<p>
[quote]
It's not the other kids in his class who matter on a scattergram--it's the top AA students who graduated in the last five years. It's worth asking the GC about their acceptance history at his favorite schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are few AA at his school in any one class, so knowlege of the matriculation of them is easy. To my recollection, in the last 5 years, one to Kenyon and one to Penn. That's about it for selective schools.</p>
<p>I am looking for info about scattergrams of "Top AA stdents" as well,although for a gril not a boy. Without derailing the thread, what if yours is the only AA, or the top AA kid, or maybe one of the the top kids, that just hapens to be AA at a school. Surely at least the first tow are not unusual. Does a scattergram tell you anything when you are one of one or two kids at your school with a certain profile?</p>
<p>Hi,
I'm also from Ohio, a minority (African American) dad, and can give you some of my experiences. I have two daughters. One graduated from Harvard undergrad and Columbia Law School. The other just started at OSU on a full tuition scholarship (and a few other $500 to $1k scholarships). I was fairly involved in their application process. I kept track of the dates items were due (both scholarship apps and college apps), and prodded them (they would say pushed) to take practice SATs that I graded, and then reviewed with them. I made sure that any essays were their words - not mine, but I did suggest changes. I think your initial question should not be 'what are the chances' (no one can answer that), but rather how you can improve the chances of your son being accepted, with a reasonable amount of aid, in the college of his choice. For competitive colleges, or competitive scholarships, I think the first thing to do is to think in terms of how the particular college should view your son. If they were to summarize him, as an applicant, in one sentence, what do you want that sentence to say? Here he (and you) have to be realistic on his strengths as an applicant. After that, when your son fills out his activities, writes essays, and short answer responses, they should all be consistent with how you and he feel the decision makers should view him. This is where I typically suggested to my daughters that they tweak things, to assure the whole application would be consistant. Make sure, even if he is very accomplished, that he doesn't come off as too confident in the application essays. If he describes an accomplishment let the reader realize its value, rather than the writer telling the reader. It is best to write essays in a non-formal, almost conversational way. Remember, those in admissions have been reading hundreds of essays, and won't fully appreciate complex prose. Make sure he spell checks and grammar checks, and that the final app contains no errors. Each of my girls applied to about ten local/regional scholarships. Not only did the few thousand bucks extra help, but the essays and activity lists in the scholarship apps were a base for the actual college applications. To help choose the right school, help your son by getting a few College Guides from the library and reviewing. Also, certainly visit the colleges so he gets a feel for them. (If they are at a distance, you can wait to do this between April acceptances and May 1.)</p>
<p>The number of colleges to apply to is difficult to say. My older daughter applied to nine, since they were all very competitive. My youngest just five. The minus of applying to a lot is the application expense, and time, but each subsequent one is easier since you have a lot of saved essays already on your computer. (But, time gets real tight around the deadlines with 6 more applications to mail, or email, not to mention references, etc. before the end of the month.) On the other hand sometimes comparable schools will give vastly different aid, which would say apply to more. Plus, you may be able to say to college X, that he'd like to go there, but college Y offered more aid. If they are comparable schools, college X may 'adjust' their offer if you fax them college Y's fin aid letter. Just make sure he would like to go to the schools he applies to, based upon his research. (Also, he may be looking at 12 now, but some may drop off of the list by the due date.)</p>
<p>"Georgetown=no merit aid."</p>
<p>The same is true of Middlebury and some other colleges on your list.
Will he need merit aid to make college affordable to you? Would he qualify for need-based aid, and would that be enough for you to be comfortable footing the rest of the bill?</p>
<p>Madville,
Be sure he applies to USC before the scholarship deadline of Dec 10[?]. But I have to tell you, USC is very much a pre-professional university and does not offer a strong, well rounded liberal arts education like the LAC's that have been mentioned above. That is the reason my son, who was on a full tuition scholarship at USC, transfered out. Chicago, where my son transfered to, does have some merit scholarships -30 full tuition and around 100 $10,000 scholarships. They have also recently received a major 100 MILL donation to be used to fund undergraduate financial aid.</p>
<p>I'm in the top 1% of AA males too . Will that make admission to some of the most elite colleges easier? I'm wondering how much my race and gender will help me with admissions.</p>
<p>I would think it will be very helpful, but the best way to get an accurate answer at each college is to phone the admissions office. Inquire if one of the Admissions Officers is particularly charged with working for increasing URM representation on that campus, and ask away. Diversity is a stated goal at many colleges and universities, so this should be helpful to your process.</p>
<p>Gapyear'd,
In looking at one of your back posts, I see you have a 28 ACT. How do you know if that's in the top 1% of black males? I have never seen such a specific breakdown of the ACT or SAT even for that matter (though I have seen a racial breakdown for SAT scores).</p>
<p>When it comes to the most elite colleges (and I am referring to schools ranked about the top 12 of LACs and national universities), a 28 ACT is near the bottom of their ranges, and while some students may get in with 28 ACTs, I think that even for black males, such schools would be distant reaches unless the student is a recruited athlete or has other factors making them very desireable. You have nothing to lose by applying, but do make sure that you have match and safety schools that you know you can afford and would be happy attending.</p>
