<p>What do you think is wrong with America's school system? Seventeen-year-old Joseph A. Ryan, Jr. believes it has everything to do with student motivation. Simply put, it is missing. Agree? If so, how do we begin to address this grave situation?</p>
<p>A</a> student's point of view: Kids don't want to learn Schools of Thought - CNN.com Blogs</p>
<p>Interesting! He made the statement that kids are handed everything. Do you think there is a correlation between not wanting to learn and not valuing money, at least in middle to upper-middle class families?</p>
<p>I have one child who loves to learn. I have one child who loves to play video games or hang out with friends. Why are they opposites? IDK</p>
<p>I definitely agree with what this kid is saying. He basically described my school in a nutshell.</p>
<p>As far as things being handed to them, I think it’s an idea that “my parents didn’t have to work that hard to get what we have, and this is good enough for me.” Kids don’t strive to be engineers, or doctors, or research scientists…they just want a decent life. And to them, working hard in high school is not a better way to accomplish that goal. Unfortunately, this is sort of shortsighted. What if they can’t find a good-paying job with only a high school diploma? Will they go to community college? </p>
<p>I think it’s just a matter of maturity. It’s been engrained from somewhere that high school doesn’t really matter and that mommy and daddy will support them until they “grow up and figure it out.” I guess it doesn’t turn out too badly for most of them…</p>
<p>This guy just said, in less than a minute, everything I’ve thought about education since I was conscious enough to know there was a problem. I think poor teaching is to blame, but not nearly to the extent that we make it out to be. At the end of the day, education is a meet-me-halfway thing. The teacher has to know enough about the subject and enjoy it enough to convey both the information AND the enthusiasm to the student, but at the same time, the student has to want to learn this stuff instead of just seeing it as a grade that they have to get, which really is how most students see it. Sadly this view that education is somehow supposed to be a means to an end, especially at the secondary school level, is quite common and anyone who suggests otherwise is usually accused of “hippie-talk.”</p>
<p>Something that no one seems to talk about is the quality of teachers. I do think that is an issue. When was the last time you heard a really smart kid say he/she wants to be a teacher, not a professor, a K-12 teacher?</p>
<p>For my generation’s teachers, the very best jobs for women were as teachers and nurses. Our teachers were the brightest women of their generation. Today, education does not attract the best students. This problem is aggravated by classroom issues like disciplining students. It will get worse before it gets better.</p>
<p>This kids sums it up really well.</p>
<p>At my school, there are a lot of kids that have a bad attitude at school. They think that classes are just doing homework (or copying it off of someone else because they have better things to do with their time), regurgitating it, and just plowing through projects and assignments without feeling any passion about it. I don’t think that everyone has to love school and be optimistic and excited about it (let’s face it, even i’ve really strongly disliked some classes and it’s hard to be positive about them), but a lot of people I know are miserable because they see it as a means to an end. They think that if they just power through AP’s and honors classes robotically, they will be the ideal candidate for whatever top school they want (or maybe are expected/urged) to go to.</p>
<p>And a lot of them think “oh, I deserve this grade because I did XYZ,” and a lot of them blame the teachers, never themselves. I’ve heard so many nasty and appalling things come out of my peer’s mouths about teachers that it just disgusts me. I do not mean to stereotype based off of social class but a lot of the kids that do this (and most of the kids in my school) are upper middle-class (I am not). I know so many people who are miserable and get no sleep or skip meals and are just all around depressed because of this approach.</p>
<p>Maybe some of it has to do with the system. I know in middle school I had some teachers that made me never want to come to school again because of their attitudes and how they treated me, and it took a teacher later on in HS that was on the opposite end of that spectrum to make me love it again. Some people just don’t like school for one reason or another - having a little brother with ADHD who does not get along with just about all of the teachers he ever had and peers has helped me to understand that. </p>
<p>I think the biggest failure of our school system is the existing cultural view (among students) that it is just a means to an end. Teachers tell us that what we learn in the classroom is not just content material but valuable life skills such as critical thinking and decision-making, but there’s always a kid or two who visibly scoffs at that as soon as it comes out of the teacher’s mouth. </p>
<p>and @toledo; given my experience, I think there is a correlation, yes. I have never met so many people that have things handed to them ($100 for every A, or getting a car just for fun because ‘you deserve it’) until middle school or so. It used to make me bitter but seeing some of my former friends becoming shells of themselves because they’re so exhausted, it just makes me feel bad. And it makes me feel bad that the girl who got the shiny new car because ‘she deserves it’ has had this behavior ingrained in her head thanks to her parents.</p>
<p>Darn, I was thinking of submitting something similar on iReport, but then I got too lazy.
