A shake-up in elite admissions: U-Chicago drops SAT/ACT testing requirement

Applying to College
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Someone would need to point me to where H shows minority candidates are less qualified- without it being another bit about testing scores.

GJ, what’s the difference? If they tell the rejected, it’s public “formula” for the others, as well. And the “pressure” is not about making apps easier. Or the standard of thinking any less. What many schools said about the coalition app is to make the application process something considered and collected over 3 years of hs. And kindness" is no new concept. Same old “compassionate activity” they’ve wanted to see for a long time. More than random hours with NHS.

A kid who spends a summer cramming for a better score? (Sometimes, because an anon hs kid on CC told him he has to take that 750 to a 780?) Don’t you see the silliness in that, to begin with? The stats focus, the summer spent cramming? Good chance this kid is off track, by his own limits. Sorry. Does Harvard really need to tell him, no, sonny, your score is good enough? Or, nevr will be? Or does Wharton or Stanford need to tell kids how many of their competition are also programming their own apps? Or can we expect better?

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HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213 th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren’t quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron’s fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away…

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Minorities were more much more likely to be admitted than non-minorities based on holistic admissions, including all factors except race and gender as control variables in Harvard’s internal regression.

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Hated Vonnegut, loved Catcher in the Rye- the absurd.

Someting there makes sense, JBStillFlying. The 5k is a little larger. Some of us think H’s is probably upwards of 10k who get past first cut.

But then you get down to second (and more) reads. The reality hits the fan.

And the more apps you get, the more kids scattershot, the more the work load against budget and time, the more kids don’t make it past first cut.

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@lookingforward - sorry in case you have to repeat something you said earlier - but when will the other top schools also go test-optional?

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@lookingforward

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/16/01/turning-tide-inspiring-concern-others-and-common-good-through-college-admissions

Harvard itself is saying they want to “reduce achievement pressure” on today’s kids. I suggested one way they could do this. You haven’t yet told me why that would be a bad idea. You and I might think spending the summer cramming for one more retake is silly, but thousands of desperate kids and their parents think otherwise. Maybe the should know better, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be helped.

You wrote:

I’m not sure what you mean here. What does this have to do with letting people know when “more” isn’t “better” according to their own metrics? Of course, its possible that more IS better. That the 1590 really does give a tiny boost over the 1550. In which case, the students pushing themselves for one more point aren’t really being silly, are they?

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Lol, how would I know if other top colleges will go TO?

I do think some of the changes UChi made will expand the learning opps.

GJ, don’t know if I can answer it. “Achievement pressure.” To me, that’s different than the pressure of the uncertainty of where you will land for college, researching and filling out the paperwork. The bad part is the simplistic hierarchical thinking, that one must have a better score, more clubs founded, more money collected via a fundraiser, not just an internship, but your name on a published paper. It’s the thinking (or lack) that makes kids think writing an app is special, making some money on it makes one a better candidate, and that making gobs of money is the bestest tip.

Otoh, the good part IS the striving. Not resting on your laurels, not sticking with the same old hs box. Growing, with challenges, giving, with meaning, multitasking well.

They use the expression, “greater ethical engagement,” which is different than just racking up hours. In fact, it’s a committment of it’s own sort. And implies wise choices, responsibilities and some impact.

I don’t really care if some colleges spell out what it takes. Many publics state, x.xx gpa, test scores at yyyy threshold. It’s a different matter when you are aiming for a tippy top. They’re trying to do more than look at test scores, they’re trying to glean drives, see the actions you chose (or not) and the level of thinking. As well as, good will and “…caring, responsible to their communities, and committed to justice.”

They’re looking for kids who do not need their hands held. Life at a highly competitive college isn’t a cakewalk. Many see the “competition” as for an admit, while the colleges look at the four years of competition, once there.

ps. a 1550 is fine. A 1590 won’t give any tip if you don’t have the “more” that school wants. Sure, sometimes, if only one can get the nod, if two are equal (more than stats, the rest of the picture,) the higher scorer may get it. BUT, don’t forget the insitutional needs- geo diversity, balance across majors, gender balance, and more. All these things affect final decisions.

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346; [quote] I wonder what the test optional schools would do if USNWR suddenly started penalizing test optional in the selectivity section of the rankings.

[/quote]

@gallentjill,
USNews does penalize schools for not reporting over a certain percentage of scores and of course they’re not allowed to pick and choose which to report. They have to either report only scores from those who submit or scores for all students. The penalty for not reporting enough scores is greater than the hit they suffer from showing lower standardized test scores.

This leaves test-optional schools with an interesting dilemma-

A. Report only the scores of students who submit. Take a hit from USNews, appear like you’re trying to artificially inflate your scores but look like your average scores are higher.

B. Report all scores (Bowdoin, Bates, and I believe at least some other schools require students who did not submit scores with the application to do so at matriculation). Don’t take a USNews hit. Look like you’re being more honest, but look like your students are less intelligent to people who think standardized test scores measure intelligence well and encourage submission of scores by students whose low scores will put them at a big disadvantage.