<p>In checking your back posts, I notice you're a Mich. resident who doesn't seem to be planning on applying to any Mich. schools. You are very fortunate to be in a state with some excellent schools. I strongly suggest that you get some applications to Mich.schools, which could serve as safeties/matches. I think that you should apply to UM, and get your application in as early as possible since they are, I think, rolling admission. Other colleges to consider would be MSU, Kalamazoo and if you have nothing against going to a Christian school, Calvin (My husband, a black male, went there and is very happy with the education he received. They have nice need-based aid and merit scholarships. Probably woudl be a safety for you).</p>
<p>Northstarmom,
According to The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, for the class of 2007
1748 black students or 1.2% scored 28 or higher on ACT. <a href="http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index083007.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index083007.html</a>
For the class of 2006, 1544 black students scored 28 or above on the ACT (1.1%) <a href="http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index091406.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index091406.html</a>, so Gapyear'd is probably correct.</p>
<p>I notice that in post #23, the idea of getting a feel or making a good fit in selecting a college was the last issue mentioned in a long post. [Sigh] This is what the college admissions process has come to.</p>
<p>You're correct, but I don't see that as a problem. It's not just the way my post was structured (though I could have placed 'fit' earlier in the post, because it is certainly important), it's how it happens, in sequence. The last thing you do, during April, is select the school that you feel is the best fit. Though, the good fit decision process certainly happens in parallel to the admissions process. Visit a few schools sophomore and junior years, along with senior year. But, the decision doesn't really get intense until April. A student may apply to colleges, and get rejected by the "best fit", or they may not get decent aid. You find this out late in the process. What's most important is to apply to, be accepted, matriculate, and work hard at a reasonable fit school. It's impossible to know before matriculating which one is really the best fit, or even if a particular one is a good fit. What's important is that the student is prepared to do well in the chosen school. The particular one that is chosen in the reasonable range of schools is not that important. Reminds me of a saying: "It's not important that you make best choice, what's important is that you make the best of the choice that you make."</p>
<p>My son was pretty adamant that he fit was less important than academics. Come April though he had to choose just ONE school That's when he went visiting more seriously.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I notice that in post #23, the idea of getting a feel or making a good fit in selecting a college was the last issue mentioned in a long post. [Sigh] This is what the college admissions process has come to.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think I understand where Griff is coming from. If you can't 'afford' the fit or feel, it won't "feel" or "fit" good. I wish I was in the position where my S only had to be concerned about where he felt most comfortable. You have to be more savvy for lack of a better word, to increase either your chance for admission,FA or both. The competition is much more intense and unfortunately in selective school admissions, you have to "play the game."</p>
<p>Sorry, I happen not to fully agree with either of you [but of course I wish Madville's son the utmost success]. Until we, as a society and as parents, make a dent in the atrocious attrition rate of Black males at some elite colleges, we need to emphasize comfort level [good fit, the student's place in the campus community, or whatever you want to call it] much more and significantly EARLY in the process. That doesn't mean that a candidate needs to personally inspect every potential alma mater prior to enrollment.</p>
<p>Huh?</p>
<p>I thought NSM cited stats which suggest that the elite schools do the BEST job of graduating AfAm students?</p>
<p>I'm not sure what LakeWashington is talking about either. Blacks graduate at much higher rates at top universities. There is no atrocious attrition rate at any of the top colleges save Middlebury, Carleton, and the University of Michigan; and that speaks more of those school's social climates than anything else. In fact, in a few top schools (Macalester, Smith, Claremont McKenna, and I believe Pomona) blacks are more likely to graduate than whites. Attrition rates are worst at the low tier universities, not the top.</p>
<p>An update. It's way too early to be too optimistic but yesterday S has received an invite to visit Middlebury! He is also considering an opportunity at Bates. He's excited about it, as he enjoys travelling, so he's taking it as a positive omen that at least he is being courted/considered by some of the selective schools on his list. Hopefully there will be more positive news to report. Thanks to all.</p>
<p>Madville, has your son already considered Bowdoin, and rejected it? I would suggest he look seriously at Bowdoin, too, as they are also looking to increase their minority representation. Colby also.</p>
<p>Just check the stats published each year by The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education: The colleges with the highest graduation rates for black students -- including rates as high as about 95% of black students graduating within 6 years -- are the most elite and competitive colleges in the country: Places like Harvard, Yale, Amherst. At some such colleges, the graduation rates for black students exceed those of white students.</p>
<p>Apparently the most important factor in students' graduating is generosity of need-based financial aid, something that is most likely to exist at the top colleges. Students who have to work up to 30 hours a week , even sell their blood to stay in school while taking out staggering loans (and that was the situation that existed among many students at the 2nd/3rd tier HBCU where I used to teach), may have to drop out due to lack of funds or may flunk out because they don't have time to study.</p>