So, I graduated high school a few weeks ago, and I was probably going to say something similar. </p>
<p>Even yesterday when I was talking to a physics teacher and a college lab instructor, I basically said the problem is most of my peers don’t give a crap. However, I’m optimistic that everyone has the potential to feel a natural high from learning something. It’s an innate human trait and that there’s something in the high school environment that breeds laziness. The curriculum is often shallow and focused on memorizing even long after memorizing as a primary learning method has long been discredited. Proofs aren’t taught in math classes anymore and somehow we’re rarely taught to see deeper connections between ideas and formulas. As a result, there’s no focus on mastery, but on simply passing, leaving holes in students’ education early on that follow them to high school. Some stop caring out of frustration. </p>
<p>In my high school I’m bothered on the emphasis on sports and pop culture everywhere. Our academic extracurriculars are very weak, but we’re the top D1 high school in the region and many kids just go to school for the sports. Sports are good and healthy, but should they really be the focus? Why can’t we get people as enthusiastic about calculus, physics, literature, and history?</p>
<p>We set everyone up to fail. You’re intelligence is based on how many things you can memorize and not on anything that’s important in this world. Do you really believe it’s the students faults for not being interested in “Why miosis is an important factor to cellular division”? Give me a break. And everyone acts like students are becoming progressively worse in school. Puh-lease. In the past we used to hit them with sticks and other objects if they do badly. Now they just don’t see any real incentive. They’re not blinded by the lie the public school system tells them about getting their 4 year degree then going off to your dream job. When the truth is, there are plenty of people who go off to trade schools or community colleges and have better lives than the kids who went to 4 year institutions. And many students realize that and don’t really give a damn about high school. What’s the point if they’re just going to a trade school. And really. Who the hell would be interested in the crap they teach at school! Like I said they set you up to fail! Science and math becomes increasingly harder and harder and some students JUST DON’T HAVE THE ABILITY to do those type of courses. They’re smarter in other fields. They do other things. But we force them to do super hard math and sciences even they some of them can’t do it was well as others. And of course the ones who can do it well get an ego thinking they’re smarter than people who can’t. Which isn’t true. Intelligence is not measured by how much you can memorize. Our society has changed and our school system has to change with it. Our school system is living in the 1800s while we’re living in the 21st century. We have to go to more hands on learning and do things that matter to what WE want to do in life.</p>
<p>Anyways if you have an hour to waste watch this video: [THE</a> COLLEGE CONSPIRACY - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)</p>
<p>We haven’t failed our public school system. It has failed us.</p>
<p>Anyways have fun with your debt while one of the “stupid” kids in your high school is making 70k a year from his plumbing business.</p>
<p>And as a result, the education in high schools is diluted for everyone. There are still kids who want to be scientists, doctors, professors, and teachers, and they are just as hurt by this. </p>
<p>On the other hand, my town has a pretty big public vocational high school that prepares kids for things such as welding, plumbing, and cooking, and yet those that go in the regular academically focused high school aren’t any better off. Of course some people in my high school would be better off at the vocational school, but many don’t realize that’s a legitimate path, and the problem seems to be deeper than that. Again, I see it as a lack of focus on mastery and a lack focus on depth. Yes, we are taught meiosis, but are we ever exposed to the deeper biochemistry involved, presented with problems in which knowledge of meiosis applies, or taught about its evolution? No, we’re just taught it’s a variation of mitosis that makes gametes and we memorize the steps, which we usually forget the day after the exam. It’s no surprise our students are bored.</p>
<p>I heard someone comment this morning that we tend to place value on things based on the effort required to obtain them. Just a thought.</p>
<p>The college prep vs. voc tech thing is not relevant here. Sorry, but the ability to read at an adult level and do basic algebra is not that much to ask. That’s why public K-12 education exists.</p>
<p>I disagree, it’s part of the issue because lately there’s a push to get everyone in college, such as when my school decided to get rid of “business” level and made it so “college prep” is the lowest level. However, the whole voc vs. prep issue isn’t as central as many claim it is. </p>
<p>Fundamentally, high school is way too easy and boring. Rather than underestimating everyone’s intellect and dumbing things down, why don’t we challenge our youth in a way that gets them to think and ponder. Here everyone from the Harvard bound valedictorian to the 1.0 GPA screw up seems to hate their pre-college education (hate is a strong word for some, but high school isn’t exactly the best 4 years). Even for the truly motivated, education is about jumping through hoops to attain a certain level of recognition, making it a stressful, and de-motivating process. As a result, only those who end up trying to make the most out of college actually realize the real benefits of education. However, the lag of public secondary education is starting to affect the quality of many colleges as well. </p>
<p>My parents, on the other hand, who were raised in Eastern Europe, both claimed to have loved their pre-college education. Sure they were top students, but I’m truly jealous of their education. What they had was much engaging even than the AP-level curriculum I had by the end of my high school career.</p>
<p>"What do you think is wrong with America’s school system? "</p>
<p>-I agree with motivation theory. But I do not believe it is a personal problem. The problem is the kids are not challenged enough, not even close, nobody would be attracted to busy paper filling activity that require no brain, no thinking, just time consuming. School needs to motivate by making program much more challenging. Kids should look forward to math problem just like to winning game on computer. there is no excitement where there is no challenge.</p>
