<p>Smith College does not serve onion rings, taking a stance against the creeping number of creepy ranking systems, thereby demonstrating that it's above it all.</p>
<p>You adults are way to critical with your remarks about Dartmouth's "lax alcohol policies" </p>
<p>I visited Dartmouth along with HYP and GU for 3 days at each school. Honestly, If I was a pyschiatrist I would have more problems with the HYP kids than the Dartmouth kids, (in contrast to the general consensurs in here seems like they will all become alcoholics) </p>
<p>I am willing to bet that most have you never stayed overnight with a student at a campus and saw the how the student really acts away from his or her parent on campus, compared to how other students act on another campus.</p>
<p>To make some broad generalizations,for example, on my visit at Princeton many of the kids seemed extremely stressed. Almost everyone pulled one or more all-nighterseach week, many staying up to intensely study on the weekends. On the contrast, Dartmouth, although extremely academicly intense, was very laid back. Students I met at Dartmouth hadn't memorized the SATs of their roomates (Yale) or worry that what ever they did during the weekend would wind up in a newspaper which publically humilates their actions (Yale) The entire town of Hanover was entirely refreshing after making my rounds through most of the Ivies ( not to mention the classes were some of my favorites at Dartmouth)</p>
<p>I have some more news for you. Most likely If your son or daughter is in college, they have alcohol in their room. Even if you KNOW they don't drink, they still have alcohol in their room. This was true whether at Dartmouth, Harvard, Georgetown, or any other school for that matter.</p>
<p>Frankly, If I was a concerned parent being picky on the alcohol policies of an Ivy, I would be more critical of Princeton, where the eating clubs are not bound to follow campus regulations, there is no limit of the number of kegs in the houses, and beer flows freely without any question.</p>
<p>I have stayed overnight with my daughter but mostly I try not to- Her sister who was 11 when her sister was a freshman has stayed overnight about 4 times each year ( older D is now senior)</p>
<p>I don't really think alcohol use and further education are related and I haven't said anything about Dartmouth only to ask if wasn't Animal HOuse written by an alum in reference to some of the times he had there.
It doesn't bother me that kids drink in college- heck apparently a freshman at my daughters college had a glass of wine with his dinner in commons
big whoop
What I do have a problem with is a mindset that encourages party till you puke mentality- not the standard atmosphere at my D college :)</p>
<p>I won't comment on whether a more laid back environment is better. Some kids do better in an environment that is laid back. These kids are likely to do their best with support and encouragement. Other kids are looking for a little more stress. They do better when they are challenged and pushed and need to do a few all nighers. These are factors which need to be evaluated and become part of the decision when a student is looking for a college with the best "fit."</p>
<p>When is comes to alcohol policies, I don't think there is any circumstance where lax policies are a good fit. Too many colleges have serious drinking problems and do not take action. At many schools drinking events are the main form of entertainment and alcohol is everywhere including the dorms. The arguments are always made that there are other things for the students to do and some don't drink at all. We also hear there is nothing wrong with moderate drinking (some wine with dinner) and how the alcohol culture is different in Europe. All of that may be true; however, it appears clear that we have serious problems at most colleges. Many underaged college students develop serious drinking problems and those who don't develop serious problems are also impacted.</p>
<p>If you read the official policies, every college has policies against underage drinking. In fact all of the policies are very similar. The problem is lack of consistent enforcement.</p>
<p>I have not read all the recent posts on this thread but it occurs to me that we might ask ourselves why we place such a high premium on schools producing high numbers of PhDs anyway. Graduate students in the liberal arts, particularly, are setting themselvs up, in some cases, for years of frustration in terms of getting a job in a desirable location, pay that is notably low in relation to their preprofessional peers, and a lifetime of playing politics in academia. There is an almost constant underlying concern that their field of specialization (and in some cases their own gender or ethnicity will not be considered valuable long enough for them to get tenure or for their tendure to last until funding runs out. It is amazing that the prospect of such an uncertain lifestyle doesn't drive PhD-bound students to drink. (And for those on this board who do findthe pursuit of a PhD an especially pure and admirable goal, it is good to keep in mind that a successful college professor can be about as cloistered from the concerns of the "real world" as any other privileged person--think of the job security, flexible and limited hours, ample vacation time, travel opportunities, and a comunity of like-minded privileged peers, often in a setting quite devoid of meaningful socioeconomic diversity.)</p>
<p>Micro-managing-nervous-Nellies, one and all. Give it a rest, says I. </p>
<p>These one-ups-man-ship threads are all twisted versions of the classic, common and tired, which of these colleges is more prestigious head-bumpin debates common to the College-Search forum. Here, however, your average helio-parent presses such issues into the nether-regions of self-righteous moralizing. </p>
<p>The helio-parent steps out of the saloon wearing imaginary 6-guns/gats loaded with plastic-statistics and rubber-surveys and not a small amount of righteous (grandstanding) moral indignation. Having graduated from milk-straws and spit-balls some time ago, they long to stand up to the bully that once-upon-a-time kicked sand in their face, or incarcerated them in their own locker. </p>
<p>This sort of arch sermonizing was quite fashionable in the pre-prohibition days; what goes around comes around with a fashionable change of clothes. Yahoo! Wow Nellie!</p>
