone would, but still. </p>

<p>But we've had the same debate here; should international students at least pay something to go to school here, since they don't pay taxes?</p>

16

<p>Jomass......I don't think you get the point I was making.</p>

<p>All of the people I listed were born in India (not myself), and all fought for this country because they loved it.</p>

<p>Your entire argument hinges on the alleged loyalties of people that come here to study....</p>

<p>The "WORK LIKE NUTS, THEN GO BACK TO MOTHERLAND TO REVERSE ENGINEER ALL THAT I HAVE LEARNED, AHAHAHHA, SILLY AMERICANS!" type, is much much less common than you think.</p>

<p>I argue that by opening our country's education system up (THE BEST, btw), we create opportunities for people to work for us.</p>

<p>Case in point: The people I mentioned/me.</p>

<p>I wouldn't be here if my family didn't love America so much ( Do you know many people that VOLUNTEERED to go to Vietnam? Yeah, I thought so).</p>

<p>And they didn't come here thinking they would enlist/stay.
They came here thinking they would supplement their M.B.B.S. degree.</p>