<p>@pjLloyd100 I think your comment shows a ready willingness to blame your lack of success in education on others without even remotely thinking of the problem. The system isn’t the only thing that failed. The students fail themselves. Most students are satisfied with being complacent grade-chasers, not caring about learning anything. If you’ve ever asked “When am I ever going to need this?” Then you are a part of the problem. The thing we don’t understand in the states is that education is not an “investment” unless that “investment” is in a properly functioning democracy. The role of education is to educate, there is no other reason. Until one gets to a certain level (Maybe the age of 16-18) education should be about developing intellectually, not learning a trade to help one make money. To answer your question, unfortunately, yes it is the students’ fault for not being interested in the function of mitosis in life development. You can put the blame solely on teachers but this is AMERICA! If one had a deep problem with formal education there are so many other resources by which to educate oneself. I grew up in Africa and the quality of education was slim-to-none despite my having gone to a private school. Teachers were almost completely ignorant of their own fields and asking any questions in class was completely abhored because the chances were the teachers wouldn’t know the answers and they didn’t want to look like idiots so they make you feel bad for asking questions. But that didn’t stop me from educating myself even though I had little resources. The average public library here in America has more books than the average bookstore in Africa. The internet has a near infinite store of information and it is dirt cheap and super fast here. So your assertion that this is entirely the fault of “the system” is quite facile because there are so many ways by which one who truly wants to learn can learn in this country. The real problem is the mindset of people like you that education must be preparing one for a job. That is really just a fringe benefit of an educated society and if we continue to raise a generation of technicians who just know how to solve for x as opposed to raising an educated generation that understands how, why, and when to solve for x, and as a matter of fact, how we got to the point of solving for x and what x signifies, then we will be stuck relying on foreign talent to bolster ourselves. Unfortunately, the problem of fixing the teaching standards and hiring truly capable teachers is relatively easy when compared to the problem of capturing the attentions of students in the Facebook - Call of Duty era</p>
<p>I agree, motivation is the main problem with America’s education system. Motivation is the key aspect to education. </p>
<p>One problem is that a lot of the responsibility for failure lies with the teachers, instead of the students and that the teachers underestimate the students. In my school at least, especially in lower level classes (although it does happen in a few higher level classes as well), the teachers try to dumb things down and make things easier for students, since some students might not be doing well. What they don’t realize is that those students aren’t doing badly because they need more help or are incapable, they’re doing badly because they don’t care. Students also take advantage of the lower level classes being there, because they know they can get away with being lazy. Remedial and even CP classes are, frankly, pathetic. They don’t teach anything that the students won’t forget for one thing, and they assume that there are students who genuinely struggle and need those classes. I understand those classes existing for students with mental illnesses or special needs, but not for everyone. If you put those kids in the Accelerated or Honors courses, they’ld be perfectly fine, and they’ld be forced to actually learn. </p>
<p>Not only are some kids trying to be lazy, some legitimately believe that they’re trying their hardest. They spend maybe thirty minutes on studying for a test, and they think that they’ve truly accomplished something amazing. They look up to the kids with 3.5+ GPAs and think “wow, I wish I could be like that!” when the truth is that they could be, if they put as much work in.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that kids should have to take more higher level classes just for the sake of doing extra work, but I truly believe that it would create more motivation to learn. One thing I’ve noticed in lower level classes is that there are no connections made to “big ideas,” the main mode of learning is memorization (which causes students to forget information right after the test), and students don’t have to put much effort in (even though they are told that they are putting in a lot of effort) leading them to believe that accomplishing more isn’t possible and discouraging them to truly educate themselves. After all, how can you expect someone who has never been educated to understand the wonderful benefits education gives to a person outside of getting a job?</p>
<p>I enjoy how most of the posters here seem to agree with the points I’m making. Basically my view that there isn’t emphasis on the “big ideas” and that there’s a lack of engaging challenge is being repeated over and over again by everyone. </p>
<p>Stressedout also makes a good point. A lot of kids just don’t know what hard work is. They don’t realize their potential. The boredom bread by public education makes 30 minutes of distracted studying seem like a lot of work for some. As a result, they just assume all learning is like that. </p>
<p>Salman Khan (the greatest educator alive imo) also makes the point that because of a lack of focus on depth and mastery, many get a Swiss cheese education. Students that otherwise do well, often hit a wall when holes in their knowledge build up. They then assume, “oh well, I guess I’m not smart,” or, “oh well, I guess I’m not a math person” when those holes in knowledge rear their ugly heads in a certain class they fail. </p>
<p>The problem isn’t just with math and science education. It’s also with English and history. History is probably the worst when it comes to over-emphasis on rote memorization. It’s not about memorizing people and dates! History is about being able to analyze cause and effect relationships and understanding motivations behind certain historical figures.