<p>mattmom (#225), when your child has the experience of being taught in math or science by a TA who can barely command the English language you may want to consider the fact that America is not producing nearly enough doctoral students in some fields. Universities have done an increasingly good job of teaching English to grad students, or screening them in advance for their ability to teach in English. But the shortage of American scientists in an increasingly global competitive marketplace for research and development is worrisome. It is true as you say that in some fields there is still a glut of new PhD's. But that's a specific matter.</p>
<p>Further, although I don't have exact statistics at hand, I think it's true that roughly 30-40% of all PhD faculty currently teaching at American institutions will be reaching retirement age within the next 10 years. Who is going to replace them? (Part of the answer: universities abroad.) And when do they need to begin college? (Now.) </p>
<p>By no means do I want to sound xenophobic about this. Science itself is international, and high quality science is done around the world. But it's also true that America as a country needs to stay competitive, and its own workforce and the teachers of that workforce, need to be as good as they can be.</p>
<p>I have not read all the recent posts on this thread but it occurs to me that we might ask ourselves why we place such a high premium on schools producing high numbers of PhDs anyway.</p>
<p>I haven't seen ANYONE suggest that schools that are intensive enough to attract students who are interested in the academic life- are better for all students-
But if we are allowed to consider sports programs as a feature in which our student is interested, we can consider whether we want a school with a large alumni network as in many universities, a well recognized name whether in the US or abroad, or even a school that is segregated by sex or intent as in the womens colleges or military schools, than why does it seem like it is a slap in the face to some, to ask about a school that seems to have a higher percentage of students who continue studies after education.
At my daughter school where the percentage is admittedly high, the undergrad focus is quite broad. Very specialized classes are not often available, because they just don't have the numbers of students to offer them. Some classes which sound great had to be canceled because of less than 5 students who registered. But maybe that is what your student is looking for- to have a broader based education for undergrad, then realizing if more narrowly focused classes are wanted, they might have to be relegated to post BA studies.
I apologize if anyone feels upset because their choice of school isn't on the list, but it can be a helpful piece of information, along with all the other pieces of information .
If you are not interested, then don't use it- but are others getting bent out of shape because some talk about what schools are more represented on Wall street?</p>
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hoedown-- I think I speak for many of us-</p>
<p>thank you for that pungent and penetrating analysis.
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<p>If I had a PhD in a more rigorous field, would I be better able to tell how much sarcasm is in that response? :)</p>
<p>"If I had a PhD in a more rigorous field, would I be better able to tell how much sarcasm is in that response?" </p>
<p>Only if you went to a small liberal arts college for your undergrad education. :)</p>
<p>Listen, I know an Applied Physics Phds who work with me, for me etc.......not to put down Applied Physics or whatever (which is a rigorous field?) but he did not know the first thing about working in a group, working as a team, about being agile, nimble, creative....all he did was grumble all day. So I don't know if the rigor of the PhD says anything about future success in life. I know, I know you guys are joking and all...and my son goes to a small liberal arts college but is thinking of majoring in Econ and then onto business related field....so...</p>
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[quote]
Only if you went to a small liberal arts college for your undergrad education.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I did! Only it wasn't a very selective one. It's a wonder I lead a happy life.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I did! Only it wasn't a very selective one. It's a wonder I lead a happy life.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>At least you went to an LAC, which according to CC Parents forum is the key to all happiness. I had the misfortune of attending only large research universities, which means I've been defying the inevitable for over 30 years now by somehow being happy and successful.</p>
<p>so I guess thats why Harvard and Ann Arbor are having trouble getting applicants
Perhaps the government can give them a grant to attract somemore so they don't go under?</p>
<p>hoedown, not sarcastic at all! In fact, I've just used the Onion ring factor to evaluate my son's university and have discovered, now that I've paid the last tuition check, that it is much further down the quality list than I've been led to believe. I am fearful that his professors have been dumbing down their lectures; I am concerned that his future employers will know the truth; frankly, much of his experiences there to date should be discounted. </p>
<p>In fact, his roommate is the ultimate pre-professional and a fellow student to be avoided at all costs.... an ROTC grad, he's been preparing for four years to go and defend our country with no thought given to a PhD, the Preppy Index, the Life of the Mind, etc. As an athlete, he has, no doubt, heard of Williams but may not know of the intellectual superiority of Swarthmore and Smith. Yikes!</p>
<p>We found out that S can use food points for Sushi. That must count for something........</p>
<p>..........it was a joke FountainSiren!!!!</p>
<p>Coureur, you don't get it...just wait until someday when True Happiness unexpectedly hits and you recognize the difference. :)</p>
<p>( oh dear) that reminds me of a character on 6ft under who was unsure if she had reached "fulfillment" or not, and then discovered that she was able to tell the difference when she did ;)</p>
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<p>according to CC Parents forum is the key to all happiness.</p>
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<p>Bwah! Very true, NSM. I transferred out of Bryn Mawr along with about 10% of my freshman class, but from this board you'd think I was the only freak who ever found a tiny LAC miserably dull and cloistered.</p>