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They can also choose to require tests but weight them a bit less but have a view as to minimum scores etc.

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Perhaps UChicago thinks there’s a little bit of room to play with these ranges on the low end so won’t have an issue reporting the 100% matriculated range to US News. You can have disparate section scores but overall a not-so-bad SAT/ACT that won’t drop the composite average or the 25 - 75 all that much. So the overall reported impact will be small and not anything to worry most who are comparing scores across schools. On the positive side, they will reach a larger applicant pool and increase selectivity. My guess is that they will report scores for 100% matriculated, banking on the drop being small and, while negative, not anything to bump them out of their current slot when offset with the increased applications from the new “test optional” policy.

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@sue22 I don’t think they report all scores of students who SUBMIT, it looks like they report all scores of students who are ACCEPTED. I doubt it will change much.

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@CU123

I believe they only have to report those attending. But open to be shown I am wrong for sure

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@JBStillFlying : There are so many factors influencing the number of students applying to each school. The take-away is that UChicago’s applicant number can drop quickly because a large number are “manufactured”. If people start to realize that UChicago admits the majority of its students from its EDs, much more students might ignore the school at RD, which might result in much smaller total number of applicants. I can’t find any other “elite” school which does not tell how many students are admitted at EDs. Without ED rounds admissions number, none of other admissions statistics has any meaning. I have shown some examples previously.

Here is UChicago’s No Application Fee policy …

Well, EVERYONE CAN APPLY FOR FINANCIAL AID, I am wondering how many actually PAID to apply to UChicago?? :-/

Those “free” applicants should be discounted when they are counted toward the total number of applicants. There are so many ways to play the game. The admission rate starts to become a joke.

This year 2/3 of the “dragon” Asian kids are applying to colleges. (Year 2000 is the year of the dragon on lunar calendar. Asian people love to have dragon kids.) For those uninitiated, this year’s huge number of dragon kids cause low admissions rate for all top schools. Many top schools have as many as 1/4 of their applicants categorized as Asian (Brown actually releases its applicant pool statistics). UChicago is stats-focused and has a large Asian community and a large Asian applicant pool. Two years from now when all the “dragon” kids are done with college application, let’s see how many applicants UChicago will have. They are obviously trying to find new sources of applicants. Dropping SAT/ACT requirement is just part of the game plan.

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Maybe my rising senior should take a gap year!

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The good news is 2/3 of the dragon kids are done with college applications this year :smiley: If you see the numbers of students graduating this year from Southern CA, many schools have 20% or more students compared with last year’s number.

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“Well, EVERYONE CAN APPLY FOR FINANCIAL AID, I am wondering how many actually PAID to apply to UChicago??”

We are a family who didn’t pay as the application fee was waived. My daughter applied for and received fin. aid. this year.

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Bingo! @nrtlax33 for the post # 366. That alone should end this thread.

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Except as it was accurately pointed out, UChicago’s number of applicants actually went up, not down this year…

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A joke among kids is that you just need to CLICK the box that you intend to apply for financial aids and you don’t need to pay application fee … even if your family earn way too much to qualify for financial aids.

I can’t stress enough that UChicago is fooling the majority of its audience. Just read [this](https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2018/5/3/university-chicagos-acceptance-rate-plummets-7-2-c/), you will find they can give you any number you like … Acceptance Rate Plummets to 7.2 Percent for Class of 2022 … without telling you how many were admitted at ED I and ED II,

That is the end goal. So NYU med school is ranked #3 best medical school this year, anyone actually thinks they are suddenly #3 quality :-/

So the regular decision admit rate was 4 percent.

The real question is how many apply at EDs and RD? 4% RD admission rate is among the lowest for all schools. Without its free application fee policy, I wonder how many would pay up. You can also see my assertion that UChicago admitted the majority of its students at EDs. Notice that even the 4% number was not intended to be made public.

Regarding dragon kids, don’t forget the largest group of international applicants are from China. I guess they are all applying for financial aids – all free applicants. Now you see why UChicago starts to get worried what will happen in two years, not to mention that they might not decide to come to USA while trade war is going on and their visas are limited by the new policy.

Honesty is the best policy. Other true elite schools are not doing ED II, are not hiding EDs statistics, are not pretending they don’t care about SAT/ACT, do not need to have free applicant fee policy, are transparent with their admission statistics … So UChicago is indeed “different” :-/

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“Regarding dragon kids, don’t forget the largest group of international applicants are from China. I guess they are all applying for financial aids – all free applicants.”

  • But as their acceptance is not need-blind, many of them don't apply for fin. aid out of concerns it will affect their chances.

Edit/update: Also, the application fee is a drop in the bucket. It’s like Blinds.com replacing our blinds for free because we mismeasured - doesn’t happen much, and worth it for the good PR.