When it comes to English classes, I find that you don’t actually need to read any books even on the AP level. Sparknotes is usually a good enough substitution to reading a book. I’ve found that certain teachers, however, are able to make books interesting with the right attention to detail. Sophomore year and freshman year I was lucky to have an amazing English class in which I had to read EVERY book and I ended up enjoying most of them! However when I took AP English, that same intensity and engagement just wasn’t there. </p>
<p>Grade inflation is also huge. During my graduation, I couldn’t believe how many kids were honored with a “90 or above average.” My dad, who was in the audience and could see the whole crowd of graduates as they stood up in recognition of their “honor” better than I could told me he thought around 70% were honored with the distinction of graduating with an “A” average. It was based on a weighted GPA. Honestly, not to put anyone in my class down, but I was down right surprised that certain people supposedly had A averages when I knew that some of them were B- students (B- students in heavily inflated “honors” classes with a few APs here and there to make them feel even more special). It gives many the impression that they are doing much better than they really are. They aren’t challenged either and that gives off the false impression that with minimal work, they are entitled to their A. As a result, a Swiss cheese education becomes the norm.</p>
<p>I love learning, but I felt that I was actually a very bad student and very bad at school. I think high school is kind of important, but it’s not really that great of a place to learn. Instead of doing homework, I spent my time self-educating instead. I wasn’t a bad student in high school because I didn’t like to learn. It was just that I was lazy and unmotivated. That’s the problem right there.</p>
<p>But I don’t think there’s much of an incentive to work hard in high school. Like I said, I was a terrible student, but I ended up doing ok in terms of colleges. I’m actually going to the same school as the valedictorian and the person who was third in my class. And I guess lots of parents at my school have parents who are kinda stingy, so they would go to the state flagship regardless of how well they did in school.</p>
<p>Strongly disagree. Evidence? My own two kids, but more than that.</p>
<p>I teach community college, and most of the kids I teach would be lumped into that category. However, when I approach them in a language they understand and create an environment that is emotionally supportive they love to learn.</p>
<p>And guess what I teach? Poetry, Shakespeare, all the things kids usually refuse to work with. Occasionally I have a kid who doesn’t want to hack it, but very rarely. In a 30 year career I’ve taught thousands of students who wanted to learn.</p>
<p>I <em>do</em> know my favorite rap song. Respecting the culture of young people is a key ingredient.</p>
<p>@mythmom. Of course kids want to learn! I’m not arguing that they don’t. It’s just that high school creates many illusions that lead to the impression in many that learning is a waste of time. I’ve talked to many of my teachers and I’ve observed my peers well enough to notice that really, they don’t care about school. A desire to learn is innate in all of us . It just isn’t tapped properly by most secondary institutions and many post-secondary institutions as well. Some teachers even seem to pander to laziness. We want to learn, and yet it’s almost as if, we’re taught to not want to learn. I’ve met many closet intellectuals one would usually write off as slackers. </p>
<p>@chaosakita… The world needs free spirits like you. Just do better in school.</p>
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<p>I am trying to learn studying now because I’m going to a hard school. If I went to my state flagship like everyone else, I could probably get away with not studying still. </p>
<p>But I have to say again, there’s no reason for people to work hard in high school. </p>
<p>And I find that if you have a very engaging teacher, you can easily get kids’ attentions and get them to learn. But don’t expect them to study extra for the tests